Interesting Read for the Moderators

[Bassi and Zainab 1]

I just move on rather than feel abused or belittled, must less disrespected.

See that's a curious comment right there. Did you feel abused, belittled, or disrespected when you thought I was talking to you the first time here?

Cos I think that was a perfect example of how text is easily misunderstood at times....you felt 'hit by a train for voicing your opinion' when I wasn't even talking to you.

So where's the line of responsibility? Towards the supposed 'bullies' or toward the people who just MIGHT be misinterpreting what is said?

As was stated in another post, at what point do you also look at yourself? (which is ultimately the only thing you have control of) If it appears to be overly aggressive to more than one person, or more than one person "misinterprets" your posts....maybe you should put more thought into the wording of your posts so that they more appropriately convey your intent.

So.....I posted a message on another forum and was immediately attacked for the message because the person saw my post come after their post and thought it was referring to them. But the reaction was aggressive and insulting. I was very confused and had to go back and re-read for a couple of pages to figure out what happened to cause me to upset someone. I responded that I wasn't talking to that person, and then was told that I "need to learn how to post correctly and use the quote buttons more often". Now, granted, she was the only person on the forum who reacted that way and "misinterpreted" my post. But I now use the quote button incessantly. I also told her that I don't expect the be addressed like I'm her child unless she's willing to send me checks to pay my support. And that was the end of that. But, how much of that unnecessary drama is the average person willing to deal with. I'm knee deep in this process. More like drowning in it really and my stress levels related to waiting for my fiance to come over here is my focus. I'm not interested in having regular battles on my "support" forum. That's why I move on.

[PlatyPius 5]

I have never actually seen a real "Troll" at VJ. I've seen strongly opinionated people, I've seen pissed off people, I've seen total bitches/jerks, but I haven't really seen a troll.

Ya wanna see a troll? I mean a good, old-fashioned trolling? Check out these screenshots from a place I used to know once upon a time...

(WARNING: "Naughty" Language)

Screenshot 1

Screenshot 2

Screenshot 3

Screenshot 4

THAT is trolling. Everything on VJ has been mild in comparison. This, by the way, is a small example of HIMEOBS, which Mags mentioned earlier.

[Mags 112]

This, by the way, is a small example of HIMEOBS, which Mags mentioned earlier.

Yup, if HIMEOBS get you in their clutches there is nothing you can do; they will not stop until they have either taken over the site or destroyed it. They are proxy IP specialists and you can not ban them, however hard you try. Now THAT is trolling. What we get here is child's play, really.

Edited November 7, 2007 by Mags

[one...two...tree 2,762]

This, by the way, is a small example of HIMEOBS, which Mags mentioned earlier.

Yup, if HIMEOBS get you in their clutches there is nothing you can do; they will not stop until they have either taken over the site or destroyed it. They are proxy IP specialists and you can not ban them, however hard you try. Now THAT is trolling. What we get here is child's play, really.

I agree with this point from the author of the article in the OP ....

Beware of these people (bullies) and watch out for them because they can be a lot more trouble in the long run than isolated trolls running loose.

Sometimes you just need an excellent troll to combat an established forum bully.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

A woman posted a question asking for help. When she returned, her post was under a cruel attack by other forum users trying to destroy her reputation, her business and her ambition. Unusual? Not at all.

The truth is, personal attacks happen on the Internet forums every day. Thousands of forum users suffer from verbal abuse each time they are trying to ask for advice. Many times you don't care about such episodes. Until it happens to you. And now your name or business is under a threat.

Why do people attack on forums? Many times it is because they have a strong opinion about a subject, and want it to be heard. But it only takes one such post to have others jump in and turn an innocent question into an ugly war that is very difficult to stop.

There is a great diversity of views online - many times I am surprised how different people really are in tastes, opinions and reaction! The one reason for debates turning into flame wars is that many people enter a discussion ONLY when they disagree and want to express their opinion. Many people will find a forum boring if everyone agrees. Controversial forums are much more fun and attractive to inquisitive minds of the online users.

Can anyone be attacked on the forum? Absolutely!

When I did a search on the Internet looking for articles on the subject of "flame wars", I found hundreds of forum messages instead. People are trying to fight flame wars. They complain and ask others to stop. Yet, no solution has been found.

Flaming does not only occur on forums. Discussion groups have their own problem - "trolls", a common term for a newsgroup bully. Most newsgroups moderators recommend ignoring trolls who once in a while spoil the discussion with their irellevant and abusive messages.

Sadly, people want "blood". Someone even created a discussion group called alt.flame. It is a forum for every bully that you ever met in your school and if you decide to join, you are certainly not going to be called a "friend". Prepare to be crushed and humiliated. This group has been specifically created for flame wars and does not claim to be intellectual or informative.

Many forum users agree that a lot of good information and solid advice is missed due to the misrepresentation. You start paying attention to the WAY it is written instead of WHAT it actually says.

The Pew Research Center in their December 1998 survey showed that 45% of online users communicate with other people through online forums, discussion lists and chat groups. 5% of them post every day, and 17% post several times a week.

Online communication has turned our world around by allowing people of all cultures, abilities and means to feel equal and freely express their views. Yet it let out those who thrive on anonymity, abuse and pain.

Are There Solutions?

While there no fool-proof solutions have been found, there are ways to stop or avoid a flame war.

1.In my interview with Dave Brzegowski who is handling abuse reports for Epix Internet Services, I found out that you may report such an attack to the ISP (Internet Service Provider) of the attacker which you can identify by their e-mail address. Such incidents are thoroughly investigated before any action takes place.

2. One way to minimize the number of such attacks is to ask users to register. Every user will need his own ID and password to be able to post. Forum owners, however, are worried that traffic to their web site will drop because people don't like to go through the registration process.

3. If forum owners are too busy to keep an eye on their forums, a good moderator is a solution. Of course, not too many people are willing to volunteer their time moderating forums, but it is a good chance for them to get their names out, and develop a relationship with their potential customers.

4. Do you know if you are a "forum bully?" There is a good chance that you don't realize that your posts might make others feel angry and upset. The fact is, you don't really feel that a message sounds harsh until it is directed toward you. So before you press "Send", read what you wrote. Use a lot of smiley faces (:-). Be careful how you phrase things and capitalize your words. Try to sound helpful rather than criticizing. State facts rather than emotions.

5. Moderators agree that they are too busy to catch every such attack. It is also hard to draw the line between an attack and a strongly opinionated message. Who should decide? Moderators. The fairness of moderators, though, is totally subjective. Some forum users expressed an opinion that moderators should be voted in and dismissed publicly. If the majority agrees that this moderator is not doing a good job of moderating and being objective while removing attacks on others, he or she should be replaced by someone who is known to be fair. Of course, all of the above is completely up to the forum owner.

6. Some users expressed their willingness to pay an annual fee to be a member of a well-moderated board. When people are paying a fee, forum owners and moderators will feel more obligated to control its atmosphere. A forum should provide a true value to justify the fee, though. If I had to choose, I would probably pick two such forums out of 20 that I visit weekly.

7. Another way to control a forum is to have strict banning rules. After all, if you post an advertisement of your company, the post will be immediately removed and you could lose the privileges to post there ever again. Yet when you are attacked, the attacker is not banned. May be if everyone knew the penalty for attacking or starting a flame war is harsh, there would be less abuse.

http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2001/08/...he-verbal-abuse

[Mags 112]

I think we've got your point, Steven. Most people here know exactly what bullies and trolls are like, they don't need it broken down into tiny pieces for them to understand it, give them some credit.

LaL and I are completely capable of dealing with this kind of stuff too.

Edited November 8, 2007 by Mags

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I think we've got your point, Steven. Most people here know exactly what bullies and trolls are like, they don't need it broken down into tiny pieces for them to understand it, give them some credit.

LaL and I are completely capable of dealing with this kind of stuff too.

No you aren't. You need my superpowers.

[Mags 112]

I think we've got your point, Steven. Most people here know exactly what bullies and trolls are like, they don't need it broken down into tiny pieces for them to understand it, give them some credit.

LaL and I are completely capable of dealing with this kind of stuff too.

No you aren't. You need my superpowers.

What have you got then super power wise? Might be interested. I've always wanted to fly or freeze time. Got any of that to spare?

[Mags 112]

I think we've got your point, Steven. Most people here know exactly what bullies and trolls are like, they don't need it broken down into tiny pieces for them to understand it, give them some credit.

LaL and I are completely capable of dealing with this kind of stuff too.

No you aren't. You need my superpowers.

What have you got then super power wise? Might be interested. I've always wanted to fly or freeze time. Got any of that to spare?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I think we've got your point, Steven. Most people here know exactly what bullies and trolls are like, they don't need it broken down into tiny pieces for them to understand it, give them some credit.

LaL and I are completely capable of dealing with this kind of stuff too.

No you aren't. You need my superpowers.

What have you got then super power wise? Might be interested. I've always wanted to fly or freeze time. Got any of that to spare?

I can make bullies cry.

[Mags 112]

I think we've got your point, Steven. Most people here know exactly what bullies and trolls are like, they don't need it broken down into tiny pieces for them to understand it, give them some credit.

LaL and I are completely capable of dealing with this kind of stuff too.

No you aren't. You need my superpowers.

What have you got then super power wise? Might be interested. I've always wanted to fly or freeze time. Got any of that to spare?

I can make bullies cry.

That'll work.

Edited November 8, 2007 by Mags

[TinTin and Samby 11]

OH MY GOD!!! I am on the internet a lot and all around on various forums related to whatever might be going on in my life. I've had lots of experience with trolls and really have learned to just ignore them. The bullies!!!! I haven't experienced that until I came to VJ and there are several boards that I simply avoid like the plague because of the atmosphere they create there. I've stated how I feel about it and now I've moved on. I'm watching how I feel in other boards here and we'll see if I stick around after my journey is over or not. It COULD be a cool place to hang out and lend support because it's an incredibly emotional and life changing journey.....but I deal with enough ####### irl, no way I'm coming on VJ for added grief. I'm happy about this post, because now I don't feel like everyone is in the clique and doesn't see what I see.

It's always good to hear from members who normally don't post because they've been bullied into silence.

I don't think that the above poster was 'bullied into silence', Steven...if she makes a choice to post or leave, that's her choice. It's not that she's 'afraid of the bullies' so much that she doesn't post.

There's a difference to a personality conflict where two adults simply don't click in temperment, and bullying.

I think it's all in perspective, really. We can each look at a person and walk away with different opinions. Bully is a bit OTT, no? No one here's gonna get a faceful of dirt shoved in his/her face during recess. People will agree, people will disagree. And some people are 'bullies' and some are 'wussies', and everything in between....at the end of the day...if you don't get on with someone, one should either manually or automatically ignore that person. Problem solved.

This thread, to me, reads like passive aggressive finger pointing at it's worst. We're all adults here. We all make our own choices. To have to place blame for one's choices on a stranger seems silly to me.

If you don't like someone, ignore him/her. If that person is iyo out of line...report that person and let admin deal with it. We're not all going to agree....we're not all going to like each other. And we're all at a stage of a v frustrating process...so naturally the stress level is going to be high sometimes. The answer is not having to wrap everything in cotton wool and walk on eggshells in fear of offending someone.

Pyscho babble BS! VJ has TONS of 'bullies".. I see them posting every day. They are not some figment of a person's imagination. We aren't taking about personalities that sync (or not) with any given member. Rather, bullies are defined by their consistant behavior as a poster -not individual interpretation of those posts by readers.

As far as 'being all adults here', that would require the exercise of normal, socially accepted behavior. Most do, some don't. Neither trolls nor Bullies would meet that definition in any venue - VJ included.

Regarding "If that person is iyo out of line...report that person and let admin deal with it" - well, there's the rub and the reason we have so much discord here: an unwillingness of the admin staff to moderate and call out the trolls and bullies. The result??? New members who are the natural future and life blood of VJ either quickly become silent readers and don't post or worse, simply choose to leave.

-Samby

[TinTin and Samby 11]

[quote name='L

[PlatyPius 5]

Pyscho babble BS! VJ has TONS of 'bullies".. I see them posting every day. They are not some figment of a person's imagination. We aren't taking about personalities that sync (or not) with any given member. Rather, bullies are defined by their consistant behavior as a poster -not individual interpretation of those posts by readers.

As far as 'being all adults here', that would require the exercise of normal, socially accepted behavior. Most do, some don't. Neither trolls nor Bullies would meet that definition in any venue - VJ included.

Regarding "If that person is iyo out of line...report that person and let admin deal with it" - well, there's the rub and the reason we have so much discord here: an unwillingness of the admin staff to moderate and call out the trolls and bullies. The result??? New members who are the natural future and life blood of VJ either quickly become silent readers and don't post or worse, simply choose to leave.

-Samby

You're smoking crack, right?

Are you REALLY so sure about that?

Let me tell you something.... you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

One of the moderators - Mags - temp. banned her own husband - me - for getting in someone's face. Does that sound like an unwillingness to call out trolls and bullies? The mods can't deal with it if you don't tell them. We have TWO moderators for this entire freaking board. How in the hell do you expect them to keep up with everything? I don't know about Lal, but Mags has a life outside of VJ, and doesn't sit here at the computer all day just waiting for some fun troll action to pop up.

Also, the mods are rather limited on what they can do. I know of a couple of people who shouldn't just have warnings and temp bans; they should be permanently IP banned due to their inability to interact with people in a non-combative, non-snarky way. The Mods can't do that, though. Too bad.

So, I suggest you just keep your ill-informed opinions to yourself when it comes to talking ####### about my wife and Lal. If you think you could do a better job, start by trying to read half of every day's new posts. Let me know how that works out for ya.

Edited November 8, 2007 by PlatyPius

[Fandango 1,440]

I just move on rather than feel abused or belittled, must less disrespected.

See that's a curious comment right there. Did you feel abused, belittled, or disrespected when you thought I was talking to you the first time here?

Cos I think that was a perfect example of how text is easily misunderstood at times....you felt 'hit by a train for voicing your opinion' when I wasn't even talking to you.

So where's the line of responsibility? Towards the supposed 'bullies' or toward the people who just MIGHT be misinterpreting what is said?

As was stated in another post, at what point do you also look at yourself? (which is ultimately the only thing you have control of) If it appears to be overly aggressive to more than one person, or more than one person "misinterprets" your posts....maybe you should put more thought into the wording of your posts so that they more appropriately convey your intent.

So.....I posted a message on another forum and was immediately attacked for the message because the person saw my post come after their post and thought it was referring to them. But the reaction was aggressive and insulting. I was very confused and had to go back and re-read for a couple of pages to figure out what happened to cause me to upset someone. I responded that I wasn't talking to that person, and then was told that I "need to learn how to post correctly and use the quote buttons more often". Now, granted, she was the only person on the forum who reacted that way and "misinterpreted" my post. But I now use the quote button incessantly. I also told her that I don't expect the be addressed like I'm her child unless she's willing to send me checks to pay my support. And that was the end of that. But, how much of that unnecessary drama is the average person willing to deal with. I'm knee deep in this process. More like drowning in it really and my stress levels related to waiting for my fiance to come over here is my focus. I'm not interested in having regular battles on my "support" forum. That's why I move on.

I not only used the quote button, but said the name of the person to whom I was referring to.

I'm sorry you seem to be so stressed!