Boy Who Fled Country With Teacher May Get Visa to Return to U.S.

[natty bumppo 297]

Was your sarcasm on for that post?

If you view the Visa as an aid to justice rather than a reward, you just might see it would serve a legitimate purpose.

I don’t view gaining LPR status as a realistic aid to criminal justice. Too much room for fraud.

And I also want justice too … I consider their support in prosecuting the perp(s) as their aid to criminal justice … with their deportation their aid to USC’s justice to illegal aliens.

[Dan J 277]

Just a few simple questions:

Where is the "underclass of people vulnerable to abuse"?

Doesn't this give special treatment to illegals?

What type of equal value "free pass" would a USC victim receive for reporting a “like†crime?

The illegal people need to report the crime and assist justice to happen for this crime. And ... they need to be prepared for equal justice from the US for the crime they committed by being illegal.

Looking from another angle .... shouldn’t the US also grant LPR status to legal visitors? ... Equal treatment for “guests†... yes?

From a practical perspective - this would involve the illegal being maintained and paid for out of the public purse while the criminal case goes to trial.

The question that immediately springs to my mind is what motivation the illegal would have to go through with this - outside of some real, sustained hatred and anger at the perpetrator. If you're facing the choice between staying in jail for however long before a case goes to trial and subsequently being deported, Vs. being deported right away - it probably isn't a difficult choice to make.

That is is one option ... to jail the illegal .. min. security will do. They are a victim ... report the crime or it may/will happen to another human being ... come-on illegals ... show compassion for your fellow humans ... and stop the perp(s). Just think ... this may not have happened to them if someone else reported the crime.

I don't think the human nature of the illegal alien is much different or removed from that of everyone else.

In this case Dan rightly points out that the victim is currently in Mexico. In order to prosecute the woman under US law they really need the kid in the US don't they?

Bring him back ... he's illegal ... treat him nice ... polite ... get the prosecution ... then send him back. If he refuses to return ... there is always Mexico laws for the lady.

Thats the point, the US government cant force him to come to the US. He has committed no crime, so he cant be extradited. The teacher is not very likely to be prosecuted in Mexico, and her case may not be strong enough in the US without the cooperation of the student. Which is unlikely to happen without an incentive to do so.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Just a few simple questions:

Where is the "underclass of people vulnerable to abuse"?

Doesn't this give special treatment to illegals?

What type of equal value "free pass" would a USC victim receive for reporting a “like†crime?

The illegal people need to report the crime and assist justice to happen for this crime. And ... they need to be prepared for equal justice from the US for the crime they committed by being illegal.

Looking from another angle .... shouldn’t the US also grant LPR status to legal visitors? ... Equal treatment for “guests†... yes?

From a practical perspective - this would involve the illegal being maintained and paid for out of the public purse while the criminal case goes to trial.

The question that immediately springs to my mind is what motivation the illegal would have to go through with this - outside of some real, sustained hatred and anger at the perpetrator. If you're facing the choice between staying in jail for however long before a case goes to trial and subsequently being deported, Vs. being deported right away - it probably isn't a difficult choice to make.

That is is one option ... to jail the illegal .. min. security will do. They are a victim ... report the crime or it may/will happen to another human being ... come-on illegals ... show compassion for your fellow humans ... and stop the perp(s). Just think ... this may not have happened to them if someone else reported the crime.

I don't think the human nature of the illegal alien is much different or removed from that of everyone else.

In this case Dan rightly points out that the victim is currently in Mexico. In order to prosecute the woman under US law they really need the kid in the US don't they?

Bring him back ... he's illegal ... treat him nice ... polite ... get the prosecution ... then send him back. If he refuses to return ... there is always Mexico laws for the lady.

Out of curiosity how would that work? Would they make promises of immigration benefits for co-operation then go back on them?

[natty bumppo 297]

Edit to add: Essentially it comes down to whether or not you think the crime is worth prosecuting at all. The authorities clearly do, and presumably this wouldn't be on the table if it weren't key to the prosecution case.

Doesn't the timer on the edit function always "function" at the most inconvenient time ?

There is a reason the prosecution is pushing for this (it is what it is). Is this a special case ... don't know ... is there more involved ... don't know. There may be a special message the prosecution is trying to send to perps (or potential) ... or the woman may have more skeletons yet to be revealed.

Should this be a normal "reward" for reporting a crime ... no.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Edit to add: Essentially it comes down to whether or not you think the crime is worth prosecuting at all. The authorities clearly do, and presumably this wouldn't be on the table if it weren't key to the prosecution case.

Doesn't the timer on the edit function always "function" at the most inconvenient time ?

There is a reason the prosecution is pushing for this (it is what it is). Is this a special case ... don't know ... is there more involved ... don't know. There may be a special message the prosecution is trying to send to perps (or potential) ... or the woman may have more skeletons yet to be revealed.

Should this be a normal "reward" for reporting a crime ... no.

Well I don't think that this case can really be described as normal - certainly not as far as justifying the fear's expressed here that it will become a common-place practice. Need a few more case-precedents for that IMO.

As far as that goes the closest parallel I can think of is what happens to USC pedophiles who travel to places like Thailand for the purposes of having sex with children.

Edited November 13, 2007 by Number 6

[natty bumppo 297]

Bring him back ... he's illegal ... treat him nice ... polite ... get the prosecution ... then send him back. If he refuses to return ... there is always Mexico laws for the lady.

Out of curiosity how would that work? Would they make promises of immigration benefits for co-operation then go back on them?

Sorry doing too many things at once here besides vj ... and lost my thoughts ... and copy/ paste skills ... had too many windows open

The US should have worked with Mexico ... and maybe they did ... as I mentioned on the other reply ...

"There may be a special message the prosecution is trying to send to perps (or potential) ... or the woman may have more skeletons yet to be revealed."

And given the "tool" used for cooperation in this one case ... how long until this tool is abused ... the U Visa?

[Peikko 1,575]

Nobody 'expects' to be a victim and to suggest that just by coming to the US one can anticipate being a victim of a serious crime is somewhat spurious an assertion.

As far as the legitimacy of the 'plea bargaining' scenario goes, well that's not up to you, or I to determine in any particular instance. We do know the parameters of it's application and it would appear that the criminal justice system feels that this case warrants the visa. While one can speculate on the extra skeletons that are yet to be revealed etc etc, that may or may not contribute to whether this is a warning to other perpetrators (highly speculative) the fact is that statutory rape (sex with a minor who cannot give consent) is considered a very serious crime and probably serious enough on its own merits to warrant the application of the visa. After all, in the normal course of events, most people's reaction to sex crimes against minors is unanimous in it's condemnation of the perpetrator regardless of circumstances.

I really don't understand the argument that the U visa is a reward for being a victim of crime. That's a meaningless concept to my mind and while some may be living in fear of a rash of similar cases, I think you are worrying about nothing on that score.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

I really don't understand the argument that the U visa is a reward for being a victim of crime. That's a meaningless concept to my mind and while some may be living in fear of a rash of similar cases, I think you are worrying about nothing on that score.

time will tell, eh?

[Fandango 1,439]

There's a lot of crimes where the witnesses suffer because of being involved in the prosecution.

Rape victims where the victim's personal life is dragged through the mud springs to mind.

[Alex+R 0]

Wow, just when I started visiting VJ, a thread like this comes along to remind me why I should really spend less time here. I got to Devilette's vitriol about the 13 year old being in a consensual relationship and stopped there. Wow.

[no name 1]

Wow, just when I started visiting VJ, a thread like this comes along to remind me why I should really spend less time here. I got to Devilette's vitriol about the 13 year old being in a consensual relationship and stopped there. Wow.

Wow, thanks for singling me out, Alex. But if you read on, you'd see I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Think back to when you were 13, I'd bet you had realtionships too.

Edited November 13, 2007 by devilette

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Probably not with school-teachers or other adults twice her age

[jundp 191]

Or sexually active, come to think of it.

[no name 1]

Hmmm.

Neither her words (nor mine) say a damn thing about sex (or adults or teachers), simply a consensual relationship. Which may or may not be sexual.

Also, simple math tells us 13 x 2 does not make her twice his age.

Edited November 13, 2007 by devilette

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Hmmm.

Neither her words (nor mine) say a damn thing about sex (or adults or teachers), simply a consensual relationship. Which may or may not be sexual.

Also, simple math tells us 13 x 2 does not make her twice his age.

Well in the context of this thread - we clearly are talking about a sexual relationship.

As for 13x2 not equalling 25 well... you're being condescending once again. But I'm sure you have a rationale to justify a twelve year age gap between a person (a teacher in fact) in their mid-20's and a student barely in their teens. Would we be even having this conversation if the teacher were a man? I'm not so sure.