Interesting Read for the Moderators

[chri'stina 190]

Rebecca, I agree a good political debate is something else. But it seems almost all the political debates here end the same way, not really good, LOL. A lot of insults fly in them.

Edited November 7, 2007 by stina&suj

[LoriLawless 0]

Excellent post Steven. Bullying DOES hurt people, whether in real life or online. And we are ALL people.

Hopefully the moderators will pay more attention to it, who is doing it on a regular basis and nip in the bud before we lose more members or they stop posting.

I'm just going to clarify something here because I don't think everyone has grasped exactly what the moderators jobs are around here.

We do NOT police the board (this fact is in the TOS for those who wish to have a look). We act on PMs sent to us and on anything we may come across on our general travels around the place. If you, a member, sees something that you do not like, whether this be attitude, a TOS violation or anything else that you feel needs attention then the onus is on YOU, the member, to let US know about it.

NEVER assume that we have seen it, never assume that we are not acting or that we condone that kind of behaviour. Instead PM us with the link and show us where the problem is. That is the only way you can ever assume that we've seen the potential problem. So, it isn't a case of "the moderators not paying enough attention" it is more a case of the members needing to be more pro-active and aiding the moderators.

It was an informative read and quite accurate, IMO. I don't think it takes policing the boards to effectively moderate those members who fit the description.

But if we are not shown the posts where there is a problem it will continue. We don't follow certain members around reading their posts so, if they post something that you think crosses the line, take some bloody action and let us know. Don't whine about it and say "oh, why don't the mods do anything!" PM us, let us know, be pro-active. Some days I only have time to check my daily PMs and act on them, other days I am able to have a look around the board. If I am PMed though I WILL make an effort to do a clean up or a suspension or just a warning. That's a guarantee. If you don't PM me (or LaL) then these things WILL continue. Don't assume that someone else has PMed us either; we don't care if we have multiple PMs regarding the same thing.

To be honest I think some members LIKE to moan about the actions of others; it's easier to moan about it rather than actually do something about it themselves and PM a moderator. That's my POV anyway.

So, to clarify, if you want certain members to "behave", PM us a link to their posts and we'll have a look. If you don't, we won't know about it and can't act. If you want VJ to improve its attitude then everyone needs to play their part, not just depend on the mods to see every little thing (which is impossible). And that's really all I have to say on this as I've got to really go and do some painting. Bloody old houses.

Stop being such a bully. I'm gonna report you.

Seriously, we're all adults here. Also, from different cultures and backgrounds, different ways of speaking.

I hate to see anyone get their feelings hurt, but if you do, report it. Simple as that.

The mods and admin know how to do their jobs.

This is the way I speak by the way, straight forward, so sorry if I ruffled any feathers.

[rebeccajo 14]

I understand the expectation of members on what should be/should not be allowed, and we certainly try our best to mediate, however there is something to be said for personal responsibility as well. Treat each other as you wish to be treated

Sure. That's a given in any social setting.

But.....when the same people do the same stuff over and over and over and over and over again, what are members supposed to do about that? Especially if they (many) have asked over and over and over and over again for the problem to be corrected, and it is not?

A message board isn't like a building where you can show someone the door. Unless somebody in charge of the virtual space decides to show it to them.

[rebeccajo 14]

Rebecca, I agree a good political debate is something else. But it seems almost all the political debates here end the same way, not really good, LOL. A lot of insults fly in them.

Yeah, I've seen that.

I guess if you are going to discuss your politics and/or your ideals, you have to develop a 'thick skin'. Hard to do sometimes if you are passionate or believe deeply about something.

But.....one shouldn't participate in a debate if one is going to behave like a social retard about their views either. That's SUPPOSED to be the beauty of living in America - one can think or believe whatever one likes, and no one can force what they believe on another person. People who INSIST on this, that or the other philosophy kind of scare me. They show no capacity to learn or reason.

Edited November 7, 2007 by rebeccajo

[rebeccajo 14]

Excellent post Steven. Bullying DOES hurt people, whether in real life or online. And we are ALL people.

Hopefully the moderators will pay more attention to it, who is doing it on a regular basis and nip in the bud before we lose more members or they stop posting.

I'm just going to clarify something here because I don't think everyone has grasped exactly what the moderators jobs are around here.

We do NOT police the board (this fact is in the TOS for those who wish to have a look). We act on PMs sent to us and on anything we may come across on our general travels around the place. If you, a member, sees something that you do not like, whether this be attitude, a TOS violation or anything else that you feel needs attention then the onus is on YOU, the member, to let US know about it.

NEVER assume that we have seen it, never assume that we are not acting or that we condone that kind of behaviour. Instead PM us with the link and show us where the problem is. That is the only way you can ever assume that we've seen the potential problem. So, it isn't a case of "the moderators not paying enough attention" it is more a case of the members needing to be more pro-active and aiding the moderators.

It was an informative read and quite accurate, IMO. I don't think it takes policing the boards to effectively moderate those members who fit the description.

But if we are not shown the posts where there is a problem it will continue. We don't follow certain members around reading their posts so, if they post something that you think crosses the line, take some bloody action and let us know. Don't whine about it and say "oh, why don't the mods do anything!" PM us, let us know, be pro-active. Some days I only have time to check my daily PMs and act on them, other days I am able to have a look around the board. If I am PMed though I WILL make an effort to do a clean up or a suspension or just a warning. That's a guarantee. If you don't PM me (or LaL) then these things WILL continue. Don't assume that someone else has PMed us either; we don't care if we have multiple PMs regarding the same thing.

To be honest I think some members LIKE to moan about the actions of others; it's easier to moan about it rather than actually do something about it themselves and PM a moderator. That's my POV anyway.

So, to clarify, if you want certain members to "behave", PM us a link to their posts and we'll have a look. If you don't, we won't know about it and can't act. If you want VJ to improve its attitude then everyone needs to play their part, not just depend on the mods to see every little thing (which is impossible). And that's really all I have to say on this as I've got to really go and do some painting. Bloody old houses.

Stop being such a bully. I'm gonna report you.

Seriously, we're all adults here. Also, from different cultures and backgrounds, different ways of speaking.

I hate to see anyone get their feelings hurt, but if you do, report it. Simple as that.

The mods and admin know how to do their jobs.

This is the way I speak by the way, straight forward, so sorry if I ruffled any feathers.

There's nothing wrong with the way you speak. I kind of like it.

There's a difference between someone who speaks in a straight-forward manner, and someone who says what they have to say purposely to hurt others, or to draw others into a hot-pot.

[Mags 112]

But.....when the same people do the same stuff over and over and over and over and over again, what are members supposed to do about that? Especially if they (many) have asked over and over and over and over again for the problem to be corrected, and it is not?

I can honestly say I have not had more than a couple of PMs about anyone's repeated behaviour sent to me. Individuals, yes, trolls, yes, spam, yes, but over and over regarding certain members? No. It's mentioned in threads, of course, it's hinted at all the time, but unless someone actually sends me examples of that member's behaviour and backs it up so I can act, them I can't do much.

Making insinuations about people doesn't cut it, I'm afraid, send me cold, hard facts and then I'll do something.

[rebeccajo 14]

But.....when the same people do the same stuff over and over and over and over and over again, what are members supposed to do about that? Especially if they (many) have asked over and over and over and over again for the problem to be corrected, and it is not?

I can honestly say I have not had more than a couple of PMs about anyone's repeated behaviour sent to me. Individuals, yes, trolls, yes, spam, yes, but over and over regarding certain members? No. It's mentioned in threads, of course, it's hinted at all the time, but unless someone actually sends me examples of that member's behaviour and backs it up so I can act, them I can't do much.

Making insinuations about people doesn't cut it, I'm afraid, send me cold, hard facts and then I'll do something.

Ok.

[Bassi and Zainab 1]

It is amazing how some of the poster in this thread already fit the discription.... but of course they would never see themselves as bully's it just that others always misinterprate the meaning of there posts.... how many people does it take to read a post and be offended before the poster stops and thinks about the way they write their posts that makes all these people think they are being flamed....

And So it will continue....

Kez

I agree. Maybe we can add a smiley with a mirror?

[Bassi and Zainab 1]

If you're referring to me and the misinterpretation of my post earlier, that is really quite unfair and inaccurate...I'm not Monday morning qb'ing a 'oops you misunderstood'...clearly it says 'Steven' in my post, and I quoted and referred to a post of his.

Therefore I was referring to him, and not the other poster.

If you were not referring to me, then my bad! But I'm the only one who's claimed a 'misinterpretation' here, so I'm pretty sure that's what you're skirting around. Which is a bit unfair if you ask me. We cannot always prevent everyone on this site getting offended...

If people have complaints about someone, report it if it's so bad...don't just complain about it in a thread under a shroud of generality about 'some people'. The mods don't need 'schooling' and the wheel doesn't need any reinventing.

A little personal responsibility would be nice as well, to make the community welcoming to everyone. We should all be adults here, or at least over 18. Why can't we show common courtesy to each other when posting rather than requireing a moderator to tell us we've misbehaved like we are children? It's a frustrating process as it is, this place is supposed to be a supportive eye in the storm.

[Bassi and Zainab 1]

I bet we all have our own ideas on who is a bully or not, because some that people consider a bully here I might not, and someone who I might consider a bully others might not. If someone is just very opinionated it does not = bully to me. I also think ppl are implying Lisa is a bully, but sorry I don't think so. She is just opinionated (no offense Lisa!) as are many of us on VJ. I see a bully as someone who also violates the TOS during their pushy posts. If I see that going on I would report it. If it's just ppls' clashing opinions and no TOS is violated, I wouldn't report it, it's just someone with a strong opinion. In the past I have misjudged people who had strong opinions thinking they were really rude, but they turned out to be really nice people who just had strong opinions.

I agree with you to a point. I have strong opinions but respect that others have strong opinions as well. I don't try to make others agree with me or "rally" agreement with me on a board. I also don't feel state my opinion as fact or feel the need to belittle someone else's opinion as silly or irrelevant because I don't agree. It silences discussion. And that's what I consider bullying.

I state how I feel clearly on the boards where it occurs and then if I don't feel comfortable that they "get it" I leave. And I would state to what Mags posted, that I've never PM'd a moderator cause it seems ridiculous to me that people can't be responsible for their own personal behavior on the board. I don't think of the moderators as babysitters who I should go to complain because someone isn't "playing nice". You can't force people to be courteous and respectful. I just move on rather than feel abused or belittled, must less disrespected.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I have strong opinions but respect that others have strong opinions as well. I don't try to make others agree with me or "rally" agreement with me on a board. I also don't feel state my opinion as fact or feel the need to belittle someone else's opinion as silly or irrelevant because I don't agree. It silences discussion. And that's what I consider bullying.

I state how I feel clearly on the boards where it occurs and then if I don't feel comfortable that they "get it" I leave. And I would state to what Mags posted, that I've never PM'd a moderator cause it seems ridiculous to me that people can't be responsible for their own personal behavior on the board. I don't think of the moderators as babysitters who I should go to complain because someone isn't "playing nice". You can't force people to be courteous and respectful. I just move on rather than feel abused or belittled, must less disrespected.

Well said. We need your voice around here more.

[Fandango 1,440]

If you're referring to me and the misinterpretation of my post earlier, that is really quite unfair and inaccurate...I'm not Monday morning qb'ing a 'oops you misunderstood'...clearly it says 'Steven' in my post, and I quoted and referred to a post of his.

Therefore I was referring to him, and not the other poster.

If you were not referring to me, then my bad! But I'm the only one who's claimed a 'misinterpretation' here, so I'm pretty sure that's what you're skirting around. Which is a bit unfair if you ask me. We cannot always prevent everyone on this site getting offended...

If people have complaints about someone, report it if it's so bad...don't just complain about it in a thread under a shroud of generality about 'some people'. The mods don't need 'schooling' and the wheel doesn't need any reinventing.

A little personal responsibility would be nice as well, to make the community welcoming to everyone. We should all be adults here, or at least over 18. Why can't we show common courtesy to each other when posting rather than requireing a moderator to tell us we've misbehaved like we are children? It's a frustrating process as it is, this place is supposed to be a supportive eye in the storm.

I totally agree with you here. I was very vocal in the past for not wanting mods here. (Saying that, I think E made a perfect choice with the mods he did choose). I don't really think a community of our sort needs mods as teachers, referees, etc. We are all adults...and we should all be able to deal with the fact that there's a plethora of different personalities here, and we're not all going to get along all the time. Yet, at the same time, if this is really going to be an issue where people are saying that they feel so 'bullied' by a member that they are going to stop posting, well then a mod could be helpful in rectifying that. Me personally, if someone insults me, I would rather it stay up than be removed. If someone were to attack me online, I could easily brush it off because it really doesn't matter to me. But eh, I guess we're all different.

I just feel that instead of threads like this where everyone skirts around something, it'd be better to just go to the mods. I totally agree with Mags....some people just like to complain and not do anything proactive about it. In Steven's case, (the way I see it in this instance) he's all for wanting members not to get their feelings hurt, but yet he totally gave you a pat on the back when you responded to me. Which makes me go hrmm....cos obviously there was a miscommunication, and instead of diffusing it, he gave you a 'way to go!'. But if he were truly interested in making sure no one gets upset...why not just say 'hey Bassi, I think she was talking to me'

Stina....no offense taken, btw! Thank you for your opinion. I am quite opinionated, so no secret there! I wasn't captain of the debate team for nothing, lol.

[Fandango 1,440]

I just move on rather than feel abused or belittled, must less disrespected.

See that's a curious comment right there. Did you feel abused, belittled, or disrespected when you thought I was talking to you the first time here?

Cos I think that was a perfect example of how text is easily misunderstood at times....you felt 'hit by a train for voicing your opinion' when I wasn't even talking to you.

So where's the line of responsibility? Towards the supposed 'bullies' or toward the people who just MIGHT be misinterpreting what is said?

Edited November 7, 2007 by LisaD

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Lisa, bullying isn't about hurting someone's feelings ...it's about intimidation, ridicule, and belittling as a form of domination. Remember in school, playing king of the hill? Or how about the bully who'd push around smaller or less agressive kids for their amusement, to boost their ego. Typically, a bully can't socialize with others without an incessant need to dominate, and in the case of internet forums - they set out to ridicule other's for what they posted than actually adding anything productive to the discussion.

Here's from another internet site on internet forums:

People who bully are adept at creating conflict between those who would otherwise pool negative information about them. The method of creating conflict is provocation which bullies delight in because they know they can always coerce at least one person to respond in a manner which can then be distorted and used to further flame and inflame people. And so it goes on. The bully then sits back and gains gratification from seeing others engage in destructive behaviour towards each other.

Many serial bullies are also serial attention-seekers. More than anything else they want attention. It doesn't matter what type of attention they get, positive or negative, as long as they can provoke someone into paying them attention. It's like a 2-year-old child throwing a tantrum to get attention from a parent. The best way to treat bullies is to refuse to respond and to refuse to engage them - which they really hate. In other words, do not reply to their postings, and on forums carry on posting without reference to their postings as if they didn't exist. In other words, treat nobodies as nobodies.

http://www.bullyonline.org/related/cyber.htm

Edited November 7, 2007 by Mister Fancypants

[Ban Hammer 13,470]

OK, so what I'm hearing is that the moderators act on PMS. That scares me enough to leave them alone & do their job. (Which you do very well. I'm going over here now. If that's OK. Thank you.)

i had to clean my monitor after reading that