Illegal immigration is an opportunity for Republicans: 40% of Democrats and majority of African-Americans favor tougher GOP approach

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

With the economy about to hit the skids, that might be a bigger issue.

You bet. If we're in a recession right now, we'll know early next year - and if that's the case, that will be the big issue. Good point.

That might be a problem for the Reps if they insist on keeping taxes low.

?? Sorry, I don't follow. I believe the opposite, the time to raise taxes is when both consumers and investors can afford it. Not during a recession. Universal healthcare will be DOA if we enter a recession in 08.

Edited November 13, 2007 by VJ Troll

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

With the economy about to hit the skids, that might be a bigger issue.

You bet. If we're in a recession right now, we'll know early next year - and if that's the case, that will be the big issue. Good point.

That might be a problem for the Reps if they insist on keeping taxes low.

?? Sorry, I don't follow. I believe the opposite, the time to raise taxes is when both consumers and investors can afford it. Not during a recession. Universal healthcare will be DOA if we enter a recession in 08.

Dunno - I thought that the current situation was due in part to the war and Bush's tax cuts, in addition to the fallout from the sub-prime mortgage thing.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

With the economy about to hit the skids, that might be a bigger issue.

You bet. If we're in a recession right now, we'll know early next year - and if that's the case, that will be the big issue. Good point.

That might be a problem for the Reps if they insist on keeping taxes low.

?? Sorry, I don't follow. I believe the opposite, the time to raise taxes is when both consumers and investors can afford it. Not during a recession. Universal healthcare will be DOA if we enter a recession in 08.

Dunno - I thought that the current situation was due in part to the war and Bush's tax cuts, in addition to the fallout from the sub-prime mortgage thing.

I disagree about the tax cuts causing the current problems. It's not even the war, IMO (financed with paper, effects will be felt decades later). My sense is that this has more to do with wall street overshooting on the downside, just like they did on the upside. When things are good, they overdo it. When things look not as good as hoped, they all jump off a cliff together. It's idiotic.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The Repubican Party has some deep fissures. In fact, its a party in search of itself. Why? Because the hardliners with their immovable stance on immigration doesn't give room for anyone else's view within the Party. This is why they have imploded. They succeeded in the early 90's by making political consessions among the different groups and created a united front.

Regardless of Party of political ideology, without compromise you'll never win elections.

[GaryC 7]

The Repubican Party has some deep fissures. In fact, its a party in search of itself. Why? Because the hardliners with their immovable stance on immigration doesn't give room for anyone else's view within the Party. This is why they have imploded. They succeeded in the early 90's by making political consessions among the different groups and created a united front.

Regardless of Party of political ideology, without compromise you'll never win elections.

Sounds more like the democratic party. A total bunch of losers that even though they are in power can't do anything but b!tch, whine and blame everything on Bush. They know that most of the country is moderate but they seem to always pander to the far left. They are not likely to win any elections with a record like that over the last few years. I say kick everyone out and start over.

[Ban Hammer 13,364]

It's time for all the asshats in Washington to get the hell out and start fresh with a group that will secure our borders and crack down on those that hire illegals.

I'm not going to belabor the points we disagree on. All I'd ask is this - do any of the current candidates count as not being part of 'the asshats in Washington'? Most of the candidates on both sides are Congressmen, Senators, ex-Congressmen and ex-Senators. Sounds to me like if you're looking for someone other than a Washington asshat.... you're limited to governors and mayors

i'm voting for garyc for president

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The Repubican Party has some deep fissures. In fact, its a party in search of itself. Why? Because the hardliners with their immovable stance on immigration doesn't give room for anyone else's view within the Party. This is why they have imploded. They succeeded in the early 90's by making political consessions among the different groups and created a united front.

Regardless of Party of political ideology, without compromise you'll never win elections.

Sounds more like the democratic party. A total bunch of losers that even though they are in power can't do anything but b!tch, whine and blame everything on Bush. They know that most of the country is moderate but they seem to always pander to the far left. They are not likely to win any elections with a record like that over the last few years. I say kick everyone out and start over.

If you're talking about Congress and what seems like their meandering position on the War in Iraq - the situation is complicated because all they can do is approve funding or not...the ball is really in the President's court as to the strategy.

I would agree that both parties have failed the American public on many things, but no matter how divisive an issue may be such as immigration reform, if this country is going to move forward, common ground has to be found and policy must be forged on that common ground...which requires compromise. For whatever reason, hardliners (from both extremes of the political spectrum) don't like to compromise...which is why they usually never accomplish anything except by bullying the rest in their party to go along with them.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

but no matter how divisive an issue may be such as immigration reform, if this country is going to move forward, common ground has to be found and policy must be forged on that common ground...which requires compromise.

I would submit to you that a hardline position on illegal immigration is a winning position in a general election. People are pissed. I'm frankly amazed at how pissed they are, but that the anger exists is undeniable.

Edited November 13, 2007 by VJ Troll

[one...two...tree 2,762]

but no matter how divisive an issue may be such as immigration reform, if this country is going to move forward, common ground has to be found and policy must be forged on that common ground...which requires compromise.

I would submit to you that a hardline position on illegal immigration is a winning position in a general election. People are pissed. I'm frankly amazed at how pissed they are, but that the anger exists is undeniable.

Fear, hysteria and paranoia are powerful motivators, especially when they manifest themselves into angry outrage.

If the status quo goes on for illegal immigrants in this country (and I'm not advocating it should), I seriously doubt it will make any significant difference in the lives of those who are expressing most of the outrage. Something psychological triggered off in their heads beginning with the aftermath of 9/11 that has morphed into their angry outrage over illegal immigrants in this country. I'm just talking about the pissed off part (emotions), not any rational reasoning as to why they want to see the illegal immigration issues resolved.

[Dan J 277]

but no matter how divisive an issue may be such as immigration reform, if this country is going to move forward, common ground has to be found and policy must be forged on that common ground...which requires compromise.

I would submit to you that a hardline position on illegal immigration is a winning position in a general election. People are pissed. I'm frankly amazed at how pissed they are, but that the anger exists is undeniable.

Fear, hysteria and paranoia are powerful motivators, especially when they manifest themselves into angry outrage.

If the status quo goes on for illegal immigrants in this country (and I'm not advocating it should), I seriously doubt it will make any significant difference in the lives of those who are expressing most of the outrage. Something psychological triggered off in their heads beginning with the aftermath of 9/11 that has morphed into their angry outrage over illegal immigrants in this country. I'm just talking about the pissed off part (emotions), not any rational reasoning as to why they want to see the illegal immigration issues resolved.

Economically at least, illegal immigration has little effect. But we got to blame someone for our problems.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Steven,

You are right. But the anger exists and any politician that figures out how to tap it will be seen as a freaking genius.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

but no matter how divisive an issue may be such as immigration reform, if this country is going to move forward, common ground has to be found and policy must be forged on that common ground...which requires compromise.

I would submit to you that a hardline position on illegal immigration is a winning position in a general election. People are pissed. I'm frankly amazed at how pissed they are, but that the anger exists is undeniable.

Fear, hysteria and paranoia are powerful motivators, especially when they manifest themselves into angry outrage.

If the status quo goes on for illegal immigrants in this country (and I'm not advocating it should), I seriously doubt it will make any significant difference in the lives of those who are expressing most of the outrage. Something psychological triggered off in their heads beginning with the aftermath of 9/11 that has morphed into their angry outrage over illegal immigrants in this country. I'm just talking about the pissed off part (emotions), not any rational reasoning as to why they want to see the illegal immigration issues resolved.

Economically at least, illegal immigration has little effect. But we got to blame someone for our problems.

Which historically has happened time after time. We should adopt a more literal approach towards the Hebrew tradition of a scapegoat. Just find one good goat, lay our hands on it and sent it off into the mountains.

[Kevin and 10]

The Repubican Party has some deep fissures. In fact, its a party in search of itself. Why? Because the hardliners with their immovable stance on immigration doesn't give room for anyone else's view within the Party. This is why they have imploded. They succeeded in the early 90's by making political consessions among the different groups and created a united front.

Regardless of Party of political ideology, without compromise you'll never win elections.

Sounds more like the democratic party. A total bunch of losers that even though they are in power can't do anything but b!tch, whine and blame everything on Bush. They know that most of the country is moderate but they seem to always pander to the far left. They are not likely to win any elections with a record like that over the last few years. I say kick everyone out and start over.

If a real Conservative stepped up to the plate I don't think the Dems wouldn't have a chance.

What's funny is a Rep of today is like a Dem of the past, yet the Dems say Reps are too far right.

If congress had the guts they could end Iraq by cutting the funding, but they won't. Principal doesn't matter power does.

[Ban Hammer 13,364]

Which historically has happened time after time. We should adopt a more literal approach towards the Hebrew tradition of a scapegoat. Just find one good goat, lay our hands on it and sent it off into the mountains.

great idea - will you be the goat?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The Repubican Party has some deep fissures. In fact, its a party in search of itself. Why? Because the hardliners with their immovable stance on immigration doesn't give room for anyone else's view within the Party. This is why they have imploded. They succeeded in the early 90's by making political consessions among the different groups and created a united front.

Regardless of Party of political ideology, without compromise you'll never win elections.

Sounds more like the democratic party. A total bunch of losers that even though they are in power can't do anything but b!tch, whine and blame everything on Bush. They know that most of the country is moderate but they seem to always pander to the far left. They are not likely to win any elections with a record like that over the last few years. I say kick everyone out and start over.

If a real Conservative stepped up to the plate I don't think the Dems wouldn't have a chance.

What's funny is a Rep of today is like a Dem of the past, yet the Dems say Reps are too far right.

If congress had the guts they could end Iraq by cutting the funding, but they won't. Principal doesn't matter power does.

I agree...what was liberal economics yesterday is now embraced by the neo-cons as sound, conservative philosophy. Limited government has been replaced with a 'benevolent' Empire ideal....because they're more interested in 'protecting their interests' than protecting the Constitution.

Edited November 13, 2007 by Mister Fancypants