Filing while seperated?

[Yaads 0]

Hello,

So my husband and I are working on things and they are getting better everyday but we don't live together currently and haven't since May. We probably won't be back living together before it is time to file (Feb) to remove the conditions on his green card. We aren't legally separated just physically.

Do you think this will be a big problem? We can't get the typical evidence together because we don't have the same address. What would you all do for evidence? How would you address it in the RC packet? We can send evidence from before May but won't have anything really since then. Any ideas?

Thanks

[doodle 0]

Hi Jaime,

Let's start this by figuring what you do have for evidence in both of your names.

I personally think that its best not to mention anywhere that you are "seperated" on paper. You need to be as creative as possible for pulling things together. The USCIS is not an understanding department and I would not put this big of a thing in their non-understanding hands.

Give me an idea of what you could dig up for "joint" evidence and we can figure out how this will work. There isn't much time before you need to file.

[Jasman0717 9]

I wouldn't recommend lying to the USCIS

[*JG* 2]

She didn't say "LIE". She said be creative.

[James 2]

Hello,

So my husband and I are working on things and they are getting better everyday but we don't live together currently and haven't since May. We probably won't be back living together before it is time to file (Feb) to remove the conditions on his green card. We aren't legally separated just physically.

Do you think this will be a big problem? We can't get the typical evidence together because we don't have the same address. What would you all do for evidence? How would you address it in the RC packet? We can send evidence from before May but won't have anything really since then. Any ideas?

Thanks

You might want to do a search here -- type in "separated" in the search form at the bottom of the main page for the Removing Conditions forum, for example. There have been a number of opinions about what being separated means for filing and interviews, not to mention confusion.

My understanding is that, for filing, you should generally be either married and living together so you can file a joint petition or divorced so you can file a petition and seek a waiver of the joint filing requirement. Being separated at the time of filing (although particularly "legally" separated, which you're not) is problematic.

Assuming you can't reconcile before filing, your best bet would probably be to consult an attorney.

[Spiderette 0]

My understanding is that removal of conditions is based on the fact that you initially got married in good faith and NOT to evade the laws of the United States.

Your burden of proof is to show them your marriage is legitimate if you are still married, or was legitimate if you are divorced. There is no grey area, you are either married or divorced. If it is your intention to get divorced, you need to get divorced first and then prove to them you were married in good faith. People who do not live together have been known to be approved before, as far as I know there is no requirement that you have to be living together.

Seek the advice of an attorney, but if you still love each other, are working on your marriage etc and have no plans to get divorced, then you have to follow the steps of filing a joint application.

Good luck with your case and your relationship.

[doodle 0]

You'll have to make your situation a little clearer for everyone to understand. Here is my take:

My take on the situation is that you are married, working on things, possibly seeking some counseling and planning on moving back in shortly. I do not see this as a situation that deems "seperated" or that divorce is lurking. I would just gather what you have that is in your names, post the list of what you have and we'll see where you can go from there.

I'm not suggesting you lie I'm just saying that this marriage is not ending so you don't need to bring up living under seperate roofs temporarily to them. It will only confuse, delay and screw up your petition.

My understanding is that removal of conditions is based on the fact that you initially got married in good faith and NOT to evade the laws of the United States.

Your burden of proof is to show them your marriage is legitimate if you are still married, or was legitimate if you are divorced. There is no grey area, you are either married or divorced. If it is your intention to get divorced, you need to get divorced first and then prove to them you were married in good faith. People who do not live together have been known to be approved before, as far as I know there is no requirement that you have to be living together.

Seek the advice of an attorney, but if you still love each other, are working on your marriage etc and have no plans to get divorced, then you have to follow the steps of filing a joint application.

Good luck with your case and your relationship.

I totally agree with this statement. I do not think a lawyer is neccessary, because I think you can proceed with the filing as we all have. Just provide us with a sample list of evidence that you have.

[*JG* 2]

You'll have to make your situation a little clearer for everyone to understand. Here is my take:

My take on the situation is that you are married, working on things, possibly seeking some counseling and planning on moving back in shortly. I do not see this as a situation that deems "seperated" or that divorce is lurking. I would just gather what you have that is in your names, post the list of what you have and we'll see where you can go from there.

I'm not suggesting you lie I'm just saying that this marriage is not ending so you don't need to bring up living under seperate roofs temporarily to them. It will only confuse, delay and screw up your petition.

My understanding is that removal of conditions is based on the fact that you initially got married in good faith and NOT to evade the laws of the United States.

Your burden of proof is to show them your marriage is legitimate if you are still married, or was legitimate if you are divorced. There is no grey area, you are either married or divorced. If it is your intention to get divorced, you need to get divorced first and then prove to them you were married in good faith. People who do not live together have been known to be approved before, as far as I know there is no requirement that you have to be living together.

Seek the advice of an attorney, but if you still love each other, are working on your marriage etc and have no plans to get divorced, then you have to follow the steps of filing a joint application.

Good luck with your case and your relationship.

I totally agree with this statement. I do not think a lawyer is neccessary, because I think you can proceed with the filing as we all have. Just provide us with a sample list of evidence that you have.

That's what I see. To add to this.....it is also my understanding that they problem is that things are not in both your names. It's an either or kind of thing. Add that to the different addresses......Right?

It's not the joint application that is in question. It's the burden of proof.

[doodle 0]

I guess what I thought was that he was staying with a friend or somewhere "temporary". I can't understand why they would have taken his name off of all the utilities and lease and all the things they knew they would need for the I751. I hope that's not the case. We'll have to see if she can post us a sample list of what they have.

[Jasman0717 9]

She didn't say "LIE". She said be creative.

I was under the impression that lifting conditions was showing a ongoing marriage. By not mentioning this to me is a lie

[Yaads 0]

Ok lets see if I can clear this up a bit...

Basically what you all said is correct. We were having a really rough patch and things were getting so heated that the best thing was for us to be living seperately...just so we weren't around each other all the time while also trying to work on some serious issues. We moved out of the house we were renting and each moved into a seperate apt...so all the utilities and everything are in seperate names because we both moved to new residences.

We have no intention of divorcing at all...it was just working best for us to be apart while trying to get all the issues resolved. A lot of the problems were with responsibility so it was important for the husband to have to be responsible for himself and the consequences of his actions. Anyways...USCIS was notified that our addresses changed because we didn't want to get in trouble over that. So they are aware that we are at 2 different locations.

I have lease agreements, joint bank accounts, mail, insurance, all sorts of stuff...but only until May of this year. As for evidence since May...well there really isn't any. We still have a joint bank account although it isn't in use anymore. We have pictures of things we have done over the past few months and trips we have taken.

Part of me thinks the way to go with USCIS is to be completely honest and let them know that we were having problems and living seperate but that our marriage is fully legitimate and that we are working towards reconciliation. I am sure we could get numerous affidavits from family and friends saying that we are a real married couple. We could also get a statement from our counselor explaining the majority of it all.

There is no question about the filing. We are a married legitimate couple who will be filing to remove the conditions based on that marriage. The only problem I am having is what to do to prove a bonafide relationship thus far since we won't have the typical evidence with both our names and the same address.

I could swamp them with tons of stuff from the time we filed AOS to this May and then gather the little bit I can for the rest of the time.

Thanks for the advice so far...let me know if you have any other questions.

[Yaads 0]

That's what I see. To add to this.....it is also my understanding that they problem is that things are not in both your names. It's an either or kind of thing. Add that to the different addresses......Right?

It's not the joint application that is in question. It's the burden of proof.

That's it exactly.

[lucyrich 20]

You may want to speak with attorney experiened in this sort of issue. Yours is not the typical case.

Realize what it is that you have to prove. That the marriage is legitimate, not for the purpose of immigration benefits, and entered in good faith. You don't have to prove that it's perfectly harmonious, that you're madly in love, that you never fight.

But imagine a hypothetical sham couple who were never in love, got married just for the papers, couldn't stand to live with each other, and moved out and started to live separately. This hypothetical couple is precisely who the removal of conditions process is supposed to catch and deport. What is it that you have which they don't? How do you prove you're not them? I don't know the answer, but you'll have to come up with something, perhaps with the help of that experienced attorney.

They'll figure out from the change of address forms that you're not living together, so don't try to hide that from them. If they catch you witholding relevant info and/or outright lying, then it's "game over". They'll deport you just for the misrepresentation, regardless of whether you've got good facts to back up the removal of conditions. So be up front with them.

[Yaads 0]

Thanks! I plan on being totally honest with them and not lying about anything. It is just coming up with a way to present it to them in a way that isn't damaging. An attorney might be the way to go...hmmm...

Thanks everyone for the insights so far.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Hello,

So my husband and I are working on things and they are getting better everyday but we don't live together currently and haven't since May. We probably won't be back living together before it is time to file (Feb) to remove the conditions on his green card. We aren't legally separated just physically.

Do you think this will be a big problem? We can't get the typical evidence together because we don't have the same address. What would you all do for evidence? How would you address it in the RC packet? We can send evidence from before May but won't have anything really since then. Any ideas?

Thanks

You might want to do a search here -- type in "separated" in the search form at the bottom of the main page for the Removing Conditions forum, for example. There have been a number of opinions about what being separated means for filing and interviews, not to mention confusion.

My understanding is that, for filing, you should generally be either married and living together so you can file a joint petition or divorced so you can file a petition and seek a waiver of the joint filing requirement. Being separated at the time of filing (although particularly "legally" separated, which you're not) is problematic.

Assuming you can't reconcile before filing, your best bet would probably be to consult an attorney.

'Wow. Lots of misinformation going on here............

Aside from the court order for child support as evidence, counseling, marriage counseling, is good evidence of the bonafide nature of a marriage. Per lucyrich's question, "What is it about you that is distinct from a sham couple?", the average "sham" artists would not typically invest in repairing that which was never intended to be!

As far as the residing separately is concerned, as long as you represent this straightforwardly to USCIS, that the marriage is on shaky grounds and that it is a disappointment to both of you, but you are working on it, that's all you need to say. First, if you are shy on the type of evidence required, you might prepare yourself to be called for an interview, since those are generated as a result of a shortage of solid documentation and evidence. But, I'd send them all you have to see if it will fly all the same. USCIS already knows you reside alone. Removal of conditions does not require a viable marriage, just that the marriage was bonafide to begin with. Also, in opposition to what our resident lawyer, (but clearly not an immigration lawyer ) James, wrote on the prior page, I don't believe there is a requirement that the couple must be in a viable marriage to jointly file the I-751. James, please cite your source of information, please!

There is a requirement that in order to meet eligibility to naturalise in 3 years as opposed to the normal 5 years, the alien must demonstrate that he or she has been married to a US citizen for 3 years and is still in a viable marriage to that citizen. Is that what you are muddling up in your head, James?

It's nonsense to suggest that for removing conditions an alien is "compelled" to either end the marriage so the alien can be ready to file a waiver or "reconcile" the marriage so the alien can file jointly!!!! Certainly not in this case, anyway. This would be the case if the US citizen were not inclined to participate in a joint filing, but here we do not have that problem. The parties can file jointly as long as they are still married, even if they live elsewhere. Of course, knowing that they reside in separate places steps up the need to be able to show other evidence of the bonafide nature of the marriage. And bear in mind that the jointly filed I-751 must be adjudicated while the marriage is still intact. So, if a marriage becomes terminally ill and ends up in divorce, a jointly filed I-751 would have to be withdrawn and replaced with a waiver.

Edited November 10, 2007 by diadromous mermaid