Boy Who Fled Country With Teacher May Get Visa to Return to U.S.

[MaRob 0]

So now all the illegal immigrants have to do is accuse someone of sexual abuse, rape, or sexual abuse of one of their children and bingo, visa issued with greencard to follow.

One last thought/question... and I'm not being sarcastic, really curious to what everyone thinks... what part of being in a country illegally gives the person rights and protection under the law? If I snuck into another country illegally, and something bad happened to me there, do I have the right to ask for justice or protection from that country? (I understand this may not be the situation in this case though).. .just wondering what everyone thinks again.

Dunno I'd find it hard to support the idea that just because a person is here illegally that they therefore have no right to basic justice. From a common sense POV how would that even work - would the authorities not prosecute a case for murder, assault or rape just because the victim isn't of legal status? I'm not sure we can, in good conscience, waive or otherwise deny certain basic human rights simply because of immigration status. Opens a pretty big backdoor to a place I'm not sure I'd want to go. Again, in good conscience...

I am not saying that they have NO right to basic justice. I was just trying to look at it from a different perspective... thats all. If I were to sneak into another country, not even mexico necessarily... maybe europe... and somehow got enrolled in school there (i doubt they are so lax in their admissions process as to not ask for residency status)... and a teacher raped me... yes, i believe that they would prosecute that teacher maybe, but there would be no way in heck that i would be able to stay there once they found out i was there illegally. I don't know all the consequences that would bring to me.. but for sure they would ship my butt back to the US and ban and fine maybe.. who knows.. maybe they wouldn't ship me back and I would be in prison right along side my teacher... dunno.. it just doesn't seem like bc something bad happens to you, its an automatic free ticket...

[hmm1 0]

It is pretty simple, I do not understand all the disagreeing...try the teacher for her sexual misconduct and then deport the kid and his family. If ICE was smart, they would use the family to find the other illegals in the community. Just one question, how the he!! did the kid enroll in school. We have to many systems in place with different ideas. Seems like the school officials should be tried as well for allowing illegals to soak up our tax dollars...but then again, it will never happen because the kid was a victim...shame on us for wasting millions of dollars to construct laws only to not enforce them...oh well.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So now all the illegal immigrants have to do is accuse someone of sexual abuse, rape, or sexual abuse of one of their children and bingo, visa issued with greencard to follow.

One last thought/question... and I'm not being sarcastic, really curious to what everyone thinks... what part of being in a country illegally gives the person rights and protection under the law? If I snuck into another country illegally, and something bad happened to me there, do I have the right to ask for justice or protection from that country? (I understand this may not be the situation in this case though).. .just wondering what everyone thinks again.

Dunno I'd find it hard to support the idea that just because a person is here illegally that they therefore have no right to basic justice. From a common sense POV how would that even work - would the authorities not prosecute a case for murder, assault or rape just because the victim isn't of legal status? I'm not sure we can, in good conscience, waive or otherwise deny certain basic human rights simply because of immigration status. Opens a pretty big backdoor to a place I'm not sure I'd want to go. Again, in good conscience...

I am not saying that they have NO right to basic justice. I was just trying to look at it from a different perspective... thats all. If I were to sneak into another country, not even mexico necessarily... maybe europe... and somehow got enrolled in school there (i doubt they are so lax in their admissions process as to not ask for residency status)... and a teacher raped me... yes, i believe that they would prosecute that teacher maybe, but there would be no way in heck that i would be able to stay there once they found out i was there illegally. I don't know all the consequences that would bring to me.. but for sure they would ship my butt back to the US and ban and fine maybe.. who knows.. maybe they wouldn't ship me back and I would be in prison right along side my teacher... dunno.. it just doesn't seem like bc something bad happens to you, its an automatic free ticket...

Dunno - I remember at least one story in the UK where a completely unqualified person masqueraded as a qualified doctor, so I don't think its beyond the realms of possiblity.

Offhand I imagine that the authorities might have trouble gaining cooperation from witnesses if they didn't have a carrot to offer, as it were...

Regardless I think that like in most cases the USCIS has a broad latitude of discretion when it comes to things like this.

[natty bumppo 297]

The deportation should happen no later than after conviction. What about being a victim grants a "free pass"?

The desire to treat all victims with humanity. This isn't for just any old crime, however minor, this is for victims of very serious crimes.

Don't want to be deported ... don't be here illegally.

Just deserts?

I don't understand this, I really don't. I know there is a simple logic at work, but really this would leave an underclass of people vulnerable to abuse.

I don't know, but I assume that law enforcement agencies are behind this legislation and have good reason to be so.

Just a few simple questions:

Where is the "underclass of people vulnerable to abuse"?

Doesn't this give special treatment to illegals?

What type of equal value "free pass" would a USC victim receive for reporting a “like” crime?

The illegal people need to report the crime and assist justice to happen for this crime. And ... they need to be prepared for equal justice from the US for the crime they committed by being illegal.

Looking from another angle .... shouldn’t the US also grant LPR status to legal visitor crime victims? ... Equal treatment for “guests” ... yes?

Edited November 13, 2007 by Natty Bumppo

[Dan J 277]

Since the student is not a citizen, what incentive does he have to cooperate with the investigation and trial if he is only going to be sent back home? Its quite possible that the case alone isn't strong enough without the student's cooperation and the cant be help in contempt if he has been deported.

[jundp 191]

In many school districts a child doesn't have to prove US Citizenship to attend school. Also, thanks to the NCLB Act, students who are learning English have up to 3 years to prove proficiency and states can allow another 2 years if needed. For the first 3 years, the school district can choose to test the students in their native language (in my area it is primarily Spanish), but most schools that I know usually test in English after the first year.

Obviously this varies from district to district and only applies to public schools. But many private schools are even less rigorous in their requirements. I teach in a private school and a student doesn't have to prove USC status, but they do need a SSN. Not sure how it works everywhere else.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The deportation should happen no later than after conviction. What about being a victim grants a "free pass"?

The desire to treat all victims with humanity. This isn't for just any old crime, however minor, this is for victims of very serious crimes.

Don't want to be deported ... don't be here illegally.

Just deserts?

I don't understand this, I really don't. I know there is a simple logic at work, but really this would leave an underclass of people vulnerable to abuse.

I don't know, but I assume that law enforcement agencies are behind this legislation and have good reason to be so.

Just a few simple questions:

Where is the "underclass of people vulnerable to abuse"?

Doesn't this give special treatment to illegals?

What type of equal value "free pass" would a USC victim receive for reporting a “like” crime?

The illegal people need to report the crime and assist justice to happen for this crime. And ... they need to be prepared for equal justice from the US for the crime they committed by being illegal.

Looking from another angle .... shouldn’t the US also grant LPR status to legal visitors? ... Equal treatment for “guests” ... yes?

From a practical perspective - this would involve the illegal being maintained and paid for out of the public purse while the criminal case goes to trial.

The question that immediately springs to my mind is what motivation the illegal would have to go through with this - outside of some real, sustained hatred and anger at the perpetrator. If you're facing the choice between staying in jail for however long before a case goes to trial and subsequently being deported, Vs. being deported right away - it probably isn't a difficult choice to make.

[Peikko 1,575]

The underclass of people vulnerable to abuse are people who will not seek criminal redress (probably don't now for the most part) because the inevitable result is their own deportation.

There are many instances where plea bargains are sought, so I assume this comes in the same category. The law enforcement agencies want the crime to be prosecuted so they will give some lesser criminals a free pass if that means they get to the bigger guys.

It's again, not a question of giving illegal aliens a 'reward' for being a victim, but a way of ensuring serious crimes that would otherwise go unreported, get brought before the justice system.

Edited November 13, 2007 by Purple_Hibiscus

[natty bumppo 297]

Just a few simple questions:

Where is the "underclass of people vulnerable to abuse"?

Doesn't this give special treatment to illegals?

What type of equal value "free pass" would a USC victim receive for reporting a “like” crime?

The illegal people need to report the crime and assist justice to happen for this crime. And ... they need to be prepared for equal justice from the US for the crime they committed by being illegal.

Looking from another angle .... shouldn’t the US also grant LPR status to legal visitors? ... Equal treatment for “guests” ... yes?

From a practical perspective - this would involve the illegal being maintained and paid for out of the public purse while the criminal case goes to trial.

The question that immediately springs to my mind is what motivation the illegal would have to go through with this - outside of some real, sustained hatred and anger at the perpetrator. If you're facing the choice between staying in jail for however long before a case goes to trial and subsequently being deported, Vs. being deported right away - it probably isn't a difficult choice to make.

That is is one option ... to jail the illegal .. min. security will do. They are a victim ... report the crime or it may/will happen to another human being ... come-on illegals ... show compassion for your fellow humans ... and stop the perp(s). Just think ... this may not have happened to them if someone else reported the crime.

[Peikko 1,575]

Was your sarcasm on for that post?

If you view the Visa as an aid to justice rather than a reward, you just might see it would serve a legitimate purpose.

[Dan J 277]

Just a few simple questions:

Where is the "underclass of people vulnerable to abuse"?

Doesn't this give special treatment to illegals?

What type of equal value "free pass" would a USC victim receive for reporting a “like” crime?

The illegal people need to report the crime and assist justice to happen for this crime. And ... they need to be prepared for equal justice from the US for the crime they committed by being illegal.

Looking from another angle .... shouldn’t the US also grant LPR status to legal visitors? ... Equal treatment for “guests” ... yes?

From a practical perspective - this would involve the illegal being maintained and paid for out of the public purse while the criminal case goes to trial.

The question that immediately springs to my mind is what motivation the illegal would have to go through with this - outside of some real, sustained hatred and anger at the perpetrator. If you're facing the choice between staying in jail for however long before a case goes to trial and subsequently being deported, Vs. being deported right away - it probably isn't a difficult choice to make.

That is is one option ... to jail the illegal .. min. security will do. They are a victim ... report the crime or it may/will happen to another human being ... come-on illegals ... show compassion for your fellow humans ... and stop the perp(s). Just think ... this may not have happened to them if someone else reported the crime.

You do realize this person is already in Mexico, and has an opportunity for a U visa.

[natty bumppo 297]

The underclass of people vulnerable to abuse are people who will not seek criminal redress (probably don't now for the most part) because the inevitable result is their own deportation.

There are many instances where plea bargains are sought, so I assume this comes in the same category. The law enforcement agencies want the crime to be prosecuted so they will give some lesser criminals a free pass if that means they get to the bigger guys.

It's again, not a question of giving illegal aliens a 'reward' for being a victim, but a way of ensuring serious crimes that would otherwise go unreported, get brought before the justice system.

So … another solution is … don’t come to the US illegally if you fear being a victim (do you go places where you fear being a victim?)

Plea bargain … get a LPR for being illegal and a crime victim while illegal … what a joke.

The best plea … and this could be called the one-time-deal-of-the-century … is deportation and forgiveness of prior illegal status with the ability to submit a normal visa application (at the end of the line) for a testimony with conviction.

Back to the earlier question …

Looking from another angle .... shouldn’t the US also grant LPR status to legal visitor crime victims? ... Equal treatment for “guests” ... yes?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Just a few simple questions:

Where is the "underclass of people vulnerable to abuse"?

Doesn't this give special treatment to illegals?

What type of equal value "free pass" would a USC victim receive for reporting a “like†crime?

The illegal people need to report the crime and assist justice to happen for this crime. And ... they need to be prepared for equal justice from the US for the crime they committed by being illegal.

Looking from another angle .... shouldn’t the US also grant LPR status to legal visitors? ... Equal treatment for “guests†... yes?

From a practical perspective - this would involve the illegal being maintained and paid for out of the public purse while the criminal case goes to trial.

The question that immediately springs to my mind is what motivation the illegal would have to go through with this - outside of some real, sustained hatred and anger at the perpetrator. If you're facing the choice between staying in jail for however long before a case goes to trial and subsequently being deported, Vs. being deported right away - it probably isn't a difficult choice to make.

That is is one option ... to jail the illegal .. min. security will do. They are a victim ... report the crime or it may/will happen to another human being ... come-on illegals ... show compassion for your fellow humans ... and stop the perp(s). Just think ... this may not have happened to them if someone else reported the crime.

I don't think the human nature of the illegal alien is much different or removed from that of everyone else.

In this case Dan rightly points out that the victim is currently in Mexico. In order to prosecute the woman under US law they really need the kid in the US don't they?

Edited November 13, 2007 by Number 6

[natty bumppo 297]

Just a few simple questions:

Where is the "underclass of people vulnerable to abuse"?

Doesn't this give special treatment to illegals?

What type of equal value "free pass" would a USC victim receive for reporting a “like†crime?

The illegal people need to report the crime and assist justice to happen for this crime. And ... they need to be prepared for equal justice from the US for the crime they committed by being illegal.

Looking from another angle .... shouldn’t the US also grant LPR status to legal visitors? ... Equal treatment for “guests†... yes?

From a practical perspective - this would involve the illegal being maintained and paid for out of the public purse while the criminal case goes to trial.

The question that immediately springs to my mind is what motivation the illegal would have to go through with this - outside of some real, sustained hatred and anger at the perpetrator. If you're facing the choice between staying in jail for however long before a case goes to trial and subsequently being deported, Vs. being deported right away - it probably isn't a difficult choice to make.

That is is one option ... to jail the illegal .. min. security will do. They are a victim ... report the crime or it may/will happen to another human being ... come-on illegals ... show compassion for your fellow humans ... and stop the perp(s). Just think ... this may not have happened to them if someone else reported the crime.

I don't think the human nature of the illegal alien is much different or removed from that of everyone else.

In this case Dan rightly points out that the victim is currently in Mexico. In order to prosecute the woman under US law they really need the kid in the US don't they?

Bring him back ... he's illegal ... treat him nice ... polite ... get the prosecution ... then send him back. If he refuses to return ... there is always Mexico laws for the lady.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Edit to add: Essentially it comes down to whether or not you think the crime is worth prosecuting at all. The authorities clearly do, and presumably this wouldn't be on the table if it weren't key to the prosecution case.