Anti-immigration hysteria holds 17M Latino voters hostage

[natty bumppo 297]

Your remark about the bigotry in America was worded in such a way as to indicate that the dirty deeds are done only by the bigots in America.

Yes, because what we are talking about here is, as I understand it, that Hispanics living legally in America are treated differently than those who cannot be identified in a clear and easy way with an illegal population by bigots.

If you are saying that there are bigots among the Hispanic population, then to that I will agree, I am sure there are. However, that really doesn't change the effects that bigotry have on legal Hispanics in America does it? Hispanic bigotry all bigotry is deplorable and?

A great deal of the cause for the "ill will" the "bigots" hold toward the hispanic population is brought on by their own countrymen/women.

How so? What do legal Hispanics do that causes this illwilll against themselves? Of is the action of Illegal Hispanics somehow justification for bigotry towards legal Hispanics?

The same can be said if you stereotype whites as bigots or African Americans as criminals or drug dealers.

What? I am not stereotyping Whites as bigots I am saying that there is a vocal minority of bigots against Hispanics, I didn't specify which group they might belong to themselves, although clearly they can't be Hispanic because that wouldn't make much sense.

There is good and bad in all of us

Very true.

and your statement was worded so as to take away the responsibility of the "victims" in this mess.

How are victims responsible for things that happen to them? I have heard people say these kind of things before, but that's sort of like saying, you are responsible for the fact that you are raped, or robbed, or any crime. The fact is, the person responsible for the crime is the criminal, period.

I simply changed the word bigot for illegals and presto chango, you get bent out of shape. The same can be said for your reply to my post:

I don't understand this. I am not "bent out of shape". I do challenge some of the statements you make though.

Yes, there are a significant proportion of whites who are or look like bigots. Does that make it acceptable to treat whites who are or look bigots differently?

How does one 'look like' a bigot? One can certainly sound like one, but to look like one?

I am trying my hardest to be fair to all. Occasionally I get a little more than passionate about the subject but I always try to remain fair. I don't care if you are hispanic, stupid or purple, DON'T BREAK THE LAW!!! Is that too difficult to understand?

Ph

Would it be possible to keep the original poster/ date stamp/ link in the quote header? This makes it quicker to reference what is being presented as sometimes the original post contains more information. Otherwise it reads more like a "sound bite".

Sorry, not wanting to be critical ... just want to read your comments without doing lots of thread mining.

[pedroh 21]

are they in your life? not the ones you think they 'lool illegal'?

Yes, they are Pedroh. Not by choice, but they are.

and what have they done to you besides 'increasing insurance premiums' and 'draining taxes'?? I mean, welfare crackheads do that too, what's the difference

They are USCs.

so, the abuse is still happening, it doesn't make it a more tolerable abuse of the system.. they're not 'entitled' to leech the system because they're USC's

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

In a way the reaction towards Hispanic migrants isn’t too dissimilar from what happened in England – there was an inevitable negative reaction from members of the public – some reasonable, a lot not (I even got flyers and emails at my work telling me to look out for ATM scams involving “East European types”, more or less suggesting that you better keep looking over your shoulder at the ATM, lest you be mugged).

The ATM scam is a very real threat in the UK, by Eastern Euros or otherwise.

Perhaps - but there's something desperately counter-productive IMO in a company email suggesting that "people of Eastern European appearance" should be looked at with suspicion when you queue up at Lloyds TSB.

[pedroh 21]

and still, all these arguments don't deny the fact that many latinos, even legal usc's, feel threatened against this immigration policies and paranoia from stupid people.. if yall think we as a group wanna feel victims, go ahead, but, ICE and immigration enforcement hasn't proved differently, look at all the cases that have happened.. ICE, minutemen grabbing any1 who looks hispanic, etc..

[no name 1]

and no.. I did my paperwork the legal way.. I am proud of myself for doing it that way, adn I feel good, I don't need to feel bad because some dude jumped the fence and omg didn't have to wait OOHH 6 months!! Oh 1 year.. if you wanna do it the right way, there's a price to pay.. besides, I don't know why people think doing it the illegal way is living like a rockstar.. that's a lie I dunno where they got from

We all did it legally, that's why we are on VJ.

No one said illegals are living like rockstars, only that they are ILLEGAL, draining our system, and contributing nothing.

[JODO 2]

We all did it legally, that's why we are on VJ.

[Alex+R 0]

I guess I meant more the people who crusade against illegal immigration and seem so passionate about a problem that to me doesn't have more impact on their lives than several other issues they care less about -- does that passion come from an underlying feeling of powerlessness?

They impact my life every day. Yours too.

They are a constant drain on resources that should be available to USCs/LPRs. They use my tax $$ for thier medical care. To educate their kids. They take jobs Americans could have. They send their hard earned $$ back to their country, not kept here in our ecomony.

How many illegal immigrants do you know personally? Who are they in your life?

eta: I didn't say it didn't have an impact on anyone's life. But it doesn't have the same impact some other issues have, yet gets a lot more attention than some others.

I don't need to spell it out.

There's plenty, I live in SoCal. There's plenty in NYC every day as well. They're not called sancutary cities for nothing.

Why does it have a huge impact? You're joking, right? The name (LEGAL) VISA JOURNEY, ring a bell? VJ Sheesh.

I didn't say "why does it have a huge impact" so I'm not sure what you're referring to. I just asked you how many you know personally. I know there are a lot here. I know several personally. And I'm wondering if you do.

[no name 1]

I guess I meant more the people who crusade against illegal immigration and seem so passionate about a problem that to me doesn't have more impact on their lives than several other issues they care less about -- does that passion come from an underlying feeling of powerlessness?

They impact my life every day. Yours too.

They are a constant drain on resources that should be available to USCs/LPRs. They use my tax $$ for thier medical care. To educate their kids. They take jobs Americans could have. They send their hard earned $$ back to their country, not kept here in our ecomony.

How many illegal immigrants do you know personally? Who are they in your life?

eta: I didn't say it didn't have an impact on anyone's life. But it doesn't have the same impact some other issues have, yet gets a lot more attention than some others.

I don't need to spell it out.

There's plenty, I live in SoCal. There's plenty in NYC every day as well. They're not called sancutary cities for nothing.

Why does it have a huge impact? You're joking, right? The name (LEGAL) VISA JOURNEY, ring a bell? VJ Sheesh.

I didn't say "why does it have a huge impact" so I'm not sure what you're referring to. I just asked you how many you know personally. I know there are a lot here. I know several personally. And I'm wondering if you do.

Sorry, 'more impact'. See highlighted areas above.

[Peikko 1,575]

Shouldn't the affected nationality be up in arms against their fellow illegal countrymen/women that are generating this furor?

Only if you think that legal Hispanics are responsible for what illegal Hispanics do. I expect though that there are many Hispanics who entered the US legally or born in the US who do not support illegal immigration. I don't expect them to rise up and denounce Hispanic illegals in particular.

Considering the subjects of this discussion you have pretty much run out of choices on who you are pointing the finger at. A logical conclusion would be that you are referring to the white race and their/our infamous bigotry towards others.

No, I am quite aware that the US has a mixed racial profile, it is not necessary for a bigot to be white, nor do I despise white bigots more than any other bigot, that would make no sense. Your quote seems to imply that I am randomly pointing fingers at all and sundry, not so, I am calling out bigotry.

The illegals claim they are "victims" of racial hatred and bigoted acts. They are the lawbreakers. Do not confuse facts here. The hispanic/latino community has risen en mase to defend rights which the illegals have not earned through legal immigration. I will not shed one tear for the illegals nor those who wrongfully aid and protect them.

Illegal immigrants can be victims of bigoted acts, the fact that they are illegal doesn't somehow make everything else that happens to them ok.

Legal Hispanics have the right, the same as anyone else to protest and call for change. They have every right to defend acts of bigotry that are committed against illegal immigrants if they so wish. None of this is an excuse for bigotry against them.

Hense the confusion for the rest of us trying to identify an illegal immigrant from a legal one. You just don't know until you talk to one or check their papers. Oh, but then we are racially profiling someone. Would it be asking too much for the legal immigrants to help ferret out the illegals? Of course it is. But then they go one step further and protest to encourage breaking the law, and in the process call me a bad person because I promote enforcing the law. Who is calling who names here?

Why are you trying to identify illegal immigrants again? It is your personal choice of course, but as an ordinary citizen you don't have the right to check people's papers to satisfy your personal curiosity. As regards law enforcement agencies there is no magic formula for them to identify illegal immigrants but none of this makes it ok to target Hispanice communities because it's convenient to do so.

What's with the name calling part? I don't recall calling anyone a bad person, refresh my memory.

[Peikko 1,575]

Sorry, not trying to be confusing, I just get really confused with mega quoted quotes. I'll try to at least make some reference to who/what next time.

[Alex+R 0]

I guess I meant more the people who crusade against illegal immigration and seem so passionate about a problem that to me doesn't have more impact on their lives than several other issues they care less about -- does that passion come from an underlying feeling of powerlessness?

They impact my life every day. Yours too.

They are a constant drain on resources that should be available to USCs/LPRs. They use my tax $$ for thier medical care. To educate their kids. They take jobs Americans could have. They send their hard earned $$ back to their country, not kept here in our ecomony.

How many illegal immigrants do you know personally? Who are they in your life?

eta: I didn't say it didn't have an impact on anyone's life. But it doesn't have the same impact some other issues have, yet gets a lot more attention than some others.

I don't need to spell it out.

There's plenty, I live in SoCal. There's plenty in NYC every day as well. They're not called sancutary cities for nothing.

Why does it have a huge impact? You're joking, right? The name (LEGAL) VISA JOURNEY, ring a bell? VJ Sheesh.

I didn't say "why does it have a huge impact" so I'm not sure what you're referring to. I just asked you how many you know personally. I know there are a lot here. I know several personally. And I'm wondering if you do.

Sorry, 'more impact'. See highlighted areas above.

So you don't know any personally.

I hardly think illegal immigration has a bigger impact than the war. You know, on the planet, which we are part of.

[no name 1]

I guess I meant more the people who crusade against illegal immigration and seem so passionate about a problem that to me doesn't have more impact on their lives than several other issues they care less about -- does that passion come from an underlying feeling of powerlessness?

They impact my life every day. Yours too.

They are a constant drain on resources that should be available to USCs/LPRs. They use my tax $$ for thier medical care. To educate their kids. They take jobs Americans could have. They send their hard earned $$ back to their country, not kept here in our ecomony.

How many illegal immigrants do you know personally? Who are they in your life?

eta: I didn't say it didn't have an impact on anyone's life. But it doesn't have the same impact some other issues have, yet gets a lot more attention than some others.

I don't need to spell it out.

There's plenty, I live in SoCal. There's plenty in NYC every day as well. They're not called sancutary cities for nothing.

Why does it have a huge impact? You're joking, right? The name (LEGAL) VISA JOURNEY, ring a bell? VJ Sheesh.

I didn't say "why does it have a huge impact" so I'm not sure what you're referring to. I just asked you how many you know personally. I know there are a lot here. I know several personally. And I'm wondering if you do.

Sorry, 'more impact'. See highlighted areas above.

So you don't know any personally.

I hardly think illegal immigration has a bigger impact than the war. You know, on the planet, which we are part of.

Sigh. Yes, Alex, I do. In several cities. Am I qualified to speak about it now?

And the war affects me too. I never said it was more or less important. Care to point where someone did?

Edited November 13, 2007 by devilette

[Alex+R 0]

I guess I meant more the people who crusade against illegal immigration and seem so passionate about a problem that to me doesn't have more impact on their lives than several other issues they care less about -- does that passion come from an underlying feeling of powerlessness?

They impact my life every day. Yours too.

They are a constant drain on resources that should be available to USCs/LPRs. They use my tax $$ for thier medical care. To educate their kids. They take jobs Americans could have. They send their hard earned $$ back to their country, not kept here in our ecomony.

How many illegal immigrants do you know personally? Who are they in your life?

eta: I didn't say it didn't have an impact on anyone's life. But it doesn't have the same impact some other issues have, yet gets a lot more attention than some others.

I don't need to spell it out.

There's plenty, I live in SoCal. There's plenty in NYC every day as well. They're not called sancutary cities for nothing.

Why does it have a huge impact? You're joking, right? The name (LEGAL) VISA JOURNEY, ring a bell? VJ Sheesh.

I didn't say "why does it have a huge impact" so I'm not sure what you're referring to. I just asked you how many you know personally. I know there are a lot here. I know several personally. And I'm wondering if you do.

Sorry, 'more impact'. See highlighted areas above.

So you don't know any personally.

I hardly think illegal immigration has a bigger impact than the war. You know, on the planet, which we are part of.

Sigh. Yes, Alex, I do. In several cities. Am I qualified to speak about it now?

And the war affects me too. I never said it was more or less important. Care to point where someone did?

Question: would you say all the things you say to their faces? I'm assuming you're not friends... but anyway, no, Devilette, nobody said it. Rather, I was giving an example of my point. A lot fewer people argue about the war, or all the dead from the war, than about illegal immigration, which seems innocuous by comparison. Hmmmm I wonder if there's a connection...

[no name 1]

I guess I meant more the people who crusade against illegal immigration and seem so passionate about a problem that to me doesn't have more impact on their lives than several other issues they care less about -- does that passion come from an underlying feeling of powerlessness?

They impact my life every day. Yours too.

They are a constant drain on resources that should be available to USCs/LPRs. They use my tax $$ for thier medical care. To educate their kids. They take jobs Americans could have. They send their hard earned $$ back to their country, not kept here in our ecomony.

How many illegal immigrants do you know personally? Who are they in your life?

eta: I didn't say it didn't have an impact on anyone's life. But it doesn't have the same impact some other issues have, yet gets a lot more attention than some others.

I don't need to spell it out.

There's plenty, I live in SoCal. There's plenty in NYC every day as well. They're not called sancutary cities for nothing.

Why does it have a huge impact? You're joking, right? The name (LEGAL) VISA JOURNEY, ring a bell? VJ Sheesh.

I didn't say "why does it have a huge impact" so I'm not sure what you're referring to. I just asked you how many you know personally. I know there are a lot here. I know several personally. And I'm wondering if you do.

Sorry, 'more impact'. See highlighted areas above.

So you don't know any personally.

I hardly think illegal immigration has a bigger impact than the war. You know, on the planet, which we are part of.

Sigh. Yes, Alex, I do. In several cities. Am I qualified to speak about it now?

And the war affects me too. I never said it was more or less important. Care to point where someone did?

Question: would you say all the things you say to their faces? I'm assuming you're not friends... but anyway, no, Devilette, nobody said it. Rather, I was giving an example of my point. A lot fewer people argue about the war, or all the dead from the war, than about illegal immigration, which seems innocuous by comparison. Hmmmm I wonder if there's a connection...

Why the 3rd degree Alex? If I talk to illegals or not is not the point here. Do not assume anything about me.

PS: Visa Journey is a website about IMMIGRATION, not war, hence the numerous discussions of illegal vs. legal immigration. Not sure how much clearer I can make it.

Edited November 13, 2007 by devilette

[SMOKE 1,426]

Question: would you say all the things you say to their faces?

i will & do every chance i get.