U.S. citizen arrested under state's new anti-illegal immigrant law, Hispanic advocate says

[NavarreMan 10]

You forgot to add the ACLU, the government of Mexico, and the illegal aliens themselves to your stellar list. LoL

LOL...and among that crowd it was worth mentioning the Republican National Committee Memorandum (it's highlighted in red above).

Here's my message to the RNC and their head illegal alien cheerleader Mel Martinez:

Ditto for Hillary, Obama, and that bunch that ####### all over themselves catering to illegal alien cheerleading squad too.

With as many problems as there are in this country it is ridiculous that are politicians spend so much time crapping all over themselves pandering to illegal aliens instead of seeing after the best interests of their constituents...the American people. Another 20 million illegal aliens dropping in on America is not in our best interests and they aren't doing a damned thing to address the issue except repeating the same lame mistakes of 1986 & 1996.

But wait a minute. Back up a little. You claimed the American people spoke and that's why the Immigration Reform Bill didn't pass. Yet, if you look at that Republican National Commitee Memorandum, it basically said, 'let's give the American people what they want.'

Like I said, solutions have been offered, on a federal level, but you and many others aren't satisfied with those solutions. Then you try to paint the issue as polemic for anyone who doesn't line up behind a very rigid approach to the problem. Some here have even claimed it to be a liberal vs. conservative issue.

At some point, regardless of anyone's opinion on the issue of immigration in this country (and yes that includes legal immigration, particularly since nearly half of those who are here undocumented, have overstayed their visas), there needs to be a compromised solution on a federal level. The states will not be able to solve a national issue by themselves.

Immigration and enforcement of immigration is a responsibility of the Federal government. Expecting states and/or local governments to handle it will only create a mess of conflicting laws. Not to mention, be very inefficient funding wise.

But then taking into account human nature, there are only certain things that will really work. The rest are just money pits with the illusion that its actually doing some good.

Ahh... that's the catch. The Federal Government does not expect the States to do their job. They are incapable of doing it themselves and would prefer that the laws just be ignored. It is the States that are rising up, almost militia style, to enforce the federal laws that our government cannot or will not enforce themselves.

It would truly be a test of Constitutional strength if a state like Oklahoma closed all roads going into the state and demanded ID at its borders to be granted entry. Would that violate constitutional rights of the American public? What inalienable rights do I have as an American citizen to have unfettered access to other states? I do not know the answer to this question. It is something I have always taken for granted. I’ll have to research it.

If a state can legalize gambling or prostitution what is to say that they cannot choose to aid in the enforcement of a federal law. All they would really have to do is adopt the law at state level. For example: In the 70’s the feds said that the max speed limit was 55mph. All states had to comply or risk losing federal money for roads. Feds lifted 55mph speed limit and many states kept the 55 limit as state law. Nothing unconstitutional about it at all. So if it a federal law to obtain legal immigration status to enter the USA, how is it unconstitutional for a state to uphold this law at a state level? The problems arise when you try to go counter to the federal laws. Like medical marijuana. But that is not the case here. Here the federal law exists and the states are trying to help out by enforcing the federal law rather than battle it.

The only problem I see is the fact that the feds should be doing their job themselves. The states should not be in the position to feel the need to render aid. Our borders and immigration system should be fully protected and enforced by the feds.

[Sprailenes 47]

''We are going to continue transporting our fellow Latinos no matter their status,'' Rivera said.

Just like they will continue to illegally immigrate. Any surprises here?

Laws? They don't need no stinkin' laws. They do what they want. Laws don't apply to them. Anyone surprised there either?

That's the mentality of these people.

Well I think the mentality is to save themselves and their families from extreme poverty but thats just me.

Maybe this country and other developed nations should start making trade fair and assisting countries who need it most.

[Caladan 19]

I don't break the immigration laws ... so I have nothing to fear ... do you ?

Yes. I fear being the victim of a crime committed by someone who's committed a string of crimes before this, except that everyone who was a victim or witness before me happened to be an illegal immigrant, so someone who otherwise would have been locked up is out on the streets hurting more people.

I can't believe people think that making crime victims and witnesses too afraid to come forward is a good thing. If you get robbed or beaten or raped and they never catch the guy because there are no witnesses willing to cooperate with the investigation, you'll have only yourself to blame.

I know, I know, it's just illegal cheerleading, because I'm not for shooting people, right? (Just as a point. I'm not sure why you people want to emulate Mexico or East Berlin, but you should know that all the shooting hasn't actually stopped people from working illegally in Mexico. And do you see yourself shooting the Irish illegals hanging out in Boston, or the Chinese grad students that periodically drop out, or the bride the guy hasn't filed for AOS for yet?) I think that's the operative definition around here.

But this is exactly right, and the primary reason I don't like a lot of these so-called 'reforms' which pretty much say, we're so obsessed with illegals that we don't care if we run our neighborhood into the ground (what happened in that one town; all the Hispanics moved out, leaving a boarded up nightmare and a bunch of people saying 'well, there's no shops, but at least there's no Mexicans) or about rights, at least we're doing something, are you for us or against us. (That's the sort of mindset that had us attack a secular power in the middle East when we were worried about radical religious terrorism. Hey, don't worry, the American people will swallow it, as long as you tell them 'at least we're doing something.' )

Local policing works when the community trusts the cops to be on their side, which means people have to feel like they can come forward with information. And that if they say 'I know who murdered the guy' the cops won't say 'Thanks, we're turning you over to be deported and charging your family with a felony, but you know, continue to do your duty!' My brother-in-law is a cop. He is safer if people feel like he's their champion, not their abuser. And city cops don't have the power to deport people, so I'd rather have local laws that worried about making the city safe, and leave the enforcement up to the feds. Why? Because even if you say 'at the end of the day our laws are just like the feds', the local New Haven police cannot deport someone.

Concrete things I would like to see done:

- I would be fine with deportation if I believed it could be done relatively inexpensively. (No, kids, we can't just shoot them. Awww, mom!) As it can't, and I think if you presented the American people with a bill once you add up the extra ICE, the extra judges, the extra jails, I think there is no way out of this that doesn't offer amnesty to some. (It's curious that you say 'the American people agree with me' yet not even the conservatives can get this sort of bill through.)

- Track people in the country with visa better. 40% of illegals didn't cross any border without inspection, so even if you get your little unlawful death squads on the borders, you still have four million people here. This should be the easiest place to start, because we already know that they entered, so it's a matter of keeping the system updated. Bonus, funds for this improve legal immigration.

- Guest worker visa for seasonal farm work

- Serious employer enforcement, and an updated SSA system, too.

Beyond that, the biggest thing that would close off that border would be a healthier Mexican economy. We don't have to worry about illegal Canadians.

[GabachaYucateca 0]

Number 6...I'm assuming that I'm the one being referred to when they talk about who specifically supports illegal immigration. I believe I'm also the one who people feel shouldn't be on this board because of my stance. But whatever, if discussion of buying ammunition to shoot at people crossing the border is acceptable here, then I suppose my initial flip comments should be as well. Certainly not accepted by those posting on this forum, but allowed to stand.

And in the state I live in, it's currently not against the law to associate with illegal immigrants.

My thoughts on the matter are quite convoluted, and this CERTAINLY isn't the forum to try to work them out, as people tend to get more rabid on VJ when talking about illegal immigration than any other forum (in real life or online) I've seen.

Honestly, I can see the validity in many arguments against illegal immigrants, but I just can't reconcile them with my sense of compassion for those who had to make difficult and dangerous decisions to leave their country. And you can call people like me all the names you want: bleeding heart liberal (like that's something to be ashamed of!), illegal enabler, traitor, whatever. And you can question why I did it legally if I support illegal immigrants and obviously have no regard for the law...well, doing it was the easiest option, as bringing my spouse here as a USC was easy and painless.

I see all these posters whipping themselves up into a frenzy on endless anti-illegal immigrant threads day after day after day. Rock on...you're not solving anything! In the meantime, people like me will continue to go about our business quietly.

[Sprailenes 47]

Number 6...I'm assuming that I'm the one being referred to when they talk about who specifically supports illegal immigration. I believe I'm also the one who people feel shouldn't be on this board because of my stance. But whatever, if discussion of buying ammunition to shoot at people crossing the border is acceptable here, then I suppose my initial flip comments should be as well. Certainly not accepted by those posting on this forum, but allowed to stand.

And in the state I live in, it's currently not against the law to associate with illegal immigrants.

My thoughts on the matter are quite convoluted, and this CERTAINLY isn't the forum to try to work them out, as people tend to get more rabid on VJ when talking about illegal immigration than any other forum (in real life or online) I've seen.

Honestly, I can see the validity in many arguments against illegal immigrants, but I just can't reconcile them with my sense of compassion for those who had to make difficult and dangerous decisions to leave their country. And you can call people like me all the names you want: bleeding heart liberal (like that's something to be ashamed of!), illegal enabler, traitor, whatever. And you can question why I did it legally if I support illegal immigrants and obviously have no regard for the law...well, doing it was the easiest option, as bringing my spouse here as a USC was easy and painless.

I see all these posters whipping themselves up into a frenzy on endless anti-illegal immigrant threads day after day after day. Rock on...you're not solving anything! In the meantime, people like me will continue to go about our business quietly.

I am with you.

[Sprailenes 47]

some of the comments regarding this issue on this board are just sad.

I didn't realize getting into the states legally gives you a free ticket to board the hate train.

I don't know, something about leaving your children behind and risking your life so you can come across and work crappy jobs, a lot of the time being mistreated and underpaid by employers, but still having that smile when you make in a week what many Americans make in a day just screams determination to me.

And I don't support illegal immigration, but I DO support humankind regardless of who they are and where they come from.

Yes the laws need to change. A fence isnt going to help. Minutemen aren't going to help. These ridiculous state laws about not being allowed to associate with them is not going to help. Its just dividing us as humans...the haves and the have nots.

Making trade fair is the first step I believe. Reduce poverty.

But hate...isn't going to fix anything.

[almaty 19]

Number 6...I'm assuming that I'm the one being referred to when they talk about who specifically supports illegal immigration. I believe I'm also the one who people feel shouldn't be on this board because of my stance. But whatever, if discussion of buying ammunition to shoot at people crossing the border is acceptable here, then I suppose my initial flip comments should be as well. Certainly not accepted by those posting on this forum, but allowed to stand.

And in the state I live in, it's currently not against the law to associate with illegal immigrants.

My thoughts on the matter are quite convoluted, and this CERTAINLY isn't the forum to try to work them out, as people tend to get more rabid on VJ when talking about illegal immigration than any other forum (in real life or online) I've seen.

Honestly, I can see the validity in many arguments against illegal immigrants, but I just can't reconcile them with my sense of compassion for those who had to make difficult and dangerous decisions to leave their country. And you can call people like me all the names you want: bleeding heart liberal (like that's something to be ashamed of!), illegal enabler, traitor, whatever. And you can question why I did it legally if I support illegal immigrants and obviously have no regard for the law...well, doing it was the easiest option, as bringing my spouse here as a USC was easy and painless.

I see all these posters whipping themselves up into a frenzy on endless anti-illegal immigrant threads day after day after day. Rock on...you're not solving anything! In the meantime, people like me will continue to go about our business quietly.

amen

[Scott & Lai 12]

I know, I know, it's just illegal cheerleading, because I'm not for shooting people, right? (Just as a point. I'm not sure why you people want to emulate Mexico or East Berlin, but you should know that all the shooting hasn't actually stopped people from working illegally in Mexico. And do you see yourself shooting the Irish illegals hanging out in Boston, or the Chinese grad students that periodically drop out, or the bride the guy hasn't filed for AOS for yet?) I think that's the operative definition around here.

Concrete things I would like to see done:

- I would be fine with deportation if I believed it could be done relatively inexpensively. (No, kids, we can't just shoot them. Awww, mom!)

Please provide exact quotes from anyone here who is advovating shooting people.

[Sister Fracas 5]

What I find interesting are the people who DO froth at the mouth and then go on to give all kinds of support and best wishes and congrats and all of that to a VJ member or their SO who may have had illegal activity like overstaying a visa or entering the country under pretenses other than tourist status and are now trying to overcome that and are waiting for a waiver. hmmmm..... hypocritical? Why not tell them to go home? Just throwing it out there...........

Edited November 6, 2007 by Frances

[Ban Hammer 13,445]

some of the comments regarding this issue on this board are just sad.

I didn't realize getting into the states legally gives you a free ticket to board the hate train.

I don't know, something about leaving your children behind and risking your life so you can come across and work crappy jobs, a lot of the time being mistreated and underpaid by employers, but still having that smile when you make in a week what many Americans make in a day just screams determination to me.

And I don't support illegal immigration, but I DO support humankind regardless of who they are and where they come from.

Yes the laws need to change. A fence isnt going to help. Minutemen aren't going to help. These ridiculous state laws about not being allowed to associate with them is not going to help. Its just dividing us as humans...the haves and the have nots.

Making trade fair is the first step I believe. Reduce poverty.

But hate...isn't going to fix anything.

got any proof of that?

[Dan J 277]

some of the comments regarding this issue on this board are just sad.

I didn't realize getting into the states legally gives you a free ticket to board the hate train.

I don't know, something about leaving your children behind and risking your life so you can come across and work crappy jobs, a lot of the time being mistreated and underpaid by employers, but still having that smile when you make in a week what many Americans make in a day just screams determination to me.

And I don't support illegal immigration, but I DO support humankind regardless of who they are and where they come from.

Yes the laws need to change. A fence isnt going to help. Minutemen aren't going to help. These ridiculous state laws about not being allowed to associate with them is not going to help. Its just dividing us as humans...the haves and the have nots.

Making trade fair is the first step I believe. Reduce poverty.

But hate...isn't going to fix anything.

got any proof of that?

Someone needs to watch the Penn & Teller episode about immigration. But then, how do fences stop those who overstay their visa?

[Ban Hammer 13,445]

some of the comments regarding this issue on this board are just sad.

I didn't realize getting into the states legally gives you a free ticket to board the hate train.

I don't know, something about leaving your children behind and risking your life so you can come across and work crappy jobs, a lot of the time being mistreated and underpaid by employers, but still having that smile when you make in a week what many Americans make in a day just screams determination to me.

And I don't support illegal immigration, but I DO support humankind regardless of who they are and where they come from.

Yes the laws need to change. A fence isnt going to help. Minutemen aren't going to help. These ridiculous state laws about not being allowed to associate with them is not going to help. Its just dividing us as humans...the haves and the have nots.

Making trade fair is the first step I believe. Reduce poverty.

But hate...isn't going to fix anything.

got any proof of that?

Someone needs to watch the Penn & Teller episode about immigration. But then, how do fences stop those who overstay their visa?

for those who think a fence does not work........

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=94596

[NavarreMan 10]

Well...I'm waiting...for your solution to stopping illegal immigration. You're either part of the problem or part of the solution. Which is it? Are you a problem solver or an enabler? Tell us your "good law" solution.

Open the borders with Mexico and Canada, and spend money on helping the Mexicans secure their borders.

This seems to work fine in Western Europe, why not here? Convincing the Mexicans to allow Americans to own property in Mexico would help as well.

Mexico secures their southern border with bullets. They shoot illegals they catch on it, then jail and deport those who survive. Wanna take up a collection to buy them more bullets?

Does it not occur to you that KILLING people just might be a little bit overboard???? I know you're not even saying that tongue in cheek. You really think that attempting to cross a border without permission should be punishable by death, without a trial? Are you one of those people who has a shotgun next to the door ready to shoot anyone who steps onto your lawn without permission?

Trial??? What trial? The point of this exercise to to repel them at the border or POE. Death is extreme but a boot firmly planted in the posterior might be more appropriate. And yes I do own a shotgun and other weapons that I will use to defend my life and property.

[Dan J 277]

some of the comments regarding this issue on this board are just sad.

I didn't realize getting into the states legally gives you a free ticket to board the hate train.

I don't know, something about leaving your children behind and risking your life so you can come across and work crappy jobs, a lot of the time being mistreated and underpaid by employers, but still having that smile when you make in a week what many Americans make in a day just screams determination to me.

And I don't support illegal immigration, but I DO support humankind regardless of who they are and where they come from.

Yes the laws need to change. A fence isnt going to help. Minutemen aren't going to help. These ridiculous state laws about not being allowed to associate with them is not going to help. Its just dividing us as humans...the haves and the have nots.

Making trade fair is the first step I believe. Reduce poverty.

But hate...isn't going to fix anything.

got any proof of that?

Someone needs to watch the Penn & Teller episode about immigration. But then, how do fences stop those who overstay their visa?

for those who think a fence does not work........

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=94596

They just need to wait until the entire fence is up, business will be booming again for metal cutters and shovels. Right now its just easier to go through a different place than to go through the fence. As long as the economics remain as they are, they will find a way.

[Ban Hammer 13,445]

some of the comments regarding this issue on this board are just sad.

I didn't realize getting into the states legally gives you a free ticket to board the hate train.

I don't know, something about leaving your children behind and risking your life so you can come across and work crappy jobs, a lot of the time being mistreated and underpaid by employers, but still having that smile when you make in a week what many Americans make in a day just screams determination to me.

And I don't support illegal immigration, but I DO support humankind regardless of who they are and where they come from.

Yes the laws need to change. A fence isnt going to help. Minutemen aren't going to help. These ridiculous state laws about not being allowed to associate with them is not going to help. Its just dividing us as humans...the haves and the have nots.

Making trade fair is the first step I believe. Reduce poverty.

But hate...isn't going to fix anything.

got any proof of that?

Someone needs to watch the Penn & Teller episode about immigration. But then, how do fences stop those who overstay their visa?

for those who think a fence does not work........

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=94596

They just need to wait until the entire fence is up, business will be booming again for metal cutters and shovels. Right now its just easier to go through a different place than to go through the fence. As long as the economics remain as they are, they will find a way.

you've not read too much about it have you? they can dig under the fence, cut the fence, and the sensors will pick that up and the border patrol will have plenty of time to get there and wait for them to finish working their way thru.