U.S. citizen arrested under state's new anti-illegal immigrant law, Hispanic advocate says

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You asked a question (in a public forum, after all), I replied. That's how VJ works!

And if you think people don't research getting married to a foreigner & all the legal ####### entailed, I think you are very far off the mark.

No I don't think that. I do think that some people get engaged without being fully aware of all the factors that could potentially complicate their petition, and I can see how that could easily happen. Again there's a whole forum of questions that speak to that - questions that the instructions on the forms and the USCIS website don't fully cover.

Exactly. You must miss those 'my journey is over' posts that pop up so often. Or the entire 'Divorce' forum.....

Not at all. I'm not going to pretend that every journey ends happily, certain not. Immigration is generally hard and painful, even if you don't have any constraining issues to hold you back. The long-distance thing is probably the biggest challenge most people face. IMO of course.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Exactly - I don't think its unrealistic that a prospective spouse could be in the dark about their fiance/e's prior criminal history from 20 years ago, or a previous visa overstay when they were just out of college, or prior drug habit - I can totally see how it might not come up much (or at all) while you're dating the person - until you start researching the visa application process. By then you're already committed - emotionally and otherwise. It might make things more difficult, complicated, or require the services of a lawyer - but as you say could I stifle a relationship, I'm not sure - Most likely not.

For one thing I tend to regard what's past as past - and that my view on things isn't quite as black and white as what is written down in say immigration or criminal law.

But I thought this whole discussion was about someone being an illegal NOW - not an offense committed 10 years ago.....???

Its a tangential issue, but not so far removed.

Not really - except that the expectation that people should know every little detail about a person before they decide to start a relationship, get married and start researching the immigration process is a little unrealistic and unreasonable.

And for the paranoid or oversensitive amongst us - no I am not saying that they exactly said this. But the point remains.

Why must one be labeled paranoid or oversensitive if they choose to avoid certain types of people as marriage partners?

What does that make those who do not choose to avoid to marry less than preferable types? Heroic? I think not.

Not what I mean't exactly - to clarify: the paranoid and oversensitive I was referring to are the ones who are/have thrown up a stink whenever someone interprets their posts beyond the exact words and phrasiology they chose to write.

As far as it goes "certain types of people" works as a generality, not when you apply it to specific cases. Again would you judge a prospective spouse as an "undesirable" simply because you learn about something from their past that might, quite plausibly, have never come up when you were dating?

Leaving aside our knowledge of having been through this immigration process - how are you supposed to know whether your spouses overstay from years ago is a problem, they might not even realise it themselves. Does this mean they should turn their back on the relationship because of it? I think I can say with confidence that many people on this forum wouldn't and didn't.

ooh, name calling, how mature!

Must have missed the name-calling there as much as a general description of your hysterical behaviour. Regardless the discussion had moved on since then but I guess you need to inject your bit of melodrama.

Suggest its time for you to $hit or get off the pot

Wow, so having a life makes me not able to reply a few hours later - to a very childish comment YOU made, very specifically about me, so deal.

Thanks Dev I feel well and truly chided

Feel free to go ahead and be scandalised by every single pos, which you seem intent on doing. Get your money's worth.

I'm not the one whining to close the thread.....

Sure - as I said we'd moved on since then and actually got to the root of our differences on that issue about people's relationships, in a polite manner I might add.

Then you showed up again. With your anger.

Edited November 9, 2007 by Number 6

[no name 1]

Exactly - I don't think its unrealistic that a prospective spouse could be in the dark about their fiance/e's prior criminal history from 20 years ago, or a previous visa overstay when they were just out of college, or prior drug habit - I can totally see how it might not come up much (or at all) while you're dating the person - until you start researching the visa application process. By then you're already committed - emotionally and otherwise. It might make things more difficult, complicated, or require the services of a lawyer - but as you say could I stifle a relationship, I'm not sure - Most likely not.

For one thing I tend to regard what's past as past - and that my view on things isn't quite as black and white as what is written down in say immigration or criminal law.

But I thought this whole discussion was about someone being an illegal NOW - not an offense committed 10 years ago.....???

Its a tangential issue, but not so far removed.

Not really - except that the expectation that people should know every little detail about a person before they decide to start a relationship, get married and start researching the immigration process is a little unrealistic and unreasonable.

And for the paranoid or oversensitive amongst us - no I am not saying that they exactly said this. But the point remains.

Why must one be labeled paranoid or oversensitive if they choose to avoid certain types of people as marriage partners?

What does that make those who do not choose to avoid to marry less than preferable types? Heroic? I think not.

Not what I mean't exactly - to clarify: the paranoid and oversensitive I was referring to are the ones who are/have thrown up a stink whenever someone interprets their posts beyond the exact words and phrasiology they chose to write.

As far as it goes "certain types of people" works as a generality, not when you apply it to specific cases. Again would you judge a prospective spouse as an "undesirable" simply because you learn about something from their past that might, quite plausibly, have never come up when you were dating?

Leaving aside our knowledge of having been through this immigration process - how are you supposed to know whether your spouses overstay from years ago is a problem, they might not even realise it themselves. Does this mean they should turn their back on the relationship because of it? I think I can say with confidence that many people on this forum wouldn't and didn't.

ooh, name calling, how mature!

Must have missed the name-calling there as much as a general description of your hysterical behaviour. Regardless the discussion had moved on since then but I guess you need to inject your bit of melodrama.

Suggest its time for you to $hit or get off the pot

Wow, so having a life makes me not able to reply a few hours later - to a very childish comment YOU made, very specifically about me, so deal.

Thanks Dev I feel well and truly chided

Feel free to go ahead and be scandalised by every single pos, which you seem intent on doing. Get your money's worth.

I'm not the one whining to close the thread.....

Sure - as I said we'd moved on since then and actually got to the root of our differences on that particular manner, in a polite manner I might add.

Then you showed up again. With your anger.

You whined to close it. Not me. 'Suggest its time for you to $hit or get off the pot ' - sound familiar?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You asked a question (in a public forum, after all), I replied. That's how VJ works!

And if you think people don't research getting married to a foreigner & all the legal ####### entailed, I think you are very far off the mark.

No I don't think that. I do think that some people get engaged without being fully aware of all the factors that could potentially complicate their petition, and I can see how that could easily happen. Again there's a whole forum of questions that speak to that - questions that the instructions on the forms and the USCIS website don't fully cover.

I can't imagine how one can miss immigration issues when considering marriage to a foreign expatriate, unless all these folks are on vacation in Las Vegas, drunk, freshly tattooed, and having quickie weddings at an Elvis chapel.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Page 41 and going strong.

I don't believe I've ever been more proud of ya'll!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You whined to close it. Not me. 'Suggest its time for you to $hit or get off the pot ' - sound familiar?

Yes I did. Because it had lost direction and because of the aforementioned anger and indeed your continually pissy attitude. The argument was going nowhere - except for you telling everyone how to interpret your posts. You stopped 'participating' a long time ago.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Page 41 and going strong.

I don't believe I've ever been more proud of ya'll!

Start pressing those medals of honor!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You asked a question (in a public forum, after all), I replied. That's how VJ works!

And if you think people don't research getting married to a foreigner & all the legal ####### entailed, I think you are very far off the mark.

No I don't think that. I do think that some people get engaged without being fully aware of all the factors that could potentially complicate their petition, and I can see how that could easily happen. Again there's a whole forum of questions that speak to that - questions that the instructions on the forms and the USCIS website don't fully cover.

I can't imagine how one can miss immigration issues when considering marriage to a foreign expatriate, unless all these folks are on vacation in Las Vegas, drunk, freshly tattooed, and having quickie weddings at an Elvis chapel.

Well as I said with prior overstays or old criminal records I don't think that it is impossible.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

You whined to close it. Not me. 'Suggest its time for you to $hit or get off the pot ' - sound familiar?

Yes I did. Because it had lost direction and because of the aforementioned anger and indeed your continually pissy attitude. The argument was going nowhere - except for you telling everyone how to interpret your posts. You stopped 'participating' a long time ago.

N6, you might as well give up.

[Peikko 1,575]

One should be careful with one's generalizations, no?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

One should be careful with one's generalizations, no?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

One should be careful with one's generalizations, no?

Seriously. How PC can you get?

Next thing you know they'll be saying I shouldn't go around saying that all Arabs are terrorists.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

One should be careful with one's generalizations, no?

Seriously. How PC can you get?

Next thing you know they'll be saying I shouldn't go around saying that all Arabs are terrorists.

Say it all you want. Saying it changes not a thing.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

One should be careful with one's generalizations, no?

Seriously. How PC can you get?

Next thing you know they'll be saying I shouldn't go around saying that all Arabs are terrorists.

Say it all you want. Saying it changes not a thing.

Precisely. And not like there's any value to exercising care and caution when expressing these generalizations. We all know that everybody is intelligent enough to know right from wrong and people never get incited or provoked, it simply isn't in human nature.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Generalisations are dangerous here - certainly if it could be interpreted through them that people's relationship choices and decision-making are being called into question.

That's probably a line we don't want to cross.

I'll put myself out there - I didn't have any constraining issues in my case, but I wasn't sure of the ins and outs of this process. VJ and other online sites like it didn't have half the resources and information that they do now, and they certainly weren't as accessible.

My fiancee and I couldn't afford a lawyer either - we had to take the process a step at a time.

Edited November 9, 2007 by Number 6