Anti-immigration hysteria holds 17M Latino voters hostage

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

I am trying my hardest to be fair to all. Occasionally I get a little more than passionate about the subject but I always try to remain fair. I don't care if you are hispanic, stupid or purple, DON'T BREAK THE LAW!!! Is that too difficult to understand?

i'll have to write webster's and have them update their listing for "law-abiding" to read "see bigot"

the things i learn in vj, jeesh

Is that really how you see it Charles or are you just stirring again? I challenge you to find one statement I have made or one arguement I have taken a stand on that says I am a bigot or racist. Put up or shut up Charles!

that above isn't about anything you've said, it's in agreement with you. mkay?

[no name 1]

I am trying my hardest to be fair to all. Occasionally I get a little more than passionate about the subject but I always try to remain fair. I don't care if you are hispanic, stupid or purple, DON'T BREAK THE LAW!!! Is that too difficult to understand?

i'll have to write webster's and have them update their listing for "law-abiding" to read "see bigot"

the things i learn in vj, jeesh

Is that really how you see it Charles or are you just stirring again? I challenge you to find one statement I have made or one arguement I have taken a stand on that says I am a bigot or racist. Put up or shut up Charles!

that above isn't about anything you've said, it's in agreement with you. mkay?

[NavarreMan 10]

I have read it several times and it doesn't read that way but if you insist then I will leave it at that.

Peace brother Chas.

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

I have read it several times and it doesn't read that way but if you insist then I will leave it at that.

Peace brother Chas.

it's intended as agreement. i'm quite tired of seeing people who want the law followed being labeled as racists.

[NavarreMan 10]

Put your self in our shoes and re-read it. It comes across as something completely different. But I am in agreement that our laws need to be unheld and enforced.

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

Put your self in our shoes and re-read it. It comes across as something completely different. But I am in agreement that our laws need to be unheld and enforced.

incoming pm.

[NavarreMan 10]

Pedroh,

The title of this thread is: Anti-immigration hysteria holds 17M Latino voters hostage, kinda how I feel

I have carefully read your article and question if perhaps the hysteria is not being self-perpetrated. 17M Latino's (your name not mine) being held hostage is a far cry from reality. Can you explain in your own words why you felt this thread title is/was appropriate for this thread?

Put your self in our shoes and re-read it. It comes across as something completely different. But I am in agreement that our laws need to be upheld and enforced.

ooops again

[Peikko 1,575]

Your remark about the bigotry in America was worded in such a way as to indicate that the dirty deeds are done only by the bigots in America.

Yes, because what we are talking about here is, as I understand it, that Hispanics living legally in America are treated differently than those who cannot be identified in a clear and easy way with an illegal population by bigots.

If you are saying that there are bigots among the Hispanic population, then to that I will agree, I am sure there are. However, that really doesn't change the effects that bigotry have on legal Hispanics in America does it? Hispanic bigotry all bigotry is deplorable and?

A great deal of the cause for the "ill will" the "bigots" hold toward the hispanic population is brought on by their own countrymen/women.

How so? What do legal Hispanics do that causes this illwilll against themselves? Of is the action of Illegal Hispanics somehow justification for bigotry towards legal Hispanics?

The same can be said if you stereotype whites as bigots or African Americans as criminals or drug dealers.

What? I am not stereotyping Whites as bigots I am saying that there is a vocal minority of bigots against Hispanics, I didn't specify which group they might belong to themselves, although clearly they can't be Hispanic because that wouldn't make much sense.

There is good and bad in all of us

Very true.

and your statement was worded so as to take away the responsibility of the "victims" in this mess.

How are victims responsible for things that happen to them? I have heard people say these kind of things before, but that's sort of like saying, you are responsible for the fact that you are raped, or robbed, or any crime. The fact is, the person responsible for the crime is the criminal, period.

I simply changed the word bigot for illegals and presto chango, you get bent out of shape. The same can be said for your reply to my post:

I don't understand this. I am not "bent out of shape". I do challenge some of the statements you make though.

Yes, there are a significant proportion of whites who are or look like bigots. Does that make it acceptable to treat whites who are or look bigots differently?

How does one 'look like' a bigot? One can certainly sound like one, but to look like one?

I am trying my hardest to be fair to all. Occasionally I get a little more than passionate about the subject but I always try to remain fair. I don't care if you are hispanic, stupid or purple, DON'T BREAK THE LAW!!! Is that too difficult to understand?

Edited November 13, 2007 by Purple_Hibiscus

[pedroh 21]

Pedroh,

The title of this thread is: Anti-immigration hysteria holds 17M Latino voters hostage, kinda how I feel

I have carefully read your article and question if perhaps the hysteria is not being self-perpetrated. 17M Latino's (your name not mine) being held hostage is a far cry from reality. Can you explain in your own words why you felt this thread title is/was appropriate for this thread?

Put your self in our shoes and re-read it. It comes across as something completely different. But I am in agreement that our laws need to be upheld and enforced.

ooops again

As a Latino, it's hard, for me at least, to feel different from the illegals, yea, I have a green card, and insurance, and I do the stuff that any 'law abiding resident' does.. everytime illegal immigrations is talked about, I always hear '80% -or whatever- of the illegal immigrants are from mexico or latin american countries-... even if I'm not illegal I feel targeted too.. the regular joe can't differentiate between a legal and illegal latino, they just know that if you're not speaking english, you're a 'Mexican'(not from Mexico, but they way they use it to despectively call any latino from any country, even if it's not Mexico).. and usually, when they talk about the border and the percentage of illegals, you always hear the word 'latino'or 'hispanic'. I don't think there's a 'better latino' concept, or at least I don't feel like a better one just because I followed the legal way, I am as Mexican or latino as any other hermano.. and I can't be arghh you darn latinos learn english... blablabla..

ALso, it's everyday the same sh!t, every freakin day you hear about latinos, illegal immigration, even if people say 'it's all the illegals'..you know that the biggest community favoring an amnesty are latinos, so, its always latinos-amnesty-illegals.. it's just so freakin exhasperating, listening to the same #######...

then it's the same stupid rant, 'why my son has to learn spanish', it's always a feeling of denigrating the latino culture in one way or another.. heck, last time i knew, there were several languages in high schools, but if in the area that u live there's nothing else than spanish, is not the latinos fault.. my wife lived in a small NC towns and the elective languages were german and spanish, well, she chose spanish.. so always listening about that stupid conspiracy theory of 'they want to turn the USA a spanish speaking country is ridiculous'.. fukc, if people want the illegals to learn english, why don't the complainers teach them? it's my fukcin business if I want to speak spanish rather than english, but people think it's 'ignorant'.. I will defend my roots, and language to death..

Edited November 13, 2007 by pedroh

[Scott & Lai 12]

I have read it several times and it doesn't read that way but if you insist then I will leave it at that.

Peace brother Chas.

I read it as being in agreement with you...perhaps Charles should have quoted someone else, though, to avoid the confusion.

[no name 1]

then it's the same stupid rant, 'why my son has to learn spanish', it's always a feeling of denigrating the latino culture in one way or another.. heck, last time i knew, there were several languages in high schools, but if in the area that u live there's nothing else than spanish, is not the latinos fault.. my wife lived in a small NC towns and the elective languages were german and spanish, well, she chose spanish.. so always listening about that stupid conspiracy theory of 'they want to turn the USA a spanish speaking country is ridiculous'.. fukc, if people want the illegals to learn english, why don't the complainers teach them?

Because their communities don't allow for it. There's no need if they can get everything they want/need in their community without ever speaking English. PLenty of Chinese/Polish/Mexican/etc communities that feed that.

[Alex+R 0]

This was a great original post, with a valid and underrepresented POV.

And then Gupt said this:

I think one of the reasons this issue resonates with people so much is because they see it. What they see is a sudden and widespread change in the nature of their communities and like all change, this change is frightening. They may dress it up in noble terms (like 'they broke the law') but IMHO it's really about their communities changing in a manner they do not want - and did not ask for. It's racism, but it's more. It's about being cut out of the decision making process by the elites. They decided our communities would be the way our communities are turning out to be, we didn't get to decide that. So while the racism element does exist (they are a 'visible' minority), the larger issue really is of control. Who controls our communities, and by extension our destinies? Do we? Or do the powers that be?

This issue has the potential to be a real populist firestorm.

And that was a really good point. And then what the hell happened to the discussion? I want to have the discussion that comes from that post. Even if you take out the word "racism" from the equation, it's still really interesting to look at whether or not this is about powerlessness. I'd like to know if anyone on VJ feels that way. I've certainly seen some posters say that in the past.

[pedroh 21]

This was a great original post, with a valid and underrepresented POV.

And then Gupt said this:

I think one of the reasons this issue resonates with people so much is because they see it. What they see is a sudden and widespread change in the nature of their communities and like all change, this change is frightening. They may dress it up in noble terms (like 'they broke the law') but IMHO it's really about their communities changing in a manner they do not want - and did not ask for. It's racism, but it's more. It's about being cut out of the decision making process by the elites. They decided our communities would be the way our communities are turning out to be, we didn't get to decide that. So while the racism element does exist (they are a 'visible' minority), the larger issue really is of control. Who controls our communities, and by extension our destinies? Do we? Or do the powers that be?

This issue has the potential to be a real populist firestorm.

And that was a really good point. And then what the hell happened to the discussion? I want to have the discussion that comes from that post. Even if you take out the word "racism" from the equation, it's still really interesting to look at whether or not this is about powerlessness. I'd like to know if anyone on VJ feels that way. I've certainly seen some posters say that in the past.

I don't feel powerless.. but I don't trust the current immigration policies and the enforcement they have.. fukc..where I live there's several illegal families, I know they have fake papers.. and sometimes I'm afraid, that ICE will go and raid the ###### out of the building, withouth asking first.. it has happened before, arresting legal residents who happened to 'look' or have 'the last name' as the suspects.. I'm really afraid they'll get into my apartment and do their illegal nazi ######..

[Peikko 1,575]

Pedroh,

The title of this thread is: Anti-immigration hysteria holds 17M Latino voters hostage, kinda how I feel

I have carefully read your article and question if perhaps the hysteria is not being self-perpetrated. 17M Latino's (your name not mine) being held hostage is a far cry from reality. Can you explain in your own words why you felt this thread title is/was appropriate for this thread?

QUOTE(NavarreMan @ Nov 13 2007, 02:17 PM) *

Put your self in our shoes and re-read it. It comes across as something completely different. But I am in agreement that our laws need to be upheld and enforced.

ooops again blush.gif

In other words, there has only ever been a tiny, little bit of random bigotry against Hispanics which the Hispanics have used to create a 'victim' culture for themselves? Or, what are you saying if not that?

[Alex+R 0]

I don't feel powerless.. but I don't trust the current immigration policies and the enforcement they have.. fukc..where I live there's several illegal families, I know they have fake papers.. and sometimes I'm afraid, that ICE will go and raid the ###### out of the building, withouth asking first.. it has happened before, arresting legal residents who happened to 'look' or have 'the last name' as the suspects.. I'm really afraid they'll get into my apartment and do their illegal nazi ######..

I guess I meant more the people who crusade against illegal immigration and seem so passionate about a problem that to me doesn't have more impact on their lives than several other issues they care less about -- does that passion come from an underlying feeling of powerlessness?