Do I have to support my ex-husband AND our child if we get divorced?

[floridalaurie 0]

Yup, I did it. I married a guy from Jordan who seemed like a great guy while I was posted in Iraq and he was working there too. We have a child he finally got here to see once the little guy was 14 months old, but the marriage is NOT working out and he seems somewhat reluctant to get and keep a job.

I'm feeling a bit used here. His brother got sponsored to come here a year before him so I KNOW that he knows the "ins-and-outs" of the process including filing to be separate from me in a divorce, but proving the marriage was bona-fide (having a baby). He was a responsible worker while I knew him in Iraq and was even helping to support his family in Jordan, but he's been a YEAR without a job (6 months in Jordan waiting for his appt at the Embassy) and now 6 months here.

I NOW fully comprehend the depth of the I-864, but my God, I am having trouble making ends meet now! I cannot possibly support our baby AND him!!! Do I have any rights as the US Citizen in this situation whatsoever???

Oh yea, and BTW, if he manages to get out of the country and back to Jordan with our little guy, I have NO custodial rights in the Middle East as a Christian mother. Jordan does NOT participate in the Hague Convention for the return of abducted children. So, I have this additional fun little thing to worry about if he decides to "go home" as a result of the divorce...

Women beware! Marrying for love can put you in some STUPID and SCARY situations...

[*JG* 2]

I'd actually like to know your opinions on this support thing too. I know someone else in this situation and I'd like some input. No child in that situation. Nor, is it a MENA man.

[YuAndDan 153]

I-864 only kicks in if EX uses means tested benefits from State and US government, you can be billed for those services.

Only way out of the I-864 binding contract is when one of the following 5 conditions are met.

• Immigrant Dies
• Sponsor Dies
• Immigrant works and is credited with 40 quarters of work.
• Immigrant leaves the USA and abandons LPR status
• Immigrant naturalizes and becomes a US citizen.

[*JG* 2]

I-864 only kicks in if EX uses means tested benefits from State and US government, you can be billed for those services.

Only way out of the I-864 binding contract is when one of the following 5 conditions are met.

• Immigrant Dies
• Sponsor Dies
• Immigrant works and is credited with 40 quarters of work.
• Immigrant leaves the USA and abandons LPR status
• Immigrant naturalizes and becomes a US citizen.

I brought up these points. So, someone says to me "what if you can prove fraud?" This person I am referring to has made statements that she can prove from some phone bills he has that he was seeing someone else in the US before and during their marriage. I tend to think PROVING fraud would be really nearly impossible. We aren't talking the guy left this gal for another. He's still with his wife and she is contemplating kicking him out.

What is your take on the fraud angle?

[floridalaurie 0]

I-864 only kicks in if EX uses means tested benefits from State and US government, you can be billed for those services.

Only way out of the I-864 binding contract is when one of the following 5 conditions are met.

• Immigrant Dies
• Sponsor Dies
• Immigrant works and is credited with 40 quarters of work.
• Immigrant leaves the USA and abandons LPR status
• Immigrant naturalizes and becomes a US citizen.

I've done some research on the internet before finding this site, and oh yea, if the alien knows how to work the system, you can get sued to provide a payment to the ex for 125% of poverty level as a support - check out existing New York and Florida cases...I don't have an extra $12K a year to give this guy if he won't work to offset the amount unless me and the munchkin live in a cardboard box somewhere to cut the expenses required to be able to pay him to sit on his butt. Some incentive for aliens to become "useful" residents of the States...there is no incentive for him to work or become a citizen if there are no penalties for his behavior, or lack thereof...

[YuAndDan 153]

I-864 only kicks in if EX uses means tested benefits from State and US government, you can be billed for those services.

Only way out of the I-864 binding contract is when one of the following 5 conditions are met.

• Immigrant Dies
• Sponsor Dies
• Immigrant works and is credited with 40 quarters of work.
• Immigrant leaves the USA and abandons LPR status
• Immigrant naturalizes and becomes a US citizen.

I've done some research on the internet before finding this site, and oh yea, if the alien knows how to work the system, you can get sued to provide a payment to the ex for 125% of poverty level as a support - check out existing New York and Florida cases...I don't have an extra $12K a year to give this guy if he won't work to offset the amount unless me and the munchkin live in a cardboard box somewhere to cut the expenses required to be able to pay him to sit on his butt. Some incentive for aliens to become "useful" residents of the States...there is no incentive for him to work or become a citizen if there are no penalties for his behavior, or lack thereof...

Only thing you can do is file a complaint with USCIS, and particularly with Immigrations and Customs Enforcement. This may cause problems for immigrant if and when trying to file I-751 to remove the conditions on green-card if they have a conditional card.

http://www.ice.gov/

[floridalaurie 0]

I-864 only kicks in if EX uses means tested benefits from State and US government, you can be billed for those services.

Only way out of the I-864 binding contract is when one of the following 5 conditions are met.

• Immigrant Dies
• Sponsor Dies
• Immigrant works and is credited with 40 quarters of work.
• Immigrant leaves the USA and abandons LPR status
• Immigrant naturalizes and becomes a US citizen.

I've done some research on the internet before finding this site, and oh yea, if the alien knows how to work the system, you can get sued to provide a payment to the ex for 125% of poverty level as a support - check out existing New York and Florida cases...I don't have an extra $12K a year to give this guy if he won't work to offset the amount unless me and the munchkin live in a cardboard box somewhere to cut the expenses required to be able to pay him to sit on his butt. Some incentive for aliens to become "useful" residents of the States...there is no incentive for him to work or become a citizen if there are no penalties for his behavior, or lack thereof...

Only thing you can do is file a complaint with USCIS, and particularly with Immigrations and Customs Enforcement. This may cause problems for immigrant if and when trying to file I-751 to remove the conditions on green-card if they have a conditional card.

http://www.ice.gov/

He is in Conditional Status as far as I know because we were married less than two years when he got here and got his card. I will check the link - thank you. I would hate for him not to be here to be part of his son's life, but if he isn't worried about supporting himself, never mind his son, obviously his priorities aren't in the right order.

[Traviesa 0]

This is exactly what stopped me from going forward with our IR-1 when I had doubts about the marriage (not fraud-related). I couldn't bring myself to send in that I-864. You're really stuck by it and at any point in time it can come back to bite you in the butt. I hope you find a way out. If you suspect and can prove any kind of fraud enough to get him out of the country that would end your responsibility. Otherwise, the soonest way out is his citizenship. Good luck!

[floridalaurie 0]

This is exactly what stopped me from going forward with our IR-1 when I had doubts about the marriage (not fraud-related). I couldn't bring myself to send in that I-864. You're really stuck by it and at any point in time it can come back to bite you in the butt. I hope you find a way out. If you suspect and can prove any kind of fraud enough to get him out of the country that would end your responsibility. Otherwise, the soonest way out is his citizenship. Good luck!

I already suspected we were in trouble, but idiot me thought it would be important for him to meet his son and for us to have a fresh start after the 1+ year wait for him to get here. I talked to an attorney and he said not to feel bad about that part because if I had stopped the process and someone else had then sponsored him to come over, he could have gotten here and snatched our little one before I even knew he was in the country.

Even the attorney does not know how this situation will play out with the family law judge which is why I thought I would ask about folks' personal experiences when I found this site today.

I even told the attorney I will support my son by myself (duh! I'm doing it now, though getting deeper in debt with no help from the spouse) if the spouse will get off his butt and get a job and agree to take care of himself...he says it all depends on the judge...

I feel like I am getting an ulcer living on pins and needles daily waiting to see what happens next...

[Traviesa 0]

This is exactly what stopped me from going forward with our IR-1 when I had doubts about the marriage (not fraud-related). I couldn't bring myself to send in that I-864. You're really stuck by it and at any point in time it can come back to bite you in the butt. I hope you find a way out. If you suspect and can prove any kind of fraud enough to get him out of the country that would end your responsibility. Otherwise, the soonest way out is his citizenship. Good luck!

I already suspected we were in trouble, but idiot me thought it would be important for him to meet his son and for us to have a fresh start after the 1+ year wait for him to get here. I talked to an attorney and he said not to feel bad about that part because if I had stopped the process and someone else had then sponsored him to come over, he could have gotten here and snatched our little one before I even knew he was in the country.

Even the attorney does not know how this situation will play out with the family law judge which is why I thought I would ask about folks' personal experiences when I found this site today.

I even told the attorney I will support my son by myself (duh! I'm doing it now, though getting deeper in debt with no help from the spouse) if the spouse will get off his butt and get a job and agree to take care of himself...he says it all depends on the judge...

I feel like I am getting an ulcer living on pins and needles daily waiting to see what happens next...

No, you're not an idiot, how many people go through this process so carelessly-at least you thought about it. I just got hung up on that 10 years thing...oh my gosh, that's assuming he gets a job right away. I just imagined myself 35, married to someone else with 2 kids, probably living paycheck to paycheck, then the US Government coming and taking me to court because he got injured and had to start mooching...kept me up at night! I-864 is a scary scary thing. It amazes me how many people are in such a hurry to put their name on the line.

Basically unfortunately, the quickest way out of the I-864 obligation (assuming he's staying in the country) is for him to become a citizen, which if he's not married to you will take 5 years, assuming he knows what he's doing and that's what he decides to do. Other than death, that's it. If you stay married he can become a citizen in 3 years, just food for thought.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I-864 only kicks in if EX uses means tested benefits from State and US government, you can be billed for those services.

Only way out of the I-864 binding contract is when one of the following 5 conditions are met.

• Immigrant Dies
• Sponsor Dies
• Immigrant works and is credited with 40 quarters of work.
• Immigrant leaves the USA and abandons LPR status
• Immigrant naturalizes and becomes a US citizen.

I brought up these points. So, someone says to me "what if you can prove fraud?" This person I am referring to has made statements that she can prove from some phone bills he has that he was seeing someone else in the US before and during their marriage. I tend to think PROVING fraud would be really nearly impossible. We aren't talking the guy left this gal for another. He's still with his wife and she is contemplating kicking him out.

What is your take on the fraud angle?

Proving fraud to the USCIS would more than likely involve written statements or utterances that your spouse made to either yourself or others, and such statements making reference to his "entering the marriage solely to gain residency" directly or implied. Implied would take other peculiarities in conjunction to present a compelling case before the IJ. Having illicit relations with another person, or a dalliance during the marriage is not always indicative of fraud or an alien's initial intent for the marriage to be simply a vehicle to secure permanent residency. Indicative of an alien's lack of respect, and commitment, perhaps, but not necessarily indicative of his intent upon entering into the marriage in the first place.

I-864 only kicks in if EX uses means tested benefits from State and US government, you can be billed for those services.

Only way out of the I-864 binding contract is when one of the following 5 conditions are met.

• Immigrant Dies
• Sponsor Dies
• Immigrant works and is credited with 40 quarters of work.
• Immigrant leaves the USA and abandons LPR status
• Immigrant naturalizes and becomes a US citizen.

I brought up these points. So, someone says to me "what if you can prove fraud?" This person I am referring to has made statements that she can prove from some phone bills he has that he was seeing someone else in the US before and during their marriage. I tend to think PROVING fraud would be really nearly impossible. We aren't talking the guy left this gal for another. He's still with his wife and she is contemplating kicking him out.

What is your take on the fraud angle?

Proving fraud to the USCIS would more than likely involve written statements or utterances that your spouse made to either yourself or others, and such statements making reference to his "entering the marriage solely to gain residency" directly or implied. Implied would take other peculiarities in conjunction to present a compelling case before USCIS and or the IJ. Having illicit relations with another person, or a dalliance during the marriage is not always indicative of fraud or an alien's initial intent for the marriage to be simply a vehicle to secure permanent residency. Indicative of an alien's lack of respect, and commitment, perhaps, but not necessarily indicative of his intent upon entering into the marriage in the first place.

[desert_fox 32]

Do not sign any papers whatsoever that would get your child a passport.

See a family lawyer.

[floridalaurie 0]

Do not sign any papers whatsoever that would get your child a passport.

See a family lawyer.

I am working with a firm that deals with family law and immigration, but so far, every one involved is acting like having a child in this situation is so new that no one knows how the deal will work... But yes, once I realized that Jordan is NOT part of the Hague Convention, I put my son's name on the list to NOT be granted a passport and that I am to be notified if anyone attempts to sign him up for one. (Since it requires both parents' signatures these days to get one, the attorney says he would get in trouble for fraud if he attempts it).

Any of you women who are NOT Muslim and have children with somebody from the Middle East, beware - Israel is the ONLY country in that region that participates in the Hague Convention and you will NOT have any custodial rights if your children get taken over to the Middle East. Even if a court in Jordan found my ex unfit to be a father, HIS MOTHER would be next in line for custody...

I can handle supporting my son - well, I will figure out a way, but I cannot support my ex too - what happens if I end up filing bankruptcy and no longer make enough to meet the requirements of the I-864? I wonder if he would have to get another sponsor or face being deported???

[rebeccajo 14]

I'm not sure exactly what 'support' you are worrying about having to provide.

The I864 holds the USC responsible if the immigrant avails themselves of means-tested benefits. That 'support' is different than the type of support a family judge may award your husband (if that is your concern).

I've heard (and the Mermaid might know more about this) that there is some family case law wherein the immigrant presented the I864 to the family judge as evidence that the USC had agreed to 'support' them for 10 years, and prevailed. I've also heard this is very rare. Personally, I think it would take a judge asleep at the wheel to interpret the document in that manner, but I don't have a law degree so that makes my opinion pretty much without merit.

Edited November 13, 2007 by rebeccajo

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I'm not sure exactly what 'support' you are worrying about having to provide.

The I864 holds the USC responsible if the immigrant avails themselves of means-tested benefits. That 'support' is different than the type of support a family judge may award your husband (if that is your concern).

I've heard (and the Mermaid might know more about this) that there is some family case law wherein the immigrant presented the I864 to the family judge as evidence that the USC had agreed to 'support' them for 10 years, and prevailed. I've also heard this is very rare. Personally, I think it would take a judge asleep at the wheel to interpret the document in that manner, but I don't have a law degree so that makes my opinion pretty much without merit.

Let's address this issue of support. First, the I864 is a binding contract between the "petitioner" (the USC sponsor) and the US government. That contract is irrevocable and obliges the USC sponsor to make certain that the alien does not avail him or herself of means-tested benefits until he or she is eligible. IF the alien does avail him or herself of such benefits, the terms of the I-864 articulate that the government agency that has provided aid to the alien has the right to and can make a claim for reimbursement from the USC sponsor. And if such agency chooses to do so, the sponsor would either remit payment or face a legal claim from the agency for reimbursement. If the USC sponsor were faced with a lawsuit from the agency, the extant contract (the I-864) would afford the agency judgment in their favour and the USC sponsor would have to pay up.

Agencies have that right. Do they all decide to pursue it? No. But it can and does happen.

Now, as far as the other form of support that rebeccajo alludes to is concerned, this is quite different. First, the I-864 is a contract between the USC sponsor and the US government, and is irrevocable. There have been quite a number of separate civil lawsuits of late filed by aliens that are divorced from USC sponsors to seek some sort of financial aid, using the extant I-864 as a tool to demonstrate that the USC pledged to the government that the alien would not become a ward; that the alien would not have to resort to government aid and that the USC sponsor was going to assure the government of this by asserting that the alien would be kept and provided for to the sum of 125% of the poverty guideline figure ( a figure that would obviate qualification for aid).

These lawsuits, while few in number compared to the vast number of divorced aliens in the USA, can be and have been successful. One may google "Stump v Stump" a recent Pennsylvania case to see that the USC sponsor can find him or herself providing a sum up to 125% of the Poverty guideline figure for each year that the alien's own income falls below that, until such time the the alien satisfies the Affidavit of Support, by either naturalising, meeting the threshhold that the Social Security Administration has established of 40 qualifying calendar quarters of work, leaves the country permanently or dies. The judgment awarded to an alien that seeks remedy by virtue of this sort of civil lawsuit, would be the difference between his or her own income and that specified as 125% poverty line figure.

Here's the BIG rub! In Stump v. Stump, the court determined that the language of the I-864 does not articulate that the alien has any obligation to mitigate or improve his or her circumstances. In other words, the court ruled that there is no requirement that the alien mitigate the damages that a potential USC sponsor might incur by seeking work! So, in the worst case, a USC sponsor might find him or herself in such a lawsuit and with a judgment to provide 125% of the poverty guideline figure in damages to the alien for each year that the alien does not earn, and without any requirement for the alien to better his or her income, or even work at all!

While this might appear a gloomy prospect for any USC sponsor, it can be and is, in some situations, reality.

Edited November 13, 2007 by diadromous mermaid