Illegal immigration is an opportunity for Republicans: 40% of Democrats and majority of African-Americans favor tougher GOP approach

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

From a memo dated Oct 30 2007, authored by Stan Greenberg, Al Quinlan and James Carville. See link at the bottom for full text of memo.

"When we tested a comprehensive proposal in a bi-partisan poll for NPR, we got (44)

percent support for a plan to increase enforcement on the borders and work place and deny most

government benefits but recognizing we cannot expel 12 million, creates a path for citizenship

for the law abiding – a big change in status with opportunities for fuller integration into

America.10 That is likely a presidential issue that could gain further support with public debate.

When we tested a plan earlier without the reassurance on benefits, the plan got only 39 percent,

suggesting how challenging this issue will be for ordinary candidates without the full platform

available at a presidential level.11 Even with the reassurance on control and benefits, 40 percent

of Democrats and a majority of African Americans favored the tougher Republican alternative

that provided no path to legalization. This is a real wedge issue that Democrats need to get right."

http://www.democracycorps.com/reports/#######...0_2007_Memo.pdf

[GaryC 7]

I was going to pass on this one to avoid another lengthy battle with the pro-illegal crowd. But I salute you for posting it instead troll.

Kind of hard for the dems to argue with it since it has Carville saying it is so.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'd say it certainly is an opportunity - though whether or not it will be acted upon is quite another.

[natty bumppo 297]

I'd say it certainly is an opportunity - though whether or not it will be acted upon is quite another.

agreed ... an opportunity for the "the tougher Republican alternative that provided no path to legalization" to be implemented

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I'd say it certainly is an opportunity - though whether or not it will be acted upon is quite another.

It's an opportunity for the Republicans to cut into the Democratic base, and you think it's questionable whether they will try? You bet they will try. And this is an issue with an impact that people can see, so it has a lot of resonance. Fear of change is human, but what we're seeing right now is rapid, sudden and widespread change. People will lash back, all the GOP needs to do is frame the debate in a manner that paints the Dems as the responsible party (even though in reality they are not - Bush is).

Edited November 13, 2007 by VJ Troll

[GaryC 7]

I'd say it certainly is an opportunity - though whether or not it will be acted upon is quite another.

It's an opportunity for the Republicans to cut into the Democratic base, and you think it's questionable whether they will try? You bet they will try. And this is an issue with an impact that people can see, so it has a lot of resonance. Fear of change is human, but what we're seeing right now is rapid, sudden and widespread change. People will lash back, all the GOP needs to do is frame the debate in a manner that paints the Dems as the responsible party (even though in reality they are not - Bush is).

I agree with everything but the last. It is part Bush's fault only because it is everyones fault that has done nothing or worse encouraged this problem since the great lie of 1986. The bill that Reagan signed not only called for amnesty but at the same time it called for a secure border. The dems took the amnesty and didn't do anything to secure the border. Since then rep and dem alike has been turning a blind eye to the problem. It's time for all the asshats in Washington to get the hell out and start fresh with a group that will secure our borders and crack down on those that hire illegals.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

It's time for all the asshats in Washington to get the hell out and start fresh with a group that will secure our borders and crack down on those that hire illegals.

I'm not going to belabor the points we disagree on. All I'd ask is this - do any of the current candidates count as not being part of 'the asshats in Washington'? Most of the candidates on both sides are Congressmen, Senators, ex-Congressmen and ex-Senators. Sounds to me like if you're looking for someone other than a Washington asshat.... you're limited to governors and mayors

[SqdnGuns 21]

Ron Paul....the only candidate I like. Too bad he doesn't have a chance in hell of winning.

Edited November 13, 2007 by SqdnGuns

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'd say it certainly is an opportunity - though whether or not it will be acted upon is quite another.

It's an opportunity for the Republicans to cut into the Democratic base, and you think it's questionable whether they will try? You bet they will try. And this is an issue with an impact that people can see, so it has a lot of resonance. Fear of change is human, but what we're seeing right now is rapid, sudden and widespread change. People will lash back, all the GOP needs to do is frame the debate in a manner that paints the Dems as the responsible party (even though in reality they are not - Bush is).

Well that's really assuming that they're organised, of one mind and aren't busy fighting and backstabbing each other. The other point of course is that election promises often aren't up to snuff later on - or else are interpreted in such a way that mediocrity is presented as 'success'.

That and of course to what extent the folks behind the scenes direct the political agenda (like the way the health insurance industry and its various lobby groups are opposing universal healthcare).

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Ron Paul....the only candidate I like.

I can respect that but you do realize he's unelectable, don't you? If nothing else, his comments about black men in DC is enough to torpedo his campaign, were he to win the Repub nomination.

Out of the electable candidates who are NOT part of the immigration problem, who do you like? The only options I can think of are Romney, Rudy, Huck, Richardson and maybe Obama but only because he hasn't been around too long.

Well that's really assuming that they're organised, of one mind and aren't busy fighting and backstabbing each other.

Once the primaries are over, it'll come together. This is just too easy.

[SqdnGuns 21]

Ron Paul....the only candidate I like.

I can respect that but you do realize he's unelectable, don't you? If nothing else, his comments about black men in DC is enough to torpedo his campaign, were he to win the Repub nomination.

Out of the electable candidates who are NOT part of the immigration problem, who do you like? The only options I can think of are Romney, Rudy, Huck, Richardson and maybe Obama but only because he hasn't been around too long.

I can't trust any of the others.......at least Ron Paul means what he says, at least for now.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Ron Paul....the only candidate I like.

I can respect that but you do realize he's unelectable, don't you? If nothing else, his comments about black men in DC is enough to torpedo his campaign, were he to win the Repub nomination.

Out of the electable candidates who are NOT part of the immigration problem, who do you like? The only options I can think of are Romney, Rudy, Huck, Richardson and maybe Obama but only because he hasn't been around too long.

I can't trust any of the others.......at least Ron Paul means what he says, at least for now.

Fair enough.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well that's really assuming that they're organised, of one mind and aren't busy fighting and backstabbing each other.

Once the primaries are over, it'll come together. This is just too easy.

Dunno I've seen parties piss away that kind of thing before. The UK conservatives fell apart after the 1997 election and still can't get over their infighting. Still the second party but unelectable in any real sense.

Don't know how that rationale will translate to US politics but they're going to have to be pretty careful about what they campaign on. I do think though that both parties will be shortchanging everyone if they campaign just on Iraq and the War on Terror. With the economy about to hit the skids, that might be a bigger issue.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

With the economy about to hit the skids, that might be a bigger issue.

You bet. If we're in a recession right now, we'll know early next year - and if that's the case, that will be the big issue. Good point.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

With the economy about to hit the skids, that might be a bigger issue.

You bet. If we're in a recession right now, we'll know early next year - and if that's the case, that will be the big issue. Good point.

That might be a problem for the Reps if they insist on keeping taxes low.