Boy Who Fled Country With Teacher May Get Visa to Return to U.S.

[no name 1]

What's with the condescending attitude? OTT in my opinion. You can't know what this person knows and yet you are sure you know more? That's comes across as arrogant.

The U visa is to allow for illegal immigrants who are the victims of violent crime to come forward and report the crime. If they were not granted the visa, they wouldn't report the crime as it would result in their own deportation (some obviously do think that this is what should happen, illegals deserve everything they get). It appears as though this visa has been in place since 2000 (at least from the website quoted previously) so not a visa created to fit this particular case.

The only thing that makes this case a crime is because the victim was under the age of legal sexual consent. One can't conveniently ignore that because some of us aren't convinced this is a 'genuine' case. On top of the that incontrovertible fact, how does anyone conclude anything about the reality of the abuse from a few articles they have read? Seems a little unreasonable to me.

It appears as if there are people here who see the granting of legal status as some kind of reward for being a victim of what some seem to think is a bogus crime. Very strange.

Again, your opinion of this, is at best heresay which is no basis to make a decision that has grave consequences on a child's life. These laws are here to protect all children, not just children who you (whoever is making a judgment that this is a case of fraud) feel are deserving of said protection.

However, your opinion is that this isn't a crime because the sex was consensual, so at some level you do feel that to claim it is a crime is fraudulent.

Why is that so? The objective of the U visa is to ensure that victims of crime come forward and report that crime. This isn't going to happen if the end result is deportation. It may stick in some craws of some, but I guess these are people who believe that illegals deserve everything that happens to them, including being victims of criminal activity.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So now all the illegal immigrants have to do is accuse someone of sexual abuse, rape, or sexual abuse of one of their children and bingo, visa issued with greencard to follow.

One last thought/question... and I'm not being sarcastic, really curious to what everyone thinks... what part of being in a country illegally gives the person rights and protection under the law? If I snuck into another country illegally, and something bad happened to me there, do I have the right to ask for justice or protection from that country? (I understand this may not be the situation in this case though).. .just wondering what everyone thinks again.

Dunno I'd find it hard to support the idea that just because a person is here illegally that they therefore have no right to basic justice. From a common sense POV how would that even work - would the authorities not prosecute a case for murder, assault or rape just because the victim isn't of legal status? I'm not sure we can, in good conscience, waive or otherwise deny certain basic human rights simply because of immigration status. Opens a pretty big backdoor to a place I'm not sure I'd want to go. Again, in good conscience...

[Peikko 1,575]

I came to the conclusion that the problem wasn't that illegals are seen differently under the law, but that illegals quite naturally avoid contact with the police and being involved in prosecution of a case because of the deportation issues.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Dev, shouting loudly doesn't make what you say true. The woman was in a position of power over the boy and the law is quite clear that a boy of 13 isn't capable of the rationale to understand the meaning of this type of relationship.

Either you accept that precept, or you don't, in all cases.

Are you saying that in your opinion a 13 year old boy is capable of making these kinds of decisions so that the law is wrong? Or, are you saying that some 13 year old boys are making these kind of decisions so the law should be changed to accommodate these cases? (bearing in mind, that if you did fudge the law in this way, it would make the prosecution of any adult having sex with a child extremely difficult)

The law is quite clear, if you are under age, you can't make these decisions, period.

oh, wasn't aware an exclamation mark was shouting, I thought that was ALL CAPS?

I could care less about this jerk. He will now get LPR, cuz he was 'lucky' enough to (willingly) shag his teacher & go on a vacation with her. Too bad he was 13 so he cannot legally 'decide' for himself. Oh well, no worries - she will be prosecuted & he gets to stay legally in America. What a nice loophole.

MaryKay Letourneau married her 'abusee' & his family's case against her was thrown out. But I see everyone has (conveniently) glossed over that part of the thread.

so it's all about the greencard right... he doesn't deserve any justice.. if it were a girl, they'd all be crying justice.. a boy can consent, but a girl can't?..

So, you wanna change the law? consenting minors are not considered sexually abused? cuz they said ok?

Did I say that?

I'm pointing out what the article says & going off what he said:

Fernando Rodriguez, described Peterson in letters as his “Baby Gurl,” and claimed their relationship was “not just about the sex but that it was pretty good,” according to court documents.

well, what would you propose? kids who happily had sex with their abusers, are not to be considered sexually abused kids? he can say she was the love of his life, and still that doesn't make it less of a sex crime.. it's easy, if you have sex with a minor, it's illegal..

Haven't there been instances where this has actually happened - involving mormon marriages of old men to young girls, and people in cults?

[chris4gretchen 1]

haha

yea right.. go to any food processing plant.. to see usc's only working for 2 weeks and then leaving.. or farm jobs.. cuz the illegals block the usc's and residents of getting those jobs!!

Oh wow. man you opened my eyes!!!! guess that plant was never even there before all those illegals got jobs there, since of course no legal residents would do the work. And i guess those farms just never grew anything since there was NO ONE to pick the crops before the illegal immigrats came. thank god they are here to help out now.. Glad you so enlightened me, i am astounded by your knowledge on the situation.

Chris

Edited November 12, 2007 by chris4gretchen

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What's with the condescending attitude? OTT in my opinion. You can't know what this person knows and yet you are sure you know more? That's comes across as arrogant.

The U visa is to allow for illegal immigrants who are the victims of violent crime to come forward and report the crime. If they were not granted the visa, they wouldn't report the crime as it would result in their own deportation (some obviously do think that this is what should happen, illegals deserve everything they get). It appears as though this visa has been in place since 2000 (at least from the website quoted previously) so not a visa created to fit this particular case.

The only thing that makes this case a crime is because the victim was under the age of legal sexual consent. One can't conveniently ignore that because some of us aren't convinced this is a 'genuine' case. On top of the that incontrovertible fact, how does anyone conclude anything about the reality of the abuse from a few articles they have read? Seems a little unreasonable to me.

It appears as if there are people here who see the granting of legal status as some kind of reward for being a victim of what some seem to think is a bogus crime. Very strange.

Again, your opinion of this, is at best heresay which is no basis to make a decision that has grave consequences on a child's life. These laws are here to protect all children, not just children who you (whoever is making a judgment that this is a case of fraud) feel are deserving of said protection.

However, your opinion is that this isn't a crime because the sex was consensual, so at some level you do feel that to claim it is a crime is fraudulent.

Why is that so? The objective of the U visa is to ensure that victims of crime come forward and report that crime. This isn't going to happen if the end result is deportation. It may stick in some craws of some, but I guess these are people who believe that illegals deserve everything that happens to them, including being victims of criminal activity.

Hmm... whatever you perceive as condescension from PH or anyone else - it doesn't change the fact that post #104 was arrogant, rude and condescending. Nor indeed - does it excuse it. But that's just me.

Edit - as far as "film productions" go - I can rattle off a fair few that are based on true stories and events but which are pretty dubious as far as their historical or other accuracy.

Edited November 12, 2007 by Number 6

[Peikko 1,575]

What is Statutory Rape?

It’s a crime committed when an adult has sexual intercourse with a minor. Who is a minor? Anyone under the age of 18, (or 16; check this list and the current laws in your state.)

What can happen if an adult has sex with a minor? Even if he is your boyfriend? If reported, that person may be arrested, tried in a court of law, and sent to jail. What happens if the sex is consensual and one is a minor? Even if they both agree to have sex, it is still statutory rape.

Q. What can happen if an adult has sex with a minor? Even if he is your boyfriend and even if your parents allow it?

A. If reported, that person can be arrested, tried in a court of law, and sent to jail.

Q. What happens if the sex is consensual and one is a minor?

A. Even if they both agree to have sex, it is still statutory rape.

What can happen if an adult has sex with a minor? Even if he is your boyfriend and even if your parents allow it?

A. If reported, that person may be arrested, tried in a court of law, and sent to jail.

Q. What happens if the sex is consensual and one is a minor?

A. Even if they both agree to have sex, it is still statutory rape. Don’t go to jail for not waiting to have sex. It’s not worth it. You do not want to go to jail! I know its hard to wait, but wait.

Seems pretty clear. The ages differ per state, with several states having different ages for different sexes and S.Carolina coming in with the lowest age at 14 for females.

[no name 1]

Hmm... whatever you perceive as condescension from PH or anyone else - it doesn't change the fact that post #104 was arrogant, rude and condescending. Nor indeed - does it excuse it. But that's just me.

Edit - as far as "film productions" go - I can rattle off a fair few that are based on true stories and events but which are pretty dubious as far as their historical or other accuracy.

and post #103 wasn't? Gimme a break.

I didn't say all film productions, did I? I only know LEGALLY what we needed to do/say for our film.

Maybe I should find that roach pic.....hmmmm.

Edited November 12, 2007 by devilette

[natty bumppo 297]

I came to the conclusion that the problem wasn't that illegals are seen differently under the law, but that illegals quite naturally avoid contact with the police and being involved in prosecution of a case because of the deportation issues.

The deportation should happen no later than immediately after conviction. What about being a victim grants a "free pass"?

Don't want to be deported ... don't be here illegally.

Edited November 12, 2007 by Natty Bumppo

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Hmm... whatever you perceive as condescension from PH or anyone else - it doesn't change the fact that post #104 was arrogant, rude and condescending. Nor indeed - does it excuse it. But that's just me.

Edit - as far as "film productions" go - I can rattle off a fair few that are based on true stories and events but which are pretty dubious as far as their historical or other accuracy.

and post #103 wasn't? Gimme a break.

I didn't say all film productions, did I? I only know LEGALLY what we needed to do/say for our film.

Maybe I should find that roach pic.....hmmmm.

Not the point - and indeed that's not condescending either is it? Apparently its somehow OK if someone else is doing it... Dunno about you - but I thought individuals were responsible for their own behaviour.

I know you didn't say "all film productions", but you were the one who was suggesting that you somehow had more intimate and detailed knowledge of the events than the person who lives in the community and works with the person's collleagues. I'm not saying you don't have that knowledge either - just that dismissing someone out of hand seems well... rude.

[no name 1]

Hmm... whatever you perceive as condescension from PH or anyone else - it doesn't change the fact that post #104 was arrogant, rude and condescending. Nor indeed - does it excuse it. But that's just me.

Edit - as far as "film productions" go - I can rattle off a fair few that are based on true stories and events but which are pretty dubious as far as their historical or other accuracy.

and post #103 wasn't? Gimme a break.

I didn't say all film productions, did I? I only know LEGALLY what we needed to do/say for our film.

Maybe I should find that roach pic.....hmmmm.

Not the point - and indeed that's not condescending either is it? Apparently its somehow OK if someone else is doing it... Dunno about you - but I thought individuals were responsible for their own behaviour.

I know you didn't say "all film productions", but you were the one who was suggesting that you somehow had more intimate and detailed knowledge of the events than the person who lives in the community and works with the person's collleagues. I'm not saying you don't have that knowledge either - just that dismissing someone out of hand seems well... rude.

And of course you need to weigh in on something that has nothing to do with you. They call it piggy-backing.

Re-read post #103 & tell me who dismissed who.

I came to the conclusion that the problem wasn't that illegals are seen differently under the law, but that illegals quite naturally avoid contact with the police and being involved in prosecution of a case because of the deportation issues.

The deportation should happen no later than immediately after conviction. What about being a victim grants a "free pass"?

Exactly.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Hmm... whatever you perceive as condescension from PH or anyone else - it doesn't change the fact that post #104 was arrogant, rude and condescending. Nor indeed - does it excuse it. But that's just me.

Edit - as far as "film productions" go - I can rattle off a fair few that are based on true stories and events but which are pretty dubious as far as their historical or other accuracy.

and post #103 wasn't? Gimme a break.

I didn't say all film productions, did I? I only know LEGALLY what we needed to do/say for our film.

Maybe I should find that roach pic.....hmmmm.

Not the point - and indeed that's not condescending either is it? Apparently its somehow OK if someone else is doing it... Dunno about you - but I thought individuals were responsible for their own behaviour.

I know you didn't say "all film productions", but you were the one who was suggesting that you somehow had more intimate and detailed knowledge of the events than the person who lives in the community and works with the person's collleagues. I'm not saying you don't have that knowledge either - just that dismissing someone out of hand seems well... rude.

And of course you need to weigh in on something that has nothing to do with you. They call it piggy-backing.

Re-read post #103 & tell me who dismissed who.

Well again its a public forum - I objected to the rudeness in your post, nothing more. Still if you think that your post was an appropriate response to what Jundp wrote then I guess that's up to you.

Edited November 13, 2007 by Number 6

[natty bumppo 297]

I came to the conclusion that the problem wasn't that illegals are seen differently under the law, but that illegals quite naturally avoid contact with the police and being involved in prosecution of a case because of the deportation issues.

The deportation should happen no later than immediately after conviction. What about being a victim grants a "free pass"?

Exactly.

this assists the prosecution to happen ... and also gives the victim time to get ready to leave.

Edited November 13, 2007 by Natty Bumppo

[Peikko 1,575]

The deportation should happen no later than after conviction. What about being a victim grants a "free pass"?

The desire to treat all victims with humanity. This isn't for just any old crime, however minor, this is for victims of very serious crimes.

Don't want to be deported ... don't be here illegally.

Just deserts?

I don't understand this, I really don't. I know there is a simple logic at work, but really this would leave an underclass of people vulnerable to abuse.

I don't know, but I assume that law enforcement agencies are behind this legislation and have good reason to be so.

[jundp 191]

Hmm... whatever you perceive as condescension from PH or anyone else - it doesn't change the fact that post #104 was arrogant, rude and condescending. Nor indeed - does it excuse it. But that's just me.

Edit - as far as "film productions" go - I can rattle off a fair few that are based on true stories and events but which are pretty dubious as far as their historical or other accuracy.

and post #103 wasn't? Gimme a break.

I didn't say all film productions, did I? I only know LEGALLY what we needed to do/say for our film.

Maybe I should find that roach pic.....hmmmm.

No I don't think my post was condescending or rude. It certainly wasn't intended that way. But the fact remains that those outside the community will have a different perspective. I tend to trust the children, classmates, colleagues, and friends of mine who were involved and had first-hand knowledge. I'm not calling you names or telling you that you are wrong, just saying that these are two different stories. There is no need for you to put a "back on topic" icon in your post when you took the thread OT to begin with by comparing this situation to MKL's. I'm sorry but the fact that you work in the film industry doesn't automatically impress me or make me want to ignore my personal knowledge from being part of this community. I'm not sure what you took offense to, but that's not my problem.