Closed Borders

[KGSodie 0]

My fiancee spoke with me today in a panic over the possibility of escalating tensions between the USA and Russia eventually leading to a closing of the borders between our countries. She was very worried that should this happen, she would not be able to see her family once she arrives in this country (we still wait for NOA2).

I tried to reassure her that when it comes to the actions of our respective governments there is very little the two of us can do, so why should we worry over if's and maybe's. I completely understand her worries and anxiety over the possibility of not seeing her family again should the worst happen, and would really like to chalk this up to rampant hysteria on her part, but none of that makes me feel any better.

I'm just looking for comments, I guess, on not only this possibility but perhaps on similar topics the membership of Visa Journey may have experienced.

Thanks everyone!

Kevin

[mox 298]

The possibility of the US and Russia closing borders is almost nonexistent. First and foremost is the simple matter of money. There's a lot of western money pouring into the FSU right now, and quite frankly it's money that drives international policy.

Also, the current tensions between the US and Russia are just that. It's a lot of chest pounding and hand waving. The Shrub is going to be out of the Whitehouse in a year, and his ability to make any serious trouble wanes with each passing day. Putin, on the other hand, is only growing in power, but he's gotten to where he is because he's smart and ruthless. He has no interest in cutting off the US because it's simply bad for his power base. And whoever the next US President is, they're going to be way too busy (hopefully) fixing the messes left by this administration to push the stupidity of missile defense in Eastern Europe.

Your fiancee has nothing to fear. If she were Iranian, she'd have a real reason to worry. But if there were a list of countries to worry about borders closing to the US, Russia would be pretty far down there.

So tell her that moxcamel says it's still okay to marry you.

[KGSodie 0]

The possibility of the US and Russia closing borders is almost nonexistent. First and foremost is the simple matter of money. There's a lot of western money pouring into the FSU right now, and quite frankly it's money that drives international policy.

Also, the current tensions between the US and Russia are just that. It's a lot of chest pounding and hand waving. The Shrub is going to be out of the Whitehouse in a year, and his ability to make any serious trouble wanes with each passing day. Putin, on the other hand, is only growing in power, but he's gotten to where he is because he's smart and ruthless. He has no interest in cutting off the US because it's simply bad for his power base. And whoever the next US President is, they're going to be way too busy (hopefully) fixing the messes left by this administration to push the stupidity of missile defense in Eastern Europe.

Your fiancee has nothing to fear. If she were Iranian, she'd have a real reason to worry. But if there were a list of countries to worry about borders closing to the US, Russia would be pretty far down there.

So tell her that moxcamel says it's still okay to marry you.

I plan on sending this thread, and your comments in particular, to her immediately! I'm curious how long it will take her to understand the meaning of 'The Shrub'....

Thanks for your comment moxcamel, and for so succinctly stating that which I fumbled over.

[dkrivosheyev 0]

The possibility of the US and Russia closing borders is almost nonexistent. First and foremost is the simple matter of money. There's a lot of western money pouring into the FSU right now, and quite frankly it's money that drives international policy.

Also, the current tensions between the US and Russia are just that. It's a lot of chest pounding and hand waving. The Shrub is going to be out of the Whitehouse in a year, and his ability to make any serious trouble wanes with each passing day. Putin, on the other hand, is only growing in power, but he's gotten to where he is because he's smart and ruthless. He has no interest in cutting off the US because it's simply bad for his power base. And whoever the next US President is, they're going to be way too busy (hopefully) fixing the messes left by this administration to push the stupidity of missile defense in Eastern Europe.

Your fiancee has nothing to fear. If she were Iranian, she'd have a real reason to worry. But if there were a list of countries to worry about borders closing to the US, Russia would be pretty far down there.

So tell her that moxcamel says it's still okay to marry you.

I fully agree with the above statement - the possibility of closing borders is negligent. There is too much business and money involved and the people who control all this money also control the power. It is not all about politics, but more about the money, and the business that is going on now between Russia and US is virtually impossible to stop...

[russ 1]

The liklihood of that happening is nil. I mean, even during the cold war there were flights from New York to Moscow starting in the early 60s! During most of the cold war, Americans were free to travel to Russia, though being the enemy, not many people did it.

[Danno 1,228]

I am trying to think of countries which have closed their doors to Americans..... I can't think of one. Even in an almost worst case future event, family members would have legit reasons to travel in and out of Russia.

If I were to be inclined to worry about anything.... it would the political future of Russia.

(many forecast a much more Authoritative Regime is on the horizon).

I rather think Russia in general and Putin in Specific sees the weaknesses of Democracy and wants to build a Hybrid style system.

[russ 1]

I am trying to think of countries which have closed their doors to Americans..... I can't think of one. Even in an almost worst case future event, family members would have legit reasons to travel in and out of Russia.

Cuba, Iran and North Korea, but those are restrictions from the US, not the other way around.

[Chris Parker 11]

I am trying to think of countries which have closed their doors to Americans..... I can't think of one. Even in an almost worst case future event, family members would have legit reasons to travel in and out of Russia.

USA closed the door on Cuba, but I don't think Cuba closed the door on USA...

[1HappyGuy 45]

I understand the anxiety of your fiancee. My wife told me just last night that their is a possibility that Russia will restrict travel to and from Ukraine. She is pretty worried since her brother's family is in Russia and so is her father. The sad part of all of this is that Putin is consolidating his power and preparing for the change in presidency. His plan to become prime minister just states that the next president of Russia will be a puppet of Putin.

My brother in law is hoping to move back to Ukraine but is waiting for his pension consideration to be finalized. Then he can sell his business, home and move his wife, daughter and mother in law to Ukraine. He's hoping to live in Crimea.

Perhaps your fiancee has heard this rumor and has it confused with restricting visas to America.

[slim 1,530]

Yesterday, Red Dawn came on TV. I've been telling my wife about this movie since before she got here and trying to explain to her the seriousness of what it meant when I was five-years-old.

And then I realized how cheesy it really was and how bad special effects were back in the '80s. She was like "why we watch this stupid movie?" But, the message was there. Anyway, there was no message because it couldn't hold her attention for more than a few minutes. I guess it's a "guy movie" and furthermore, it's a 20+-year-old "guy movie." (On that note, AMC's showing all the classic war movies this weekend for Veteran's Day..... and then the Cool Hand Luke 40th Anniversary special is on later this week.)

The Cold War never really affected average every-day people the way it was made out to in the movies and on the news every night. Sure, there are political ramifications of tensions over things, even now, but for the average people, it's no big deal.

And even if they were to close the borders, she's still Russian and could go back whenever she wanted. Barring a situation like North/South Korea, which would have to be preceded by a huge war and therefore likely not to happen, there would always be travel authorized for nationals visiting family members.

[KGSodie 0]

Yesterday, Red Dawn came on TV. I've been telling my wife about this movie since before she got here and trying to explain to her the seriousness of what it meant when I was five-years-old.

And then I realized how cheesy it really was and how bad special effects were back in the '80s. She was like "why we watch this stupid movie?" But, the message was there. Anyway, there was no message because it couldn't hold her attention for more than a few minutes. I guess it's a "guy movie" and furthermore, it's a 20+-year-old "guy movie." (On that note, AMC's showing all the classic war movies this weekend for Veteran's Day..... and then the Cool Hand Luke 40th Anniversary special is on later this week.)

The Cold War never really affected average every-day people the way it was made out to in the movies and on the news every night. Sure, there are political ramifications of tensions over things, even now, but for the average people, it's no big deal.

And even if they were to close the borders, she's still Russian and could go back whenever she wanted. Barring a situation like North/South Korea, which would have to be preceded by a huge war and therefore likely not to happen, there would always be travel authorized for nationals visiting family members.

Thanks Slim. I just watched 'Cool Hand Luke' for the very first time, with my 16 year old son, last night. I remember "Red Dawn" very well though I have not watched it in years and years. I graduated high school in 1979, simply convinced that nuclear war between the USA and Russia was inevitable.

I understand that as a Russian citizen she could always return to Russia, but what about the flip side? If relations between our countries were very very bad and she traveled to Russia, would she be allowed to return, as the wife of a US citizen? I don't think it's anything that would ever happen, but the more ammunition I have in the form of knowledge, the better Natasha and I can rest at night.

[slim 1,530]

Thanks Slim. I just watched 'Cool Hand Luke' for the very first time, with my 16 year old son, last night. I remember "Red Dawn" very well though I have not watched it in years and years. I graduated high school in 1979, simply convinced that nuclear war between the USA and Russia was inevitable.

Cool Hand Luke, great movie, huh? A "guy movie" if there ever was one.

A "Red Dawn-esque" scenario was definitely on the minds of more than a few people during that time period. It seems to me there were two separate camps on this one; the first thought it was inevitable, the second gave it no thought at all. (Guess we were wrong!)

I understand that as a Russian citizen she could always return to Russia, but what about the flip side? If relations between our countries were very very bad and she traveled to Russia, would she be allowed to return, as the wife of a US citizen? I don't think it's anything that would ever happen, but the more ammunition I have in the form of knowledge, the better Natasha and I can rest at night.

Things would have to be very very bad, and completely different. We're talking similar to how they were in the '40s and '50s when people could "disappear" for talking about certain things or going to "meetings" or things of that nature. Tensions probably will never be that high again although there are some politically motivated "incidents" in Russia, it's not likely that she or her family will ever be in danger simply for being married to an American. However, they better watch out what they say about Putin!

If there ever is a time when tensions start to get bad and family members are in danger, that's when the U.S. offers asylum to family members and others connected to your spouse. (Satellite touched on this above.) But, it's all about money now, so there's really no worries. Someday though, it could change. But if you look at the political climate around the world, both the U.S. and Russia are far more worried about other countries than each other. We will probably always be "arch rivals" on the world stage, but the two biggest guys working together will always be more powerful than all the little guys combined. They know that, we know that, and it's not likely to change.

[mox 298]

I understand that as a Russian citizen she could always return to Russia, but what about the flip side? If relations between our countries were very very bad and she traveled to Russia, would she be allowed to return, as the wife of a US citizen? I don't think it's anything that would ever happen, but the more ammunition I have in the form of knowledge, the better Natasha and I can rest at night.

In the hypothetical situation that relations broke down so badly that we returned to cold-war style relations with the FSU, I think it would be impossible to know how travel restrictions would play out. It's possible that relations would be so bad as to dis-allow travel in either direction, both directions, or no directions. Unfortunately governments are stupid and reactionary, and it really depends on who is in power and what kind of information is being fed to them.

Fortunately it just aint gonna happen in the foreseeable future.

EDIT: Cool Hand Luke = Ultimate guy movie. One of my favs.

Edited November 12, 2007 by moxcamel

[KGSodie 0]

My son and I both enjoyed it very much. There's more I'd like to say, but I'd hate to give spoilers to those who haven't seen it yet, so I'll remain quiet.

Thanks for the continuing comments, they are very soothing (and completely logical!).

[russ 1]

In the hypothetical situation that relations broke down so badly that we returned to cold-war style relations with the FSU, I think it would be impossible to know how travel restrictions would play out. It's possible that relations

Not going to happen. Thoses with the money and power in Russia have an interest in being able to travel, so restrictions will not happen. Most people already can not travel, as they are poor and can't leave Russia anyway. This is basically how it worked in Soviet times - those with power had no trouble travelling. The poor couldn't, as they were charged several years (as much as 30) salary for an exit visa. The US passed Jackson Vanik in 1974 to address this, which is still law in the US. The Kremlin hates this, as it also keeps them out of the WTO.