trust issues

[peezey 0]

Italy and Spain are full of illegals from Morocco. Theycant get a work permit so they work in the streets selling ####### and CD's/ They live six to a room....kinda of reminds me of the illegals here.

He couldnt even use the Consulate there is he wanted to.

you fell for a street vendor??

Sheesh....

Anyway, I agree with Carolyn. No, I never sent any money to my husband before he came here, and he didn't ask. But if he'd needed help with something, I would have. We're partners in all things. I think paying someone's rent is a bit much, but if there is an emergency, of course you're going to help. And when we traveled together in his country before he came here, I paid for it. He made about $200 a month, so after helping his mother with the house expenses, food, etc, he really only had enough to pay for his prepaid cell phone and occasionally go out for a cup of coffee.

When you're together, you're together, and your finances are joined. His family is my family, and if they need something we're going to help. I wouldn't make a blanket statement saying that someone asking for money is a "red flag."

Not everyone believes this, and in fact, is not the way of Islam. The man is supposed to support his family and the woman chooses what to do with her money. This idea of comingled finances is a western one, and an American one, really.

The ayah sbout men supporting their family is conditional, not absolute, peezey. The Prophet allowed poor men to marry as long as there was agreement between the man and hos intended as to how they would manage their issues. In fact, the Prophet didn't support his own family financially alone. Several of his wives worked to support the household, and he died poor. I know that invoking the Prophet's Sunnah is inconvenient for you, but the fact is, you know little about Islam, and even less about how to apply ayat to early Muslim history and the Prophet's example which places commands in context.

The reality is people will tell themselves what ever they have to to make themselves feel o.k. with what they choose to do. You never know about someone else, really, until they break your trust. Just becasuse you give money or they ask does not mean anything. Either a person is honorable or they are not and you will find out in the end. Just do not be too naive.

This is exactly the point. I think a muslim man not only asking but accepting a woman's money has a long way to go to prove his credibility.

So the Prophet Mohammed, pbuh, had a long way to go to prove his credibility??

For some, that seems to be so.

FYI, Ganja_Girl, Muslim women can and do give men money. Khadijah, the Prophet's first wife, was his employer; she married below her social status when she married him, and financed his mission with her own money. Not to mention, their large age gap, 15 years, for those who are also hung up on that. There is precedent for a lot of things we otherwise think are beneath us, and Allah has put no barrier between a woman helping a man financially, should she choose to do so.

No one said muslim women can't choose what to do with their money, but invoking Khadija time and again conveniently skips the fact that a muslim man is to take care of his family and if he doesn't, it is grounds for divorce.

It is not always grounds for divorce. You simply don't know what you're talking about then you speak about Islam, peezey. Frankly, as an atheist, you have no basis upon which to claim authority regarding this subject.

Frankly, as a bitter old woman, you have no basis on which to form your opinion of me. My atheism is such a ridiculous excuse for you to continue to play, don't you ever get tired of this same old tune? And no, I'm not simply wrong about any of this. I just choose to see the broader picture in Islam instead of these very narrow things you "special cases" need to seek out in order to rationalize your nasty choices.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Peezey I tell you, you're a breath of fresh air

Problem?

No just returning the eyeroll from the one you gave me on how to tell you're from Boston thread.

You seem extra sensitive tonight,did someone strike a nerve? Like I really care anyway.

Just havin' fun!

Ya me too because some of this stuff is truly hilarious

Was he horrified that you left him at the altar that first time?

NO but perhaps he was by your husband's Herman Monster face But then again you buy your men, so it is not like you really have any standards.

don't you have some muslim bashing news article to post in OP?

well Doodle

What this is is a bunch of bitchy condescending women who once their husbands got here have nothing better to do with their lives than stalk vj, look for moments to drop in and make those of us in the process IN THE PROCESS DID I SaY IN THE FREAKING PROCESS feel like ######....

If my ### is back here when my husband gets here, please kill me if I do the ####### that these nags do ... They have nothing better to do than hang around here like a bad high school homecoming night and make every one feel like #######

If he got his visa and you dont have nothing good to say to people here... get the hell of the boards...

I am really sick of these hags..

[ayesha4akram 0]

biting my tongue...i mean fingers to keep from typing! It's hard I so want to say something to a couple of witches who only fly by to stir up trouble (news flash! halloween is over!!)....ohhhh too late now, i started typing.

In my opinion, i think every case is different and personal. If you have the means to help someone who really needs it, then be compassionate and HELP! It's your husband for crying out loud! American way, western way or however YOU want to call it, I call it having compassion for someone you love and know is going through a difficult time.

I can just imagine how some marriages will turn out at the first sight of financial trouble with their husbands!

ok, that's it for now .

Edited November 14, 2007 by ayesha4akram

[doodlebug 3]

That's all I'm sayin'. My husband will be the first one to say that it's wrong of him to take money, but when you're in a situation where you are being ousted from your place and you have zippo funds to move and none of your friends have any cash on hand then I think if your wife offers $100 you should take it and forget about the culture thing for now, and it's not grounds for divorce in Islam to take it as I have shown above.

Um, this is like a kid who hits someone and then says "I'm sorry" the second the punch is thrown. If he's taking money he can't think it's all that wrong. Your husband hasn't had a major change in finances since he's met you, right? So he's probably met this situation before. What did he used to do without you?

Apparently you didn't have time to read what I wrote in my post earlier. I won't accuse you of being illiterate since I know you are very smart and normally I admire your intellect. The point of my posting our situation was in fact to show how some men's financial situation does INDEED change so while yes of course they were fine before we met, things happend after the fact. His father died and he suddenly was in charge of his two sisters financially and otherwise. The rent became due and the food needed to be bought in the two weeks of the whole being in the hospital and then dying and burying him and mourning. I guess I should have not offered and puffed up my feathers and said to heck with you but I felt something called compassion for the man. Had I not known him and known of his story I still would have offered since it's the kind thing to do.

After that a few months later they were evicted from the flat they lived in their whole lives because it was in danger of falling down. They had to move and to do so cost some money so again I offered. No biggie. I don't consider that buying my man (nor do I think he looks like a monster and nor do I think he's saying alhumdulilah my ship has come in), but if you all do so be it. I stated before I could care less what anyone thinks since it'll all come out in the end what kind of man I married and what kind of man everyone else married. If the only quality a woman looks for is the dollar sign then I pity them.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

I have not read all the posts but JODO, one of yours for sure was uncalled for. I am going to issue a couple warnings privately on this issue. Please everyone lets stop the attacks as well or this thread will be locked. Thanks.

[SaadBell 0]

And this is not just confined to Muslim men, my husband is a Copt and he would be horrified if I ever tried to give him money. Much less ask for it. Seems like some of these men finally had their ships come in

WOW, you are not kidding where can I sign up for this, I have a ton of children who could use a few bucks, trust me. They could also use some parents, just throwing that out. Sometimes we get so caught up in BS we forget the bigger picture, just remember there are really poor people here that need help desperately. Go one night and look up adoptions and look at all the children waiting for homes, and I can tell you most do not and I have three right now that are aging out of the system, which means they have NO FAMILY, NOTHING, will be thrown out of the system at mid-night and are left to fend for them selfs, cause there are a million more right after him. Just a thought that we need to start to look at our own back yard and help some folks out here, and just don't think, oh everybody has shelter, food and clothes, cause that is a lie.

[doodlebug 3]

Peezey I tell you, you're a breath of fresh air

Problem?

No just returning the eyeroll from the one you gave me on how to tell you're from Boston thread.

You seem extra sensitive tonight,did someone strike a nerve? Like I really care anyway.

Just havin' fun!

Ya me too because some of this stuff is truly hilarious

Was he horrified that you left him at the altar that first time?

NO but perhaps he was by your husband's Herman Monster face But then again you buy your men, so it is not like you really have any standards.

don't you have some muslim bashing news article to post in OP?

well Doodle

What this is is a bunch of bitchy condescending women who once their husbands got here have nothing better to do with their lives than stalk vj, look for moments to drop in and make those of us in the process IN THE PROCESS DID I SaY IN THE FREAKING PROCESS feel like ######....

If my ### is back here when my husband gets here, please kill me if I do the ####### that these nags do ... They have nothing better to do than hang around here like a bad high school homecoming night and make every one feel like #######

If he got his visa and you dont have nothing good to say to people here... get the hell of the boards...

I am really sick of these hags..

No one makes me feel like #######. You have the power to feel however you want to. YOu don't know these people and they don't know you. For all you know their lives just completely suck azz and this is the only way they get joy, by stating that someone who compassionately helped out their husband bought him. lol.

[peezey 0]

It is not always grounds for divorce. You simply don't know what you're talking about then you speak about Islam, peezey. Frankly, as an atheist, you have no basis upon which to claim authority regarding this subject.

grounds for divorce

scroll down, #4

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Italy and Spain are full of illegals from Morocco. Theycant get a work permit so they work in the streets selling ####### and CD's/ They live six to a room....kinda of reminds me of the illegals here.

He couldnt even use the Consulate there is he wanted to.

you fell for a street vendor??

Sheesh....

Anyway, I agree with Carolyn. No, I never sent any money to my husband before he came here, and he didn't ask. But if he'd needed help with something, I would have. We're partners in all things. I think paying someone's rent is a bit much, but if there is an emergency, of course you're going to help. And when we traveled together in his country before he came here, I paid for it. He made about $200 a month, so after helping his mother with the house expenses, food, etc, he really only had enough to pay for his prepaid cell phone and occasionally go out for a cup of coffee.

When you're together, you're together, and your finances are joined. His family is my family, and if they need something we're going to help. I wouldn't make a blanket statement saying that someone asking for money is a "red flag."

Not everyone believes this, and in fact, is not the way of Islam. The man is supposed to support his family and the woman chooses what to do with her money. This idea of comingled finances is a western one, and an American one, really.

The ayah sbout men supporting their family is conditional, not absolute, peezey. The Prophet allowed poor men to marry as long as there was agreement between the man and hos intended as to how they would manage their issues. In fact, the Prophet didn't support his own family financially alone. Several of his wives worked to support the household, and he died poor. I know that invoking the Prophet's Sunnah is inconvenient for you, but the fact is, you know little about Islam, and even less about how to apply ayat to early Muslim history and the Prophet's example which places commands in context.

The reality is people will tell themselves what ever they have to to make themselves feel o.k. with what they choose to do. You never know about someone else, really, until they break your trust. Just becasuse you give money or they ask does not mean anything. Either a person is honorable or they are not and you will find out in the end. Just do not be too naive.

This is exactly the point. I think a muslim man not only asking but accepting a woman's money has a long way to go to prove his credibility.

So the Prophet Mohammed, pbuh, had a long way to go to prove his credibility??

For some, that seems to be so.

FYI, Ganja_Girl, Muslim women can and do give men money. Khadijah, the Prophet's first wife, was his employer; she married below her social status when she married him, and financed his mission with her own money. Not to mention, their large age gap, 15 years, for those who are also hung up on that. There is precedent for a lot of things we otherwise think are beneath us, and Allah has put no barrier between a woman helping a man financially, should she choose to do so.

No one said muslim women can't choose what to do with their money, but invoking Khadija time and again conveniently skips the fact that a muslim man is to take care of his family and if he doesn't, it is grounds for divorce.

It is not always grounds for divorce. You simply don't know what you're talking about then you speak about Islam, peezey. Frankly, as an atheist, you have no basis upon which to claim authority regarding this subject.

Frankly, as a bitter old woman, you have no basis on which to form your opinion of me. My atheism is such a ridiculous excuse for you to continue to play, don't you ever get tired of this same old tune? And no, I'm not simply wrong about any of this. I just choose to see the broader picture in Islam instead of these very narrow things you "special cases" need to seek out in order to rationalize your nasty choices.

Well since you are such an expert on Islam.. you know it was the ultimate sin for your husband to marry an atheist..

The Koran says that a muslim shall only bind himself with a muslima or a person of the book... and that its haram to be with a person who has no belief in God.... I think a hundred bucks here or there is not the SHIRK of marrying someone who has absolutely no belief in God.

Take that to an imam and ask them.. You will get a horrified look on that Imams face.

If you have no belief in God... your husband is commanded by Allah to divorce you immediately

It is required that the women should be practising their

religion at the time of marriage and they are not practically

"Mulhid" (atheist). To any women, who doesn't believe in God,

religion, God's message and doesn't practise any religion at

all, the "nikaah" (marriage) will be INVALID and according to

"shari'ah" (Islamic Law), such a couple is involved in sin.

You are a MULHID .. You are not even allowed to be married to a muslim... I have no idea whether a MULHID can give islamic guidance..

Oh well

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Frankly, as a bitter old woman, you have no basis on which to form your opinion of me. My atheism is such a ridiculous excuse for you to continue to play, don't you ever get tired of this same old tune? And no, I'm not simply wrong about any of this. I just choose to see the broader picture in Islam instead of these very narrow things you "special cases" need to seek out in order to rationalize your nasty choices.

If I have to be old and bitter to tell the truth, peezey, then so be it. You are an atheist, and as inconvenient as it may be for that to be brought up, it is material to the discussion. You are not knowledgable enough about Islam, commands and context to be believed, and I want people to know that so they can assess your words thru an honest filter. You have belittled the Prophet and tried to make his example and his family life irrelevent to the issue, while at the same time sermonizing about religious obligations according to gender, as if you know something about that.

You don't. That's a fact. And it is not neccessary for you to try to present yourself as knowledgable when offering your opinion. Nor is it obligatory for you to spew insults, but you seem to enjoy that all too much.

[doodlebug 3]

It is not always grounds for divorce. You simply don't know what you're talking about then you speak about Islam, peezey. Frankly, as an atheist, you have no basis upon which to claim authority regarding this subject.

grounds for divorce

scroll down, #4

Oh for Pete's sakes almost everyone here has ground for divorce before their husbands get their green card then! That certainly is stretching it a bit imho.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

Doodle please let it go for now. I have issued some warnings and I am sure there are apologies to be had once things cool down. It is best that we try and cool off the issue for a bit.

[peezey 0]

Well since you are such an expert on Islam.. you know it was the ultimate sin for your husband to marry an atheist..

The Koran says that a muslim shall only bind himself with a muslima or a person of the book... and that its haram to be with a person who has no belief in God.... I think a hundred bucks here or there is not the SHIRK of marrying someone who has absolutely no belief in God.

Take that to an imam and ask them.. You will get a horrified look on that Imams face.

If you have no belief in God... your husband is commanded by Allah to divorce you immediately

It is required that the women should be practising their

religion at the time of marriage and they are not practically

"Mulhid" (atheist). To any women, who doesn't believe in God,

religion, God's message and doesn't practise any religion at

all, the "nikaah" (marriage) will be INVALID and according to

"shari'ah" (Islamic Law), such a couple is involved in sin.

You are a MULHID .. You are not even allowed to be married to a muslim... I have no idea whether a MULHID can give islamic guidance..

Oh well

Relevance? Considering my husband doesn't believe in this b.s., and I don't, sin really isn't much on our minds. I'm not giving guidance, I'm giving my opinion. Were anyone on this board to take advice from anyone else re: Islam, they have problems.

It is not always grounds for divorce. You simply don't know what you're talking about then you speak about Islam, peezey. Frankly, as an atheist, you have no basis upon which to claim authority regarding this subject.

grounds for divorce

scroll down, #4

Oh for Pete's sakes almost everyone here has ground for divorce before their husbands get their green card then! That certainly is stretching it a bit imho.

you missed the point, she stated it's not always grounds for divorce, I posted something that says otherwise. I don't think people should divorce for this reason, it's not my business.

[doodlebug 3]

Ganga girl pass that pipe will ya? I think we could all use a little right now! lol

[Sofiyya 1,687]

It is not always grounds for divorce. You simply don't know what you're talking about then you speak about Islam, peezey. Frankly, as an atheist, you have no basis upon which to claim authority regarding this subject.

grounds for divorce

scroll down, #4

That you get your Islam from websites is more proof that you know little.

BTW, there is more than one sharia, as evidenced by mutiple schools of jurisprudence and their differing rulings. One may allow divorce on the grounds of a man's ability of lack of ability to support his wife, and another may not. If you now anything about Islam, you know that. There is much diversity on interpretations of sharia and even what constitutes sharia. Most websites are not substantial enough to teach that.