Anti-immigration hysteria holds 17M Latino voters hostage

[almaty 19]

you know it brother....just like Lenin took russia,.,amerika will be ours..i blowing yo mt rushmore and repalcing it with lennon and the marx brothers

LOL ...and we need to carve Cheech in there for our Mexcan brethen comrade recruits.

i agree..

[Ban Hammer 13,692]

because we do have USCs with family in both countries who would be impacted negatively by any proposed border crackdown.

The phrase 'tough t*tties' comes to mind...

USCs (should be) our priority not their illegal friends & family.

apparently some never read the story "the goose that laid the golden egg"

[Peikko 1,575]

because we do have USCs with family in both countries who would be impacted negatively by any proposed border crackdown.

The phrase 'tough t*tties' comes to mind... tongue.gif

USCs (should be) our priority not their illegal friends & family.

I am sure you misread that. There is an impact on people who have families on both sides of the border. This means, USC's with legal friends and family because they are Mexican citizens living in Mexico (the other side of the border). The suggestion being that tougher border controls could very easily make visiting one's friends and family unnecessarily difficult. Not to mention how this would effect trade.

[GaryC 7]

I think one of the reasons this issue resonates with people so much is because they see it. What they see is a sudden and widespread change in the nature of their communities and like all change, this change is frightening. They may dress it up in noble terms (like 'they broke the law') but IMHO it's really about their communities changing in a manner they do not want - and did not ask for. It's racism, but it's more. It's about being cut out of the decision making process by the elites. They decided our communities would be the way our communities are turning out to be, we didn't get to decide that. So while the racism element does exist (they are a 'visible' minority), the larger issue really is of control. Who controls our communities, and by extension our destinies? Do we? Or do the powers that be?

This issue has the potential to be a real populist firestorm.

oh brother the race card has been played already.

Race can't be discussed separately with his. The venom of the "anti-illegals" can not be explained by an impassionate love for the law.

Yes it can. When I see a brown skinned person speaking in Spanish I don't think to myself "Oh no!! An illegal!!! I gotta get that bastage!!!". I think that anyone from any country should be treated equally as long as they come here legally. If they jump the fence or just stay when their visa expires then they have zero standing with me. For me it's ONLY a legal issue and has nothing to do with racism. Please don't lump the minority of racist azzholes in with those of us that just want our laws obeyed.

[Peikko 1,575]

Sadly Gary, your rational view is not shared by all, and there is a vocal minority who are very much in the 'if they have brown skin and speak Spanish there must be some 'illegal' skeleton in their closet'. You know this too because Filipinos are treated similarly by the self same bigots.

[SMOKE 1,426]

because we do have USCs with family in both countries who would be impacted negatively by any proposed border crackdown.

The phrase 'tough t*tties' comes to mind... tongue.gif

USCs (should be) our priority not their illegal friends & family.

I am sure you misread that. There is an impact on people who have families on both sides of the border. This means, USC's with legal friends and family because they are Mexican citizens living in Mexico (the other side of the border). The suggestion being that tougher border controls could very easily make visiting one's friends and family unnecessarily difficult. Not to mention how this would effect trade.

the problem i have w/ the "negative effect on trade" arguement is......its ridiculous! how exactly will enforcement of the law, tighter border security & checking an individuals ID have a negative impact on trade?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

how exactly will enforcement of the law, tighter border security & checking an individuals ID have a negative impact on trade?

Instead of 100 trucks per hour coming through a border crossing, only 60 will. To compensate, we could hire more personnel in which case either your taxes will go up to pay for it or some other program will be cut somewhere to compensate.

I'm not suggesting security shouldn't be tighter - merely pointing out suggesting that tightening security will have no impact is silly.

[GaryC 7]

Sadly Gary, your rational view is not shared by all, and there is a vocal minority who are very much in the 'if they have brown skin and speak Spanish there must be some 'illegal' skeleton in their closet'. You know this too because Filipinos are treated similarly by the self same bigots.

99.9% of those that have met Luz and Robin have been accepting and friendly. Just that one idiot at the bus stop so far has made me ashamed to be an American. I think that the vocal racist minority is getting all the press and making it seem that racism is the motivating reason for wanting the illegals to go home and do it the right way. It's sad because it gives those that want open borders ammunition to work with.

[no name 1]

because we do have USCs with family in both countries who would be impacted negatively by any proposed border crackdown.

The phrase 'tough t*tties' comes to mind... tongue.gif

USCs (should be) our priority not their illegal friends & family.

I am sure you misread that. There is an impact on people who have families on both sides of the border. This means, USC's with legal friends and family because they are Mexican citizens living in Mexico (the other side of the border). The suggestion being that tougher border controls could very easily make visiting one's friends and family unnecessarily difficult. Not to mention how this would effect trade.

No I am sure you are wrong. I did not mis-read it. USCs can have legal & illegal relatives.

[Ban Hammer 13,692]

Sadly Gary, your rational view is not shared by all, and there is a vocal minority who are very much in the 'if they have brown skin and speak Spanish there must be some 'illegal' skeleton in their closet'. You know this too because Filipinos are treated similarly by the self same bigots.

perhaps you can be so kind as to repost where someone said that..........

[Drew and Tik 0]

I think one of the reasons this issue resonates with people so much is because they see it. What they see is a sudden and widespread change in the nature of their communities and like all change, this change is frightening. They may dress it up in noble terms (like 'they broke the law') but IMHO it's really about their communities changing in a manner they do not want - and did not ask for. It's racism, but it's more. It's about being cut out of the decision making process by the elites. They decided our communities would be the way our communities are turning out to be, we didn't get to decide that. So while the racism element does exist (they are a 'visible' minority), the larger issue really is of control. Who controls our communities, and by extension our destinies? Do we? Or do the powers that be?

This issue has the potential to be a real populist firestorm.

oh brother the race card has been played already.

Race can't be discussed separately with his. The venom of the "anti-illegals" can not be explained by an impassionate love for the law.

Yes it can. When I see a brown skinned person speaking in Spanish I don't think to myself "Oh no!! An illegal!!! I gotta get that bastage!!!". I think that anyone from any country should be treated equally as long as they come here legally. If they jump the fence or just stay when their visa expires then they have zero standing with me. For me it's ONLY a legal issue and has nothing to do with racism. Please don't lump the minority of racist azzholes in with those of us that just want our laws obeyed.

Exactly, like I said, it has nothing to do with race for me. I really don't care what country you're from, many of us here who are of European [ish] decent are marrying someone who isn't. It also has nothing to do with labor for me, illegal aliens aren't taking jobs that skilled, working Americans would want in most cases. It's a security threat and there is no way to deny this. I do agree that there needs to be some reformation to the current legal avenues of immigration or temporary residence in the US, especially from countries the government thinks are too poor to contribute anything useful (I for one, believe they can).

The fact is that it's not safe for us to allow this sort of thing to go on. I have nothing personally against someone coming to America to make some money while contributing to our economy working a menial job that pays much, much more than they could earn doing something similar in their country...what I am against is the concept that all illegal aliens are like this and none pose a security risk to us.

Just because the intentions of most illegal aliens is economic gain and improvement in quality of life, the system has to be in place to prevent the minority that are actually willing (and sometimes wanting) to harm our lives. Ten people killed by an illegal alien who was a criminal in his/her former country isn't worth any amount of money for the masses of others coming here to make some cash.

Let's talk about reforming the process, not about how it's OK to disobey these laws put in place for the protection of our nation. They should be allowed to work here and contribute, but we need to make an easier way for them to do it legally, and those that still don't follow that process...well ###### them.

[no name 1]

because we do have USCs with family in both countries who would be impacted negatively by any proposed border crackdown.

The phrase 'tough t*tties' comes to mind... tongue.gif

USCs (should be) our priority not their illegal friends & family.

I am sure you misread that. There is an impact on people who have families on both sides of the border. This means, USC's with legal friends and family because they are Mexican citizens living in Mexico (the other side of the border). The suggestion being that tougher border controls could very easily make visiting one's friends and family unnecessarily difficult. Not to mention how this would effect trade.

Visiting should be harder, duh. If you are legal (in either country), it's a non-issue. If Americans have to have passports to cross land borders, so should everyone else. Tougher borders = less illegals....

Edited November 13, 2007 by devilette

[NavarreMan 10]

I think one of the reasons this issue resonates with people so much is because they see it. What they see is a sudden and widespread change in the nature of their communities and like all change, this change is frightening. They may dress it up in noble terms (like 'they broke the law') but IMHO it's really about their communities changing in a manner they do not want - and did not ask for. It's racism, but it's more. It's about being cut out of the decision making process by the elites. They decided our communities would be the way our communities are turning out to be, we didn't get to decide that. So while the racism element does exist (they are a 'visible' minority), the larger issue really is of control. Who controls our communities, and by extension our destinies? Do we? Or do the powers that be?

This issue has the potential to be a real populist firestorm.

oh brother the race card has been played already.

Race can't be discussed separately with his. The venom of the "anti-illegals" can not be explained by an impassionate love for the law.

Yes it can. When I see a brown skinned person speaking in Spanish I don't think to myself "Oh no!! An illegal!!! I gotta get that bastage!!!". I think that anyone from any country should be treated equally as long as they come here legally. If they jump the fence or just stay when their visa expires then they have zero standing with me. For me it's ONLY a legal issue and has nothing to do with racism. Please don't lump the minority of racist azzholes in with those of us that just want our laws obeyed.

It must be gettin' really cold outside 'cause Gary & I finally agree on something. All we ask is the our laws be respected and obeyed.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

because we do have USCs with family in both countries who would be impacted negatively by any proposed border crackdown.

The phrase 'tough t*tties' comes to mind...

USCs (should be) our priority not their illegal friends & family.

Perhaps - but given that they are USCs (with the right to vote and choose elected representatives who represent their interests) you can't exactly go around telling them how they should think or indeed what their priorities on a given issue should be. They do have the right to have different local and national priorities to you.

[no name 1]

because we do have USCs with family in both countries who would be impacted negatively by any proposed border crackdown.

The phrase 'tough t*tties' comes to mind...

USCs (should be) our priority not their illegal friends & family.

Perhaps - but given that they are USCs (with the right to vote and choose elected representatives who represent their interests) you can't exactly go around telling them how they should think or indeed what their priorities on a given issue should be. They do have the right to have different local and national priorities to you.

and you are implying we need to care about their issues first. They can vote & make decision locally. Just as I can.

Edited November 13, 2007 by devilette