Co-sponsor not allowed

[TinTin and Samby 11]

Edited November 9, 2007 by TinTin and Samby

[rebeccajo 14]

I've looked all over the consulate's webpage. I don't see anything about that.

And you probably won't. Because it's probably not an across-the-board policy.

[rebeccajo 14]

Aloha everyone,

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide to solve my dilemma. On October 24th, 2007 I went to the interview with my fiancée in Bangkok. I dragged the children (2) on a 5 hour bus ride to Bangkok and Jit’s sister as babysitter. I felt I had everything in order but they found a few problems.

I knew my I-134 was deplorable and stressed over it for a month. Then I came across information about using a co-sponsor. Well my father has enough assets for ten fiancées and I felt I had a strong case. I included a letter from an officer of the bank explaining my father’s accounts and included how much he had in the bank. His I-134 was signed and notarized just like mine. However, the consular told me I cannot use a co-sponsor for a K-1 visa. I argued I could not find anything that excluded a co-sponsor and that it was within the jurisdiction of the consular approving the visa. Well, they did not buy that and when she went and talked to a senior consular he told her there is no basis in the law to let them accept co-sponsorship. I was completely blown away as I was sure everything was in order. I did not record the webpage where I found out about co-sponsorships and that was a mistake on my part as I would now advise using the mother of all paper trails, Keep every paper associated with this process.

This is where I am and now need to find out if this is true or not. If anyone has info about using a co-sponsor on a K-1 visa please let me know how it is done.

Thanks, AlohaBob

At the top of this site, you'll see "Embassy Info". Click on it, and then check out the reviews for the US Embassy in Thailand (Bangkok). The most recent post on there is from a man whose fiancee was denied a visa UNTIL he (the petitioner) could get a co-sponsor. They apparently found a co-sponsor within a week, and then their visa was approved. This all took place in October, according to the post.

I am very confused as to your situation. I have heard of quite a few people getting co-sponsors for Thailand. (The man I directed you to is a case in point.) You do realize that you or the co-sponsor had to show 125 percent above the poverty level to support a family of FOUR (you, your fiance, and her 2 children)? And I'm assuming you showed them all your financial records, regardless of how dismal? There is a section on this site that says there is one case where a visa was denied even though the petitioner had 2 co-sponsors, as the petitioner was not currently working and had been on government aid.

The main concern, it seems, for this requirement is that the US govt wants to make sure that the fiance and/or his/her dependents is not likely to become a public charge once admitted into the US. Though they accept co-sponsors in thailand, it MAY be at the embassy's discretion as to whether they will accept that co-sponsor based on the petitioner's situation. This is speculation on my part, of course.

I was also told that it is better to get a co-sponsor that is currently working. If your father is over the age of 55-60 and retired, no matter how many assets he has, he may not be the best sponsor for you. They look seriously at income as they want to make sure there is a steady amount of income coming in.

Again -- I am still confused why they told you that you cannot have a co-sponsor when they are approving and ASKING for co-sponsors before approving the visas of others. Are you sure you understood correctly, and there was no other information that was given to you? Were all your own financial records in order? You may want to call or email the embassy to double-check on what you were told, to verify that you cannot get a co-sponsor. Have you ever been on any sort of government aid? I keep thinking that somehow they did not feel you were capable of supporting 4 people on your own, that your family was likely to become a public charge, even if they were incorrect in this assumption.

I know of another case where the man (in his 20s) was unemployed, and had his parents co-sponsor his thai fiancee, and she was approved. Clearly there is something that is not making sense in your case, or you were not being told the entire reason for denial?

As I said before, this is all speculation on my end. I would call the embassy, to confirm.

Jennifer -

Income is income. It does not matter if a sponsor's income is from gainful employment or from retirement funds. It is misleading to readers to imply that only income from a paycheck will suffice for an affidavit of support.

I am only quoting what I was told by a CA visa lawyer when I asked about using my parents as co-sponsors. I know it is not politically correct, but he immediately asked me how old "mom and dad" were. This is what he told me: that the reviewing officers look more favorably on working co-sponsors over 55, since the affadavit is usually looked upon as ongoing support for 5 years, and the older a person is, the more possibilities that THEY could expire before the time period is over. I know that is blunt, but this was his advice, not my own opinion -- to go with someone who was younger and working.

Whether this has any validity or not, I do not know. But I didn't want to take chances and decided to go with my sister instead. Both my parents have considerable assents and retirement incomes, which I told the lawyer, but he still advised to go with a currently working, younger co-sponsor if possible.

And the person who originally posted this question made more mention of his father's assets than income, retirement or otherwise -- so I was also only quoting what visajourney says about the how consulates look very carefully at income, and not just assets.

Jennifer -

It's not about political correctness.

I believe your lawyer offered you his/her opinion on this matter, rather than facts based upon anecdotal experience.

I'm also quite certain your lawyer is incorrect about the I134 being looked upon as support for 5 years, since the I134 itself is not binding in any way.

Income is income. Pension income, Social Security income - all such payments are perfectly consistent and viable means of support. These payments are probably more reliable than income from a J-O-B job, which one can lose on any given day of the week. It's also quite easy to demonstrate consistent income from investments. All one need do is produce monthly statements from your broker.

[JenniferJarin 0]

Aloha everyone,

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide to solve my dilemma. On October 24th, 2007 I went to the interview with my fiancée in Bangkok. I dragged the children (2) on a 5 hour bus ride to Bangkok and Jit’s sister as babysitter. I felt I had everything in order but they found a few problems.

I knew my I-134 was deplorable and stressed over it for a month. Then I came across information about using a co-sponsor. Well my father has enough assets for ten fiancées and I felt I had a strong case. I included a letter from an officer of the bank explaining my father’s accounts and included how much he had in the bank. His I-134 was signed and notarized just like mine. However, the consular told me I cannot use a co-sponsor for a K-1 visa. I argued I could not find anything that excluded a co-sponsor and that it was within the jurisdiction of the consular approving the visa. Well, they did not buy that and when she went and talked to a senior consular he told her there is no basis in the law to let them accept co-sponsorship. I was completely blown away as I was sure everything was in order. I did not record the webpage where I found out about co-sponsorships and that was a mistake on my part as I would now advise using the mother of all paper trails, Keep every paper associated with this process.

This is where I am and now need to find out if this is true or not. If anyone has info about using a co-sponsor on a K-1 visa please let me know how it is done.

Thanks, AlohaBob

At the top of this site, you'll see "Embassy Info". Click on it, and then check out the reviews for the US Embassy in Thailand (Bangkok). The most recent post on there is from a man whose fiancee was denied a visa UNTIL he (the petitioner) could get a co-sponsor. They apparently found a co-sponsor within a week, and then their visa was approved. This all took place in October, according to the post.

I am very confused as to your situation. I have heard of quite a few people getting co-sponsors for Thailand. (The man I directed you to is a case in point.) You do realize that you or the co-sponsor had to show 125 percent above the poverty level to support a family of FOUR (you, your fiance, and her 2 children)? And I'm assuming you showed them all your financial records, regardless of how dismal? There is a section on this site that says there is one case where a visa was denied even though the petitioner had 2 co-sponsors, as the petitioner was not currently working and had been on government aid.

The main concern, it seems, for this requirement is that the US govt wants to make sure that the fiance and/or his/her dependents is not likely to become a public charge once admitted into the US. Though they accept co-sponsors in thailand, it MAY be at the embassy's discretion as to whether they will accept that co-sponsor based on the petitioner's situation. This is speculation on my part, of course.

I was also told that it is better to get a co-sponsor that is currently working. If your father is over the age of 55-60 and retired, no matter how many assets he has, he may not be the best sponsor for you. They look seriously at income as they want to make sure there is a steady amount of income coming in.

Again -- I am still confused why they told you that you cannot have a co-sponsor when they are approving and ASKING for co-sponsors before approving the visas of others. Are you sure you understood correctly, and there was no other information that was given to you? Were all your own financial records in order? You may want to call or email the embassy to double-check on what you were told, to verify that you cannot get a co-sponsor. Have you ever been on any sort of government aid? I keep thinking that somehow they did not feel you were capable of supporting 4 people on your own, that your family was likely to become a public charge, even if they were incorrect in this assumption.

I know of another case where the man (in his 20s) was unemployed, and had his parents co-sponsor his thai fiancee, and she was approved. Clearly there is something that is not making sense in your case, or you were not being told the entire reason for denial?

As I said before, this is all speculation on my end. I would call the embassy, to confirm.

Jennifer -

Income is income. It does not matter if a sponsor's income is from gainful employment or from retirement funds. It is misleading to readers to imply that only income from a paycheck will suffice for an affidavit of support.

I am only quoting what I was told by a CA visa lawyer when I asked about using my parents as co-sponsors. I know it is not politically correct, but he immediately asked me how old "mom and dad" were. This is what he told me: that the reviewing officers look more favorably on working co-sponsors over 55, since the affadavit is usually looked upon as ongoing support for 5 years, and the older a person is, the more possibilities that THEY could expire before the time period is over. I know that is blunt, but this was his advice, not my own opinion -- to go with someone who was younger and working.

Whether this has any validity or not, I do not know. But I didn't want to take chances and decided to go with my sister instead. Both my parents have considerable assents and retirement incomes, which I told the lawyer, but he still advised to go with a currently working, younger co-sponsor if possible.

And the person who originally posted this question made more mention of his father's assets than income, retirement or otherwise -- so I was also only quoting what visajourney says about the how consulates look very carefully at income, and not just assets.

oops meant to say "working co-sponsors UNDER 55" -- again, I know it sounds awful, but this is what I was told, regardless of whether it is correct or not. If anyone out there has used a retired co-sponsor and was approved, I would be very interested in hearing about it, as it could make me reconsider my own situation.

[rebeccajo 14]

Aloha everyone,

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide to solve my dilemma. On October 24th, 2007 I went to the interview with my fiancée in Bangkok. I dragged the children (2) on a 5 hour bus ride to Bangkok and Jit’s sister as babysitter. I felt I had everything in order but they found a few problems.

I knew my I-134 was deplorable and stressed over it for a month. Then I came across information about using a co-sponsor. Well my father has enough assets for ten fiancées and I felt I had a strong case. I included a letter from an officer of the bank explaining my father’s accounts and included how much he had in the bank. His I-134 was signed and notarized just like mine. However, the consular told me I cannot use a co-sponsor for a K-1 visa. I argued I could not find anything that excluded a co-sponsor and that it was within the jurisdiction of the consular approving the visa. Well, they did not buy that and when she went and talked to a senior consular he told her there is no basis in the law to let them accept co-sponsorship. I was completely blown away as I was sure everything was in order. I did not record the webpage where I found out about co-sponsorships and that was a mistake on my part as I would now advise using the mother of all paper trails, Keep every paper associated with this process.

This is where I am and now need to find out if this is true or not. If anyone has info about using a co-sponsor on a K-1 visa please let me know how it is done.

Thanks, AlohaBob

At the top of this site, you'll see "Embassy Info". Click on it, and then check out the reviews for the US Embassy in Thailand (Bangkok). The most recent post on there is from a man whose fiancee was denied a visa UNTIL he (the petitioner) could get a co-sponsor. They apparently found a co-sponsor within a week, and then their visa was approved. This all took place in October, according to the post.

I am very confused as to your situation. I have heard of quite a few people getting co-sponsors for Thailand. (The man I directed you to is a case in point.) You do realize that you or the co-sponsor had to show 125 percent above the poverty level to support a family of FOUR (you, your fiance, and her 2 children)? And I'm assuming you showed them all your financial records, regardless of how dismal? There is a section on this site that says there is one case where a visa was denied even though the petitioner had 2 co-sponsors, as the petitioner was not currently working and had been on government aid.

The main concern, it seems, for this requirement is that the US govt wants to make sure that the fiance and/or his/her dependents is not likely to become a public charge once admitted into the US. Though they accept co-sponsors in thailand, it MAY be at the embassy's discretion as to whether they will accept that co-sponsor based on the petitioner's situation. This is speculation on my part, of course.

I was also told that it is better to get a co-sponsor that is currently working. If your father is over the age of 55-60 and retired, no matter how many assets he has, he may not be the best sponsor for you. They look seriously at income as they want to make sure there is a steady amount of income coming in.

Again -- I am still confused why they told you that you cannot have a co-sponsor when they are approving and ASKING for co-sponsors before approving the visas of others. Are you sure you understood correctly, and there was no other information that was given to you? Were all your own financial records in order? You may want to call or email the embassy to double-check on what you were told, to verify that you cannot get a co-sponsor. Have you ever been on any sort of government aid? I keep thinking that somehow they did not feel you were capable of supporting 4 people on your own, that your family was likely to become a public charge, even if they were incorrect in this assumption.

I know of another case where the man (in his 20s) was unemployed, and had his parents co-sponsor his thai fiancee, and she was approved. Clearly there is something that is not making sense in your case, or you were not being told the entire reason for denial?

As I said before, this is all speculation on my end. I would call the embassy, to confirm.

Jennifer -

Income is income. It does not matter if a sponsor's income is from gainful employment or from retirement funds. It is misleading to readers to imply that only income from a paycheck will suffice for an affidavit of support.

I am only quoting what I was told by a CA visa lawyer when I asked about using my parents as co-sponsors. I know it is not politically correct, but he immediately asked me how old "mom and dad" were. This is what he told me: that the reviewing officers look more favorably on working co-sponsors over 55, since the affadavit is usually looked upon as ongoing support for 5 years, and the older a person is, the more possibilities that THEY could expire before the time period is over. I know that is blunt, but this was his advice, not my own opinion -- to go with someone who was younger and working.

Whether this has any validity or not, I do not know. But I didn't want to take chances and decided to go with my sister instead. Both my parents have considerable assents and retirement incomes, which I told the lawyer, but he still advised to go with a currently working, younger co-sponsor if possible.

And the person who originally posted this question made more mention of his father's assets than income, retirement or otherwise -- so I was also only quoting what visajourney says about the how consulates look very carefully at income, and not just assets.

oops meant to say "working co-sponsors UNDER 55" -- again, I know it sounds awful, but this is what I was told, regardless of whether it is correct or not. If anyone out there has used a retired co-sponsor and was approved, I would be very interested in hearing about it, as it could make me reconsider my own situation.

I did for Adjustment of Status.

[Sinergy 3]

My mom co-sponsored and i had no probs at all with K-1

[Jasman0717 9]

Isn't that weird that some embassies accept co-sponsors and others don't. I guess that is consistant with how the DHS operates in general

It does seem weird but we've been hearing about this from Manila for quite some time. Even so, there's a lot of argument on whether it is true.

I'd like to know just what the applicant was given, in written form.

Definitely like to see what reg they quoted

[alohabob 0]

Update to my posting

Aloha everyone,

First let me thank all who responded to my plea. I am glad there is a forum where people are truly helping one another get through the maze of bureaucracy Let me update my story because some of you asked very pertinent questions and I want to answer all in case it helps others.

I received my receipt from the USCIS dated 12/08/06 and I was elated. I figured I had a chance at happiness with a wonderful woman. Everything went great up to the actual interview on 10/24/07. I made two big mistakes for which I have no excuse. When I read what the embassy wanted I assumed the evidence of our relationship was already approved by the USCIS when I sent them our pictures and plane tickets, etc. So I go to the interview with my approval notice in hand. Big mistake. What the embassy wants is proof of an “ongoing relationship”, my quote. As Jit and I have talked on the phone and emailed everyday for the last year and a half I had the records of an ongoing relationship, just not the brains. I have since printed all this info and will be sending this off to Bangkok next week.

The second problem was the income. I made about $16,000 on paper for 2006 and I need at least $29,688 which is 125% over the poverty level for Hawaii. Things are always higher in Hawaii. My father is 89 years old, retired, lives alone, in great health and has just under a million dollars. He fills out the I-134 with supporting documents.

I, on the other hand submit my I-134 with out documents because I honestly thought they would trash it anyway. Also I would like to point out that signing the I-134 also allows them to secure a bond from the sponsor to guarantee support. I figured this was a pretty strong document and that my father’s support would secure the support portion of the visa.

Some asked what the paper was they gave me. It was a copy of a paper they use for denial under section 221(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act. It had 5 blocks they could check for denial.

Block 1: Evidence of you relationship. They checked this block as explained above.

Block 2: Police Certificate from Thai Authorities No Mark

Block 3: Medical Exam Results No Mark

Block 4: I-864 or I-134 Affidavit of Support completed by your petitioner or joint sponsor No Mark

Note: Curious this is on the form but they don’t accept it for K-1

Block 5: Other: This block checked with the description written in. “Income insufficient. Please submit evidence of you income in 2007” was written in.

The consular officer was signed J. Reilly

I have sent a message to the fellow that apparently used a co-sponsor asking for details. Maybe his story will work.

If I find out that they will not accept the co-sponsorship then I will have to wait until January to raise my income and increase my tax liability to qualify on my own.

Any other thoughts would be appreciated.

Sincerely, AlohaBob

[chris4gretchen 1]

Hi, you gave him income from 06. they are asking for income from 07. they want to see what you made all year this year. Send them paystubs. do you have a letter from your employer? basically you didnt send them your income for 07. ITRs are fine but they want to see current. this is now NOV 07. You should have something from the year, even if its under the required limit.

Send them what you made in 07. what you posted doesnt say anything about your co-sponsor being rejected. It says you didnt send them ANY income for the current year which is the most important.

i have ITRs for the last 3 years. every year but last year i made over the amount i need, but not last year in 06. But this year i again made way over what i need. They will get my ITRs for the last years and also check stubs and a letter from my employer for 07.

current income is very important. if you make zilch they will look very hard at your co sponsor and might not approve. Give them what you made in 07.

Chris

Edited November 11, 2007 by chris4gretchen

[MR2nice 0]

I sincerely hope that everything will work out for you. Hang in there and please update us.

[pushbrk 12,569]

Hi, you gave him income from 06. they are asking for income from 07. they want to see what you made all year this year. Send them paystubs. do you have a letter from your employer? basically you didnt send them your income for 07. ITRs are fine but they want to see current. this is now NOV 07. You should have something from the year, even if its under the required limit.

Send them what you made in 07. what you posted doesnt say anything about your co-sponsor being rejected. It says you didnt send them ANY income for the current year which is the most important.

i have ITRs for the last 3 years. every year but last year i made over the amount i need, but not last year in 06. But this year i again made way over what i need. They will get my ITRs for the last years and also check stubs and a letter from my employer for 07.

current income is very important. if you make zilch they will look very hard at your co sponsor and might not approve. Give them what you made in 07.

Chris

The above is precisely what I would advise. I will add that not only was a joint sponsor not rejected, your joint sponsor wasn't mentioned at all. The I-134 is, in fact, not a binding document. Given your father's age, it is perfectly understandable that the Consular officer look to you first as the means of support for your wife to be.

There was no mention of a 2007 tax return. They asked for evidence of 2007 earnings. I'm confident the Consular officer was aware of the current date. Time to start interpreting literally instead of reading extra things into what you read. That's what go you into trouble in the first place.

What is your 2007 year to date income? (per the evidence)

[rebeccajo 14]

From Lorelle -

"There are NO provision for a Joint Sponsor with the I-134, ONLY a Sponsor. It is not like the I-864 where there is provision for a Joint Sponsor to be used, or the Sponsor can use household member income to meet the shortfall on the Sponsors I-864. This is shown quite clearly from Manila Consulate where confusion is rampant about Manila's non acceptance of a Joint Sponsor for the K visa. Is Manila incorrect or different than other Consulates in making this statement; NO. If the petitioner (who is generally the preferred Sponsor) doesn't meet the poverty guidelines (either 100% or 125% depending on the consulate), one can use a family member (close friend in some cases) to be the Sponsor, even though a Consulate Officer may or may not still require the petitioner to submit their own I-134. This does not mean that a Joint Sponsor has been used in the other person."

[JenniferJarin 0]

Update to my posting

Aloha everyone,

First let me thank all who responded to my plea. I am glad there is a forum where people are truly helping one another get through the maze of bureaucracy Let me update my story because some of you asked very pertinent questions and I want to answer all in case it helps others.

I received my receipt from the USCIS dated 12/08/06 and I was elated. I figured I had a chance at happiness with a wonderful woman. Everything went great up to the actual interview on 10/24/07. I made two big mistakes for which I have no excuse. When I read what the embassy wanted I assumed the evidence of our relationship was already approved by the USCIS when I sent them our pictures and plane tickets, etc. So I go to the interview with my approval notice in hand. Big mistake. What the embassy wants is proof of an “ongoing relationship”, my quote. As Jit and I have talked on the phone and emailed everyday for the last year and a half I had the records of an ongoing relationship, just not the brains. I have since printed all this info and will be sending this off to Bangkok next week.

The second problem was the income. I made about $16,000 on paper for 2006 and I need at least $29,688 which is 125% over the poverty level for Hawaii. Things are always higher in Hawaii. My father is 89 years old, retired, lives alone, in great health and has just under a million dollars. He fills out the I-134 with supporting documents.

I, on the other hand submit my I-134 with out documents because I honestly thought they would trash it anyway. Also I would like to point out that signing the I-134 also allows them to secure a bond from the sponsor to guarantee support. I figured this was a pretty strong document and that my father’s support would secure the support portion of the visa.

Some asked what the paper was they gave me. It was a copy of a paper they use for denial under section 221(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act. It had 5 blocks they could check for denial.

Block 1: Evidence of you relationship. They checked this block as explained above.

Block 2: Police Certificate from Thai Authorities No Mark

Block 3: Medical Exam Results No Mark

Block 4: I-864 or I-134 Affidavit of Support completed by your petitioner or joint sponsor No Mark

Note: Curious this is on the form but they don’t accept it for K-1

Block 5: Other: This block checked with the description written in. “Income insufficient. Please submit evidence of you income in 2007” was written in.

The consular officer was signed J. Reilly

I have sent a message to the fellow that apparently used a co-sponsor asking for details. Maybe his story will work.

If I find out that they will not accept the co-sponsorship then I will have to wait until January to raise my income and increase my tax liability to qualify on my own.

Any other thoughts would be appreciated.

Sincerely, AlohaBob

[JenniferJarin 0]

Dear Aloha Bob,

I emailed the US Embassy in Bangkok regarding co-sponsors for K-1s. No more speculation: Here is the consulate's reply:

Thank you for your inquiry; I understand why it may not be clear about

the I-134. The truth is it depends on the individual circumstances of

the Petitioner/Applicant in question. Technically, an I-134 is not a

legally binding document and therefore a joint sponsor can submit an

I-134, but it is not really helpful unless this joint sponsor is a very

close relative or long time friend of the Petitioner. Officers look at

the totality of the circumstances in each case to determine if an

applicant is likely to become a public charge in the US. If the

Petitioner's income is low, a credible letter offering employment to

the

applicant can also be considered.

I hope this information is helpful,

Consular Correspondence Unit

[alohabob 0]

Thank you JenniferJarin so much for your information. Just so I get this straight and am not reading something you did not say I will restate.

“Technically, an I-134 is not a legally binding document and therefore a joint sponsor can

submit an I-134.”

I submitted a proper I-134 for my father as a joint sponsor. I do not know if the terms co-sponsor and joint sponsor are synonymous. There is no box to check on the I-134 to indicate anything about sponsorship. I believe this leaves wide discretionary powers to the consular and told them so. Maybe it is vague for this very reason.

“Technically, an I-134 is not a legally binding document and therefore a joint sponsor can submit an I-134, but it is not really helpful unless this joint sponsor is a very

close relative or long time friend of the Petitioner. “

I am the Petitioner and my father is both a close relative and long time friend.

“If the Petitioner's income is low, a credible letter offering employment to

the applicant can also be considered.”

This I am enclosing along with my 2007 income documentation that chris4gretchen and pushbrk recommended doing.

So thank you JenniferJarin for you information. I thought I had everything covered, but two different consulars told me in speaking to me at the embassy, not in written form, that the K-1 visa does not use co-sponsorships. I will try again, by email, after they receive my additional evidence.

Thanks everyone for the support.

AlohaBob