Population growth key to immigration crisis

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

American employers are the real criminals and the reason why this debate is taking place.

By employing illegal immigrants, this country sends the message to potential workers that it is ok to cross the border illegally. The laws are inadquate and people protest for reform of those laws to give immigrant workers a legal opportunity to do the jobs that American employers want to hire them for.

It may not solve the issue but it is a good start.....and until American employers stop employing workers that are here illegally and we don't do anything to stop it I think we should all shut the hell up.

That mixed message just doesn't work......we don't want you in our country, but if you manage to make it I'll give you $5 an hour to build that deck I've been wanting. That's hypocrisy and the system needs reform.....that's all the protesters are asking for.

I agree with a lot of what you said.

The real test is this, though: Will the (alien, undocumented) protesters agree to go back home, get in line (in the back, of course) and properly apply for a visa? With the understanding that a limited number of visas will be available? With the understanding that if the application is denied, to accept that decision and pursue only lawful paths of resoultion? If not, then there's too much hypocrisy on that end as well and we'll never egt to a solution.

It annoys me when people try to make it only into a race issue.

It's so much easier in 21st century America to argue from the position of the victim. Even if you are one of the offenders. That's why this becomes a race debate all too often. Because those seeking special rights make it so.

[mikeize 0]

Hell yeah, we should freakin outlaw new construction and goddam landscaping. Both a major source of waste and pollution! In my town they tear down beautiful old houses that could be fixed up and replace them with stupid, cheezy, overpriced apt's and mcmansions. They go up like fukcing mushrooms, and normal people can't even afford to live in this "nice, little college town anymore.

-mike

[mercuryroad 0]

American employers are the real criminals and the reason why this debate is taking place.

Agreed. The ideal solution would be to shut down both supply and demand but if shutting down demand is a lot cheaper, that's better than nothing.

Illegal immigrants do not come here for no reason.....they want to work. Take away the work and you solve a decent percent of the problem.....without building a f'ng fence. The only viable solution is to give a legal option for workers to come here and perform the jobs they are already doing now and go after the employers that do not abide by that law. Stop the money and you will stop the problem.

This country doesn't have the balls to do that though and until they do we have nothing to say.

[anya-D 8]

And I thought that before you apply for the work visa you need a proof that you already have an employment in the US

And I thought that before you even get a job in the US, they need you to have a visa before they hire you....

so what is the first thing to do???

[noviademexicano 0]

Here's an article from someone who is supporting the rallies because of our broken immigration system!!

Warning! Only read if you have an open mind and you can understand and relate that not everyone who is protesting is an illegal Mexican!

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=..._id=18171&rfi=6

[mercuryroad 0]

And I thought that before you apply for the work visa you need a proof that you already have an employment in the US

And I thought that before you even get a job in the US, they need you to have a visa before they hire you....

so what is the first thing to do???

People on here will hate this, but we have to forget about trying to deport 12 million people and allow them to fill out some paperwork and stay. The problem is too big so we just have to take one for the team. That only makes sense though if the other measures I mentioned actually happen.

As for your question - American employers should be given the opportunity to petition for a certain number of foreign workers (and possibly cap this number). People that have then applied for work visas in the appropriate category would then be given the opportunity to work here in that field and perform that work legally.

Employers that do not comply should be faced with outrageous fines......hit them where they care.

This solution gives immigrant workers an opportunity to do the jobs that American employers want them to do and makes it legal on both sides......for the employer and the employee. Everybody wins. We get the employment to fill our needs and immigrant workers get a legal opportunity to fufill those needs.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

People on here will hate this, but we have to forget about trying to deport 12 million people and allow them to fill out some paperwork and stay. The problem is too big so we just have to take one for the team. That only makes sense though if the other measures I mentioned actually happen.

We've been down that road before. Didn't work too well as evidenced by the recent situation.

What I think needs to happen is something like this: Border protection ought to be tightened asap. There needs to be an assessment of how many foreign workers we really need in the country. Then we need to come up with a process to have x number of work visa available each year with a simplified process the first couple of years to be able to handle the first big wave. Those visa ought to be made available at US Consulates worldwide to offer equal opportunity and to spread the processing burden.

Then, there needs to be a "window of opportunity" for those here illegally to go back home and apply for one of the available visa. Only those that go and apply will have a shot. No deportations - voluntary leave w/o repercussions on the legal re-entry if a visa is granted. Come the second or third year when there's a good supply of foreign labor on visa, you start cracking down on employers that still hire people w/o proper documentation. Those illegals that didn't take advantage of the "window of opportunity" will be subject to deportation and ban on re-entry.

It won't get everyone back that's here already. But such is the nature of an approach that is not an amnesty.

[mercuryroad 0]

People on here will hate this, but we have to forget about trying to deport 12 million people and allow them to fill out some paperwork and stay. The problem is too big so we just have to take one for the team. That only makes sense though if the other measures I mentioned actually happen.

We've been down that road before. Didn't work too well as evidenced by the recent situation.

What I think needs to happen is something like this: Border protection ought to be tightened asap. There needs to be an assessment of how many foreign workers we really need in the country. Then we need to come up with a process to have x number of work visa available each year with a simplified process the first couple of years to be able to handle the first big wave. Those visa ought to be made available at US Consulates worldwide to offer equal opportunity and to spread the processing burden.

Then, there needs to be a "window of opportunity" for those here illegally to go back home and apply for one of the available visa. Only those that go and apply will have a shot. No deportations - voluntary leave w/o repercussions on the legal re-entry if a visa is granted. Come the second or third year when there's a good supply of foreign labor on visa, you start cracking down on employers that still hire people w/o proper documentation. Those illegals that didn't take advantage of the "window of opportunity" will be subject to deportation and ban on re-entry.

It won't get everyone back that's here already. But such is the nature of an approach that is not an amnesty.

That solution did not work because we didn't enforce existing laws as the article that yzuniga posted point out.

Given that, what you propose sounds reasonable to me......

The combination of these two thoughts is the only way (I believe) to solve this problem. It provides fairness on all sides and no more gray area. With a realistic system in place, I think you can credibly enforce the law by eliminating excuses and punishing American employers and foreign employees that do not comply.

The largest issue will be the people that are already here.

There ya go....issue solved and we can all go home.

[anya-D 8]

People on here will hate this, but we have to forget about trying to deport 12 million people and allow them to fill out some paperwork and stay. The problem is too big so we just have to take one for the team. That only makes sense though if the other measures I mentioned actually happen.

We've been down that road before. Didn't work too well as evidenced by the recent situation.

What I think needs to happen is something like this: Border protection ought to be tightened asap. There needs to be an assessment of how many foreign workers we really need in the country. Then we need to come up with a process to have x number of work visa available each year with a simplified process the first couple of years to be able to handle the first big wave. Those visa ought to be made available at US Consulates worldwide to offer equal opportunity and to spread the processing burden.

Then, there needs to be a "window of opportunity" for those here illegally to go back home and apply for one of the available visa. Only those that go and apply will have a shot. No deportations - voluntary leave w/o repercussions on the legal re-entry if a visa is granted. Come the second or third year when there's a good supply of foreign labor on visa, you start cracking down on employers that still hire people w/o proper documentation. Those illegals that didn't take advantage of the "window of opportunity" will be subject to deportation and ban on re-entry.

It won't get everyone back that's here already. But such is the nature of an approach that is not an amnesty.

that's sounds good .. just that the normal work visa that i've read some time ago (as i wanted to applied for) have some requirement that I do not meet... only certain typ of professions are allow to apply for the work visa ... so if that still the requirement then it wont solve anything......

by the way.. i'm not pro or anti-illegal...justwant to see everybody happy..

Edited April 17, 2006 by anya-D

[mercuryroad 0]

People on here will hate this, but we have to forget about trying to deport 12 million people and allow them to fill out some paperwork and stay. The problem is too big so we just have to take one for the team. That only makes sense though if the other measures I mentioned actually happen.

We've been down that road before. Didn't work too well as evidenced by the recent situation.

What I think needs to happen is something like this: Border protection ought to be tightened asap. There needs to be an assessment of how many foreign workers we really need in the country. Then we need to come up with a process to have x number of work visa available each year with a simplified process the first couple of years to be able to handle the first big wave. Those visa ought to be made available at US Consulates worldwide to offer equal opportunity and to spread the processing burden.

Then, there needs to be a "window of opportunity" for those here illegally to go back home and apply for one of the available visa. Only those that go and apply will have a shot. No deportations - voluntary leave w/o repercussions on the legal re-entry if a visa is granted. Come the second or third year when there's a good supply of foreign labor on visa, you start cracking down on employers that still hire people w/o proper documentation. Those illegals that didn't take advantage of the "window of opportunity" will be subject to deportation and ban on re-entry.

It won't get everyone back that's here already. But such is the nature of an approach that is not an amnesty.

that's sounds good .. just that the normal work visa that i've read some time ago (as i wanted to applied for) have some requirement that I do not meet... only certain typ of professions are allow to apply for the work visa ... so if that still the requirement then it wont solve anything......

Those requirements would have to be lifted. No more preference. The people who are coming here illegally are not doctors and lawyers (speaking in general terms of course).

[anya-D 8]

Those requirements would have to be lifted. No more preference. The people who are coming here illegally are not doctors and lawyers (speaking in general terms of course).

[Traviesa 0]

There ya go....issue solved and we can all go home.

REALLY???? Oh, you didn't mean home from work...

[Sister Fracas 5]

hmmmm...

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationwor...world-headlines

Many illegal immigrants shun protest

Non-Hispanics fear notice, say Congress ignores their needs

LOS ANGELES // As a Pakistani, Hamid Khan stood out among the Hispanics he marched alongside at a recent immigration protest. When he told a demonstrator where he was from, the man asked what he was doing there.

Khan was surprised.

"I said, 'Look, there are non-Latino groups who are also suffering under these laws,'" said Khan, 49, a commercial pilot and director of an advocacy group called the South Asian Network.

Hispanics, the nation's largest immigrant group, are leading the movement to demand a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants and defeat legislation that would criminalize them.

Khan's experience provides a glimpse into the ambiguous role non-Hispanic immigrants play in a public debate that has yet to fully include them.

While some Asian, European and Middle Eastern immigrants support calls for sweeping immigration reform, many here illegally have shied from the public debate either because they feel Congress has overlooked the needs of their communities or simply because they're afraid to come forward.

Forty-eight percent of the nation's 34 million immigrants come from Asia, Africa, the Middle East and countries such as Canada, with the remainder coming from Latin America, according to the Census Bureau. But of the estimated 11 million illegal immigrants, 78 percent come from Latin America, according to the Pew Hispanic Center. The next-largest undocumented population comes from Asia, with 13 percent.

While all illegal immigrants could benefit from proposals in Congress that would give them a chance at citizenship, many non-Hispanic immigrants say lawmakers should take into account their reasons for coming to the country illegally.

"In the Latino community, people come here illegally for jobs," said H. Chang, a 23-year-old Korean college student who asked that her full name not be used because her parents are living in Los Angeles illegally. "For us, a whole family comes here for a student, and many stay illegally."

Discussions on increasing visas have focused on guest worker programs for laborers, not people such as Chang's parents.

For Vietnamese immigrants, a central complaint is the waiting period before relatives are allowed to join them, which can be 10 years, said Duc Nguyen, 31, a Vietnamese health worker who lives in Orange, Calif.

He said he doesn't see Congress considering that aspect. "Why are they [lawmakers] only doing a half-reform?" asked Nguyen, who said he went to a few demonstrations but only to watch.

A bill passed by the Senate Judiciary Committee last month, which some Hispanic advocacy groups called a good compromise because it included steps to citizenship for illegal immigrants, also would fortify the borders, expand immigration detention centers and speed deportation proceedings.

That sent shivers through communities of Middle Eastern immigrants, who have felt scrutinized since the Sept. 11 attacks.

"That's part of the reason our community hasn't rushed out to protest," said Sabiha Khan, spokeswoman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Southern California. "They are afraid of what will happen to them with immigration reform."

Still, the council and many activist groups representing non-Hispanic immigrants have encouraged participation in the marches, in solidarity with others and to ensure that their own voices are heard.

"If we just look at the Latino community coming out, we are missing the bigger picture," said Eun Sook Lee, director of the National Korean American Service and Education Consortium.

Hispanic groups have been contacting other immigrant groups to boost participation in the next national protest, planned for May 1, said Nativo Lopez, president of the Mexican-American Political Association.

During nationwide rallies last week, Haitians, Filipinos, Indians and others participated in New York. A Korean drum band led about 7,000 protesters through the streets of Los Angeles.

That hasn't persuaded J. Park, 17, an illegal immigrant from Korea, to join the movement. "I don't want that to be known," said Park, who asked that his full name not be used. "Going back to Korea is not an option."

Edited April 17, 2006 by Frances