we got denied

[rebeccajo 14]

Marty -

Is it possible your lawyer wasn't able to help you because you weren't entirely forthcoming with him?

For the consulate to have given you the 601 waiver to complete, as well as the 212 - well, seems to me there's more going on here than a turnback at the POE.

Unless you don't understand the documents they gave you at the interview. If that is the case, my apologies.

[Penguin_ie 5,996]

Marty -

Is it possible your lawyer wasn't able to help you because you weren't entirely forthcoming with him?

For the consulate to have given you the 601 waiver to complete, as well as the 212 - well, seems to me there's more going on here than a turnback at the POE. Unless you don't understand the documents they gave you at the interview. If that is the case, my apologies.

Lawyers aren't all perfect, and yes, some are only out to get your money. I am sorry if you got one of those.

But the above poster also has a point, plus the other thing I thought about is: you mentioned you only found out a couple of days ago what the codes in your passport meant. Did your lawyer every see your passport/ did you point out the codes to him and ask him what they meant? If not, and he had only your story of a turn back at POE to go by, he would not have realised you had a ban, the same way you didn't realise until you researched those writings in your passport.

[manda 1]

Marty -

Is it possible your lawyer wasn't able to help you because you weren't entirely forthcoming with him?

For the consulate to have given you the 601 waiver to complete, as well as the 212 - well, seems to me there's more going on here than a turnback at the POE. Unless you don't understand the documents they gave you at the interview. If that is the case, my apologies.

Lawyers aren't all perfect, and yes, some are only out to get your money. I am sorry if you got one of those.

But the above poster also has a point, plus the other thing I thought about is: you mentioned you only found out a couple of days ago what the codes in your passport meant. Did your lawyer every see your passport/ did you point out the codes to him and ask him what they meant? If not, and he had only your story of a turn back at POE to go by, he would not have realised you had a ban, the same way you didn't realise until you researched those writings in your passport.

Obviously Yes I showed my passport with the codes on to each lawyer that we seen, they photocopied the page with the codes on. We seen 3 lawyers to ask what the codes meant, none of them were able to tell us exactly for some reason. The lawyer we eventually hired to do the cr1 visa said back in november said we may need a waiver to be approved. He asked for $100 so he could do some sort of inquiry with homeland security to check my record. He came back to us and said. No we don't need a waiver, just a immigrant visa.

The codes that were entered into my passport back in november and the allegations they have against me are all false. They talked to my then girlfriend, came back to me, and lied about what she said, claiming she said that i had a job, an apartment ready to move into and that i was visiting her just to get married. They were constantly calling my then girlfriend trying to weave a story of falsehoods together between her and me. We stuck to the truth saying I was simply visiting her, I had 10,000 euro with bank statements to prove it, a 6 month visitor visa etc. Why the F would I want to work there when Im on a long holiday. Also why the F would I want to overstay my visitor visa and have future problems just like this. We did everything correctly and by the book. The POE I entered was Detroit metro airport (DTW). Btw, I only found out what these codes meant a few days ago through my own research, nobody was able to tell me before

[gwenneh 7]

The codes that were entered into my passport back in november and the allegations they have against me are all false.

You keep saying this. I understand that you're frustrated at the moment, but this really is the least of your problems right now.

We seen 3 lawyers to ask what the codes meant, none of them were able to tell us exactly for some reason.

This should have been the clue to you that these were not lawyers you should be hiring. A real immigration lawyer would be able to tell you what those codes mean and what the repercussions are *before* you hire them. These are common codes; justified or not, the POE does not just write things in people's passports arbitrarily. Someone, somewhere felt that you represented a security risk - for whatever reason, again, justified or not.

Frankly, entering with a visitor visa, 10,000 Euro, and a one way ticket raises a number of red flags for immigrant intent! I'm not surprised that someone picked up on this. You had nothing to prove your ties to your home country, a large amount of money, and a one-way ticket, FFS!

Whether or not you feel that Detroit's decision is justified is completely irrelevant at this point - these things are in your passport, on your record, and you have to work around them. You need a good attorney who specializes in waivers, because nothing you say or do and no amount of "But it's a lie!" is going to cause them to go "Oh, really? We're sorry about that, here you go, have a visa. Those wacky border officers, they lie all the time!" You need to stop being fixated on the fact that you feel it's unjustified and start getting your waiver together if you want to salvage your case!

I don't say this to be harsh, but because you have a limited amount of time to appeal, and every day you spend in "But I didn't do anything wrong!" is another day gone for you.

[rebeccajo 14]

Gwen666 is 100% correct in what she is telling you, Marty. Any lawyer who wasn't able to come up with what the 'codes' meant wasn't worth hiring, especially since the 'codes' are actually sections of the INA.

Another point you are missing is how fruitless it is for you to now phone Detroit POE and ask them what is on your "record". I've made phone calls to two or three ports of entry in my immigration 'career'. Border agents don't interpret the law - they enforce it. Furthermore and as we've mentioned to you before, border agents don't levy the bar. They inspect visitors and they cite violations of entry. Plus, they probably don't have your entire 'record' anyway. The IT functions of our current border control system is not yet that comprehensive.

A friend of mine who knows quite a bit about waivers gave me the story below to pass on to you. It is not her personal story but a case she is familiar with. The couple was granted their waiver. My friend also told me that if you truly believe these charges to be unjustified, you should fight them with the waiver. But she also added this - you definitely need a lawyer to assist you in your endeavor; you should expect the process to be lengthy and costly; and you should anticipate possible failure because the charge of misrepresentation is difficult to beat.

"My fiance was denied entry to the US from mexico when he was attempting to enter with his tourist visa. They allowed him to withdraw his application for admission. They also told him that he had (1) no ban on his record because of this denial (2) he was free to apply again for a visa in one year.......Luckily I didn't take the legal advice of the border agent 100% and we spent the few months leading up to our initial interview preparing a waiver and hardship letter just in case. At his interview we were informed that he did have a ban and he would need the waiver. That the border agent made notations in my fiances file that he had "misrepresented" himself by working on his tourist visa.....So to make a long story short, we needed the waiver and are now ending our process of waiting, but at least we were prepared with a HSL and everything when told we were in need of one and eligible to file it. I suggest you do the same, because you never know what they actually put on your record in these incidents. But, also know that by preparing early and giving yourself plenty of time to gather documentation and evidence, you are making your approval chances much higher. The key to a successful waiver is good preparation, organization, documentation and honesty......."

Edited November 17, 2007 by rebeccajo

[rika60607 215]

Ha! So apparently POE officers DO lie to denied travelers, and probably do so to encourage the unsuspecting victim to withdraw and return at own expense.

Eeeenteresting. I am so glad I did not try to enter the US on my then current B1/B2 visa after marriage. Decision on whether someone is just visiting or may have intention to stay is purely up to the POE officer, hence attempt to enter the US after applying for immigration is like playing Russian roulette, more or less.

(Must warn others)

Rika

They also told him that he had (1) no ban on his record because of this denial (2) he was free to apply again for a visa in one year.......

At his interview we were informed that he did have a ban and he would need the waiver.

[rebeccajo 14]

Ha! So apparently POE officers DO lie to denied travelers, and probably do so to encourage the unsuspecting victim to withdraw and return at own expense.

Eeeenteresting. I am so glad I did not try to enter the US on my then current B1/B2 visa after marriage. Decision on whether someone is just visiting or may have intention to stay is purely up to the POE officer, hence attempt to enter the US after applying for immigration is like playing Russian roulette, more or less.

(Must warn others)

Rika

They also told him that he had (1) no ban on his record because of this denial (2) he was free to apply again for a visa in one year.......

At his interview we were informed that he did have a ban and he would need the waiver.

They don't lie. They aren't lawyers who interpret laws - they enforce laws. There's a big big difference.

But you are 100% correct that it is purely up to the POE officer as to whether or not someone enters the US.

[rika60607 215]

The question of "is it possible/safe to travel after filing I-130/I-129F" comes up on VJ very often. So far, general opinion was that even if you are denied, it does not cause any major problems. Now we see two cases that demonstrate serious consequences.

So do you think those POE officers are not aware of consequences they cause by putting all those codes on one's visa? Is that it? They think "Oh, that's nothing, just a code"?

[rebeccajo 14]

The question of "is it possible/safe to travel after filing I-130/I-129F" comes up on VJ very often. So far, general opinion was that even if you are denied, it does not cause any major problems. Now we see two cases that demonstrate serious consequences.

So do you think those POE officers are not aware of consequences they cause by putting all those codes on one's visa? Is that it? They think "Oh, that's nothing, just a code"?

Ok, firstly....

They are not 'codes'. They are legal sections of the INA - Immigration and Nationality Act - that define an immigration violation.

Secondly-

The OP wasn't traveling after filing. He was merely traveling. That point though is really moot to the third one.

Which is - where did you come to the conclusion the general concensus is a turnback is no problem? It ALWAYS depends on what (if anything) is entered into the passport.

And finally - I don't believe the POE officers give one damn what the results are of making a notation into a passport or into any log of passenger entry. They have a job to do and they take it seriously. There used to be a member here who was a former border agent - his writings were very illuminating.

Edited November 17, 2007 by rebeccajo

[manda 1]

thanks for your replies Rebeccajo, you seem like a very competent person unlike the lawyers I dealt with in canada.

Perhaps I am missing something but there is still one small thing I do not understand:

They gave me 2 waivers to be filed, I212 and I601

The instructions on I212 says

"Persons who voluntarily departed from the US without the expense of the US government and without an order of removal or deportation having been entered...are permitted to reapply without filing this application"

Detroit POE did not order me to be removed, they did not deport me, or put a 212a9ai on my passport.

I "voluntarily withdrew my application to enter the US" and paid my own airfare back.

I called detroit dhs and they acknowledged that I "voluntarily withdrew my application to enter the US"

Therefore am I supposed to file this I212 or what?

[rika60607 215]

I was searching topics about travel after application submission... so that was my impression after reading more than a dozen of threads. I could have missed something. I saw people saying they were turned away at the US border and that caused no problems at the interview. I saw nothing about problems. So at least for me, problems as such are major news!..

All right, so according to you, POE officer makes incorrect statements about consequences of entry denial (while stamping/signing travelers passport/visa with codes/legal sections of INA), all the while he/she does not care about consequences of his/her actions to the traveler. POE officer is happy he/she prevented a suspicious person from entry to the US. Suspicions are not necessarily correct.

This is just great.

Ok, firstly....

They are not 'codes'. They are legal sections of the INA - Immigration and Nationality Act - that define an immigration violation.

Secondly-

The OP wasn't traveling after filing. He was merely traveling. That point though is really moot to the third one.

Which is - where did you come to the conclusion the general concensus is a turnback is no problem? It ALWAYS depends on what (if anything) is entered into the passport.

And finally - I don't believe the POE officers give one damn what the results are of making a notation into a passport or into any log of passenger entry. They have a job to do and they take it seriously. There used to be a member here who was a former border agent - his writings were very illuminating.

[rebeccajo 14]

thanks for your replies Rebeccajo, you seem like a very competent person unlike the lawyers I dealt with in canada.

Perhaps I am missing something but there is still one small thing I do not understand:

They gave me 2 waivers to be filed, I212 and I601

The instructions on I212 says

"Persons who voluntarily departed from the US without the expense of the US government and without an order of removal or deportation having been entered...are permitted to reapply without filing this application"

Detroit POE did not order me to be removed, they did not deport me, or put a 212a9ai on my passport.

I "voluntarily withdrew my application to enter the US" and paid my own airfare back.

I called detroit dhs and they acknowledged that I "voluntarily withdrew my application to enter the US"

Therefore am I supposed to file this I212 or what?

Marty, I'm glad to have helped you. But I'm not sure what you are supposed to file. From what you have told us, I believe the 212 waiver is for the misrepresentation. I'm more confused about why you were given the 601. I mentioned to you earlier that this is far from my area of expertise.

I would suggest you read at immigrate2us.net. And you definitely need a lawyer. One who not only knows the law but who specializes in waivers. You might ask to see their credentials insofar as membership in an organization of professionals whose practice is largely immigration law, such as the AILA.

You need to be COMPLETELY forthcoming with your attorney. They need to take time with you regarding your entire history in the US.

Good luck to you.

Edited November 17, 2007 by rebeccajo

[rebeccajo 14]

Ryka, I never said they make incorrect statements. They simply aren't VERSED in the consequences. Oh well, some are of course - those who have been at it a while. CBP officers aren't the ones anybody should be asking about the consequences of denial. You need to read and research for yourself, and if it's YOUR problem, you probably need to ask an attorney.

Let me tell you (briefly if I can) about an experience I had with border control. My husband and I had to go across an airport terminal the outbound side to meet with border officials regarding a document. Due to modern-day security at airports, we couldn't just tell the TSA officers we had a meeting with CBP - CBP had to come and collect us at the terminal gates.

You would have been shocked to see two CBP officers standing there waiting as lowly TSA guards permitted us through the gates. And the conversation between employees of the two agencies was actually quite comical. They clearly did not know each others procedures or rules, and they clearly were not going to cross any lines or overstep any bounds of the other's territory.

I share this with you so you can have some understanding of the larger scope of the Department of Homeland Security. Each branch (USCIS/DOS/CBP/ICE/ etc. etc.) are SEPARATE and UNIQUE entities ON PURPOSE. While they are under the umbrella of one department of our government, they each operate separately and independently in order to carry out a checks and balance system that is SUPPOSED to throw a blanket of security over our nation.

As far as what a border officer might do, there is always in any profession abuses of power. There are also missteps made by the visiting alien out of fear of authority, and there can be innocent missteps made by the alien that are misinterpreted by the officer. In cases like that, the officer would naturally err on the side of what he/she has been trained to do......control the border. It is not their job to be concerned about the consequences of that alien's future plans with the US. Border officers deal with the here and now, as they should.

I was searching topics about travel after application submission... so that was my impression after reading more than a dozen of threads. I could have missed something. I saw people saying they were turned away at the US border and that caused no problems at the interview. I saw nothing about problems. So at least for me, problems as such are major news!..

All right, so according to you, POE officer makes incorrect statements about consequences of entry denial (while stamping/signing travelers passport/visa with codes/legal sections of INA), all the while he/she does not care about consequences of his/her actions to the traveler. POE officer is happy he/she prevented a suspicious person from entry to the US. Suspicions are not necessarily correct.

This is just great.

Ok, firstly....

They are not 'codes'. They are legal sections of the INA - Immigration and Nationality Act - that define an immigration violation.

Secondly-

The OP wasn't traveling after filing. He was merely traveling. That point though is really moot to the third one.

Which is - where did you come to the conclusion the general concensus is a turnback is no problem? It ALWAYS depends on what (if anything) is entered into the passport.

And finally - I don't believe the POE officers give one damn what the results are of making a notation into a passport or into any log of passenger entry. They have a job to do and they take it seriously. There used to be a member here who was a former border agent - his writings were very illuminating.

Edited November 17, 2007 by rebeccajo

[bowflex 0]

It is definitely very hard for some people to understand, but after my wife's family's case that spanned over 15 years here in the United States, I can definitely believe that several departments of the government abuse their power, most notably Homeland Security. While not all of these injustices can be corrected, you can definitely fight tooth and nail if you believe there was some abuse in your case.

When my wife and I went to her interview in Montreal back in April, the Consul told us we'd need to file a 601 waiver, and although we disputed what she told us over and over again, even with documentation, we left Montreal with no visa and instructions to file the waiver. Luckily we had hired a lawyer here in Michigan for the entire process, and within two weeks of my wife's denial we had a packet of information sent back to the Consulate as well as numerous requests to speak with the Consulate from my state senator. It took another two months, but my wife did come to the States on June 5 of this year. My main point is that even though we came across a Consul that had absolutely no idea what she was doing and seemed to enjoy telling us she wouldn't argue with us and that she was completely right, we fought hard and got her decision over-turned.

Your best bet is to hire an immigration attorney and have him inquire about what exactly is on your record. Make sure that he knows absolutely everything about your case and you should get a correct answer. I hope this all works out for you and I wish you nothing but the best.

[Alt name 1]

Im curious about the 1-way ticket (1) month before you got married. You really intended to return, right?

Curious.... why did you one have a one-way ticket?