illegal immigrants (another poll)

[peejay 327]

Illegal presence is not a crime. It's a civil offense.

Who gives a sh*t whether it is criminal or civil. Illegal aliens have absolutely no right to illegal work in the USA. They are subject to deportation and if they still don't take the hint...if they EWI again it is a felony. Which carries some extra sanctions in addition to another deportation.

Take a look at Operation Streamline. Not exactly a vacation to Disneyland or a f*cking joke:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=96970

[almaty 19]

yes no right, but there are plenty of jobs for them..as the compan ies have NO right to employ them..either

[sarah and hicham 3]

if you worked at a place and KNEW there were multiple illegal immigrants working there, would you turn them in?

explain.

Is that why you were forced to quit your job? Did you turn someone in?

I think you lost your way.....the MEAN...sorry MENA board is that way ------------>

Ummm, what?

[NavarreMan 10]

Illegal presence is not a crime. It's a civil offense.

An appropriate analogy would be, if I knew someone possessed alcohol in a state park that prohibited it, would I report them? No. I would not.

Actually if you think about it, a more appropriate analogy would be a trespassing analogy.

In reality, the definition of trespass, is an uninvited, unwelcome, and unauthorized act which violates the person or property of another. Trespass was originally a law meant to prohibit hunting and fishing on the land of another without having first requested permission. (extracted from www.ifactfinders.net)

Trespassing, depending which state you are in or the severity or the offense, can be a civil offense or a criminal offense. I can guarantee that if you hop the fence at my local military installation you can explain the civility of your offense to the guy on the other end of an M-16 and if you run they will shoot you dead, the sign says so.

[chri'stina 190]

For those who don't care about reporting illegal workers, genuine questions:

Do you not care that they are getting across the border illegally and creating false info to work or live here? (And 'they' doesn't mean only people from Mexico, we have two borders not one and it's not only Mexican ppl crossing over.)

Or do you care about the illegal crossings and unsecured borders but don't care once they are here and working?

Or do you just not care at all about illegal immigration into the US, no matter who the person is who is coming in?

That's the thing I don't get. I can sympathize with someone trying to make a better life here and I don't want to ruin someone's life and I don't go around reporting ppl, but at the same time there are laws for reasons and who decides who gets away with being here illegally and who doesn't? I thought visa laws decided that, the same ones we have followed so we don't have to be in a state of paranoia about having an undocumented loved one here. So I can't say I would never report it, and I can't say I'd always report it. I don't think someone is a snitch if they felt they had to report it.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

For those who don't care about reporting illegal workers, genuine questions:

Do you not care that they are getting across the border illegally and creating false info to work or live here? (And 'they' doesn't mean only people from Mexico, we have two borders not one and it's not only Mexican ppl crossing over.)

Or do you care about the illegal crossings and unsecured borders but don't care once they are here and working?

Or do you just not care at all about illegal immigration into the US, no matter who the person is who is coming in?

That's the thing I don't get. I can sympathize with someone trying to make a better life here and I don't want to ruin someone's life and I don't go around reporting ppl, but at the same time there are laws for reasons and who decides who gets away with being here illegally and who doesn't? I thought visa laws decided that, the same ones we have followed so we don't have to be in a state of paranoia about having an undocumented loved one here. So I can't say I would never report it, and I can't say I'd always report it. I don't think someone is a snitch if they felt they had to report it.

It's not that I don't care...it's a matter of degree and priority. IMO, we will always have people immigrating here without going through the proper channels. As long as they coming here, finding ways to make a living, integrating into society then I don't see the big deal. I don't see anyone doing so as diabolically and intentionally wanting to skirt our immigration laws. I'd rather we make it so easy to get a work visa here, that nobody would ever immigrate illegally.

[peejay 327]

yes no right, but there are plenty of jobs for them..as the compan ies have NO right to employ them..either

I agree...the companies have absolutely no right to knowingly hire them. These so called "undocumented workers" have all kinds of counterfeit and stolen documents to get these jobs and give the employers a free ride when their illegal workers are arrested for violating our work laws (along with a laundry list of other laws).

These crooks have done everything in their dirty little bag of tricks to block implementation of the employment verification system promised in the 1986 and 1996 so called immigration reform legislations that our politicians passed into law.

These same companies now have a pending lawsuit and restraining order to prohibit DHS from implementing a program to identify "no match" Social Security numbers and require them to correct the error or fire obviously illegal workers. Surprised?

The US House and Senate both have bills pending to mandate and require employers to participate in employment eligibility verification with existing databases (as was already promised and mandated in 1986 & 1996). I'm sure there will be opposition from these crooked companies to that too.

These companies know all too well this would put an end to the free ride of hiring illegal aliens and not having to pay the price themselves for doing it.

Hit the illegal employers, the illegal workers, and quit handing out repeated mass amnesty rewards to the illegal aliens and the crooks that hire them. It will effectively end most illegal immigration in the USA.

[Welshcookie 17]

if you worked at a place and KNEW there were multiple illegal immigrants working there, would you turn them in?

explain.

Is that why you were forced to quit your job? Did you turn someone in?

I think you lost your way.....the MEAN...sorry MENA board is that way ------------>

Ummm, what?

I think you lost your way.....the MEAN...sorry MENA board is that way ------------>

[garya505 2]

For those would not report illegal workers, does it bother you to know that since they all came into the country without background checks, some of them have criminal records for things like robbery, rape, or maybe even murder? Sure, it may be a small percentage, but a small percentage of 12 to 15 million is quite large, no?

[peejay 327]

I'd rather we make it so easy to get a work visa here, that nobody would ever immigrate illegally.

There is a lot of enforcement work to do and a lot more credibility that needs to be established before the American people get suckered into the myth of so called "guestworkers". There's no such thing as a "guestworker" in the USA.

The same people that whine about deporting illegal aliens for breaking the law will cry just as loud about guestworkers being deported for breaking the law. An illegal alien is a guestworker that breaks the terms of their visa. We have millions of visa overstayers already. About 6 to 8+ million of them. An illegal alien by any other name is still an illegal alien. Why add more supply?

I don't buy your logic (illogic).

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'd rather we make it so easy to get a work visa here, that nobody would ever immigrate illegally.

There is a lot of enforcement work to do and a lot more credibility that needs to be established before the American people get suckered into the myth of so called "guestworkers". There's no such thing as a "guestworker" in the USA.

The same people that whine about deporting illegal aliens for breaking the law will cry just as loud about guestworkers being deported for breaking the law. An illegal alien is a guestworker that breaks the terms of their visa. We have millions of visa overstayers already. About 6 to 8+ million of them. An illegal alien by any other name is still an illegal alien. Why add more supply?

I don't buy your logic (illogic).

Hypothetically speaking (if our immigration policies were different), peejay - if a foreigner is gainfully employed, why not let them get their work visas renewed or offer them a pathway to citizenship?

[garya505 2]

I'd rather we make it so easy to get a work visa here, that nobody would ever immigrate illegally.

There is a lot of enforcement work to do and a lot more credibility that needs to be established before the American people get suckered into the myth of so called "guestworkers". There's no such thing as a "guestworker" in the USA.

The same people that whine about deporting illegal aliens for breaking the law will cry just as loud about guestworkers being deported for breaking the law. An illegal alien is a guestworker that breaks the terms of their visa. We have millions of visa overstayers already. About 6 to 8+ million of them. An illegal alien by any other name is still an illegal alien. Why add more supply?

I don't buy your logic (illogic).

Actually we have plenty of guest workers here now, the problem is that most of them came into the country with no screening and no background checks so we have a mess.

The truth is that we need a vastly expanded guest worker program but most of our political people don't have the balls to say it openly for fear of sounding racist.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'd rather we make it so easy to get a work visa here, that nobody would ever immigrate illegally.

There is a lot of enforcement work to do and a lot more credibility that needs to be established before the American people get suckered into the myth of so called "guestworkers". There's no such thing as a "guestworker" in the USA.

The same people that whine about deporting illegal aliens for breaking the law will cry just as loud about guestworkers being deported for breaking the law. An illegal alien is a guestworker that breaks the terms of their visa. We have millions of visa overstayers already. About 6 to 8+ million of them. An illegal alien by any other name is still an illegal alien. Why add more supply?

I don't buy your logic (illogic).

Actually we have plenty of guest workers here now, the problem is that most of them came into the country with no screening and no background checks so we have a mess.

The truth is that we need a vastly expanded guest worker program but most of our political people don't have the balls to say it openly for fear of sounding racist.

In the scope of global economics, it doesn't make sense that we can export our jobs, but not import labor on the same scale. We either fully protect American jobs by forcing US companies to stay on US soil or we let the great experiment of free trade work by allowing a free flow of labor to come into this country.

Edited November 21, 2007 by Mister Fancypants

[natty bumppo 297]

I'd rather we make it so easy to get a work visa here, that nobody would ever immigrate illegally.

There is a lot of enforcement work to do and a lot more credibility that needs to be established before the American people get suckered into the myth of so called "guestworkers". There's no such thing as a "guestworker" in the USA.

The same people that whine about deporting illegal aliens for breaking the law will cry just as loud about guestworkers being deported for breaking the law. An illegal alien is a guestworker that breaks the terms of their visa. We have millions of visa overstayers already. About 6 to 8+ million of them. An illegal alien by any other name is still an illegal alien. Why add more supply?

I don't buy your logic (illogic).

Actually we have plenty of guest workers here now, the problem is that most of them came into the country with no screening and no background checks so we have a mess.

The truth is that we need a vastly expanded guest worker program but most of our political people don't have the balls to say it openly for fear of sounding racist.

In the scope of global economics, it doesn't make sense that we can export our jobs, but not import labor on the same scale. We either fully protect American jobs by forcing US companies to stay on US soil or we let the great experiment of free trade work by allowing a free flow of labor to come into this country.

did you really say this ?

export jobs .... and import labor? Is this to fill the jobs that were exported?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'd rather we make it so easy to get a work visa here, that nobody would ever immigrate illegally.

There is a lot of enforcement work to do and a lot more credibility that needs to be established before the American people get suckered into the myth of so called "guestworkers". There's no such thing as a "guestworker" in the USA.

The same people that whine about deporting illegal aliens for breaking the law will cry just as loud about guestworkers being deported for breaking the law. An illegal alien is a guestworker that breaks the terms of their visa. We have millions of visa overstayers already. About 6 to 8+ million of them. An illegal alien by any other name is still an illegal alien. Why add more supply?

I don't buy your logic (illogic).

Actually we have plenty of guest workers here now, the problem is that most of them came into the country with no screening and no background checks so we have a mess.

The truth is that we need a vastly expanded guest worker program but most of our political people don't have the balls to say it openly for fear of sounding racist.

In the scope of global economics, it doesn't make sense that we can export our jobs, but not import labor on the same scale. We either fully protect American jobs by forcing US companies to stay on US soil or we let the great experiment of free trade work by allowing a free flow of labor to come into this country.

did you really say this ?

export jobs .... and import labor? Is this to fill the jobs that were exported?

It's why you won't find Free Trade guru's being fundamentally against open immigration. Just like the Free Market isn't truly free as long as we continue to have corporate subsidies. The 'free' part of such economic ideologies is to allow a free flow of goods and services. I'm not in favor of anything free without it being fair, so I can understand the impact it can have on U.S. jobs and our economy as a whole, however, since we've already have such a system in place, advocating that the government should interfere or impede upon such a system is contrary to the ideology that many here supposedly embrace. You can't really call yourself a free market advocate if you are not. In other words, you can't have your cake and eat it too.