U.S. citizen arrested under state's new anti-illegal immigrant law, Hispanic advocate says

[Scott & Lai 12]

Well, it's certainly callous to observe nations that suffer from intense poverty and just say, "well, if only they would help themselves they'd be alright." As if somehow, the people in these nations are stupid or lazy.

It does require some input from those nations that have the wealth to be able to improve the situation of those nations that are impoverished.

The problem isn't simply a lack of money in the nations with intense poverty. The poverty is usually the result of corrupt or oppressive regimes. But then, we're told exporting democracy is a no-no....

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

Well, it's certainly callous to observe nations that suffer from intense poverty and just say, "well, if only they would help themselves they'd be alright." As if somehow, the people in these nations are stupid or lazy.

It does require some input from those nations that have the wealth to be able to improve the situation of those nations that are impoverished.

The problem isn't simply a lack of money in the nations with intense poverty. The poverty is usually the result of corrupt or oppressive regimes. But then, we're told exporting democracy is a no-no....

damned if we intervene, damned if we don't...........

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well, it's certainly callous to observe nations that suffer from intense poverty and just say, "well, if only they would help themselves they'd be alright." As if somehow, the people in these nations are stupid or lazy.

It does require some input from those nations that have the wealth to be able to improve the situation of those nations that are impoverished.

The problem isn't simply a lack of money in the nations with intense poverty. The poverty is usually the result of corrupt or oppressive regimes. But then, we're told exporting democracy is a no-no....

If by "exporting democracy" you mean foreign interventionism, specifically war - then absolutely people are against that. Its about as euphemistic as "urban pacification".

damned if we intervene, damned if we don't...........

Damned out of the assumption that there's only one way to "intervene".

[Peikko 1,575]

No one is suggesting that this isn't a complex problem that would require some very imaginative solutions. Not every country that supports an impoverished population does so because of a lack of natural resources, but then not all are a result of corrupt regimes either.

What is suprising though, is that one can just dismiss these impoverished populations as lazy and stupid because they can't see a way to change their terrible situations and would rather move than simply starve.

[Nessa 23]

this thread needs kitty pics

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

this thread needs kitty pics

they better have a green card

[LaL 418]

this thread needs kitty pics

yes, it does

[Fandango 1,439]

I don't need no stinkin political party to represent my views; Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin. They have both proven to be worthless and ineffective when it comes to the bread and butter issues of the common man. Democracy was never a spectator sport and I have never played it that way. My representatives now know me by name. I've made sure of it. I am heard, and not just on this forum. Fear is what motivates politicians; make sure they feel the fear.

So for someone who has been outspoken about your political conservativism, how does your position jive with the traditional conservative view?

From the Wall Street Journal (July 2006)

.....

I think it's shocking that you're implying that she can't have her opinion and still call herself a 'traditional conservative'

Whether her opinion 'jives' or it doesn't does not minimize her opinion nor what political affiliation she identifies herself to be.....Let alone the irrelevance of such in this discussion

Now who's making it black and white, Steven????

omG I'm agreeing with Dev again.

Who are you and what have you done with devilette?

i've been wondering that too!

any chance you and dev can run for president?

I think we'd fight to the death over who would be the prez and who would be the veep

edited for typos

Edited November 7, 2007 by LisaD

[Mags 112]

I'm just going to wade in here and ask that everyone remember to keep this topic polite and respectful. Immigration is a subject close to our hearts and can get quite emotional, especially when dealing with illegal immigration.

I also want to remind people here that we have a fairly moderately size Mexican membership here on VJ, people who have gone through the same route as we did and felt the pain and anguish it causes, so please have a care and a thought for them. It can be quite painful for them to read many of the views expressed here, so, by all means you can discuss illegal immigration but just think a bit before making too many cutting comments. That's all.

[no name 1]

I am still astonished that anyone should think that's a good example of how to deal with the problem of economic migration. More than that, I am astonished that anyone should smile in the context of people losing their lives because a perilous journey is preferable to remaining in the poverty stricken status quo of staying in their country of origin.

Then again, if you think in the terms of 'so sad, too bad'...well, I guess it's not so astonishing.

Who said that?

Not easy to work to make your country better when you are doing nothing more than subsisting...but then in reality I believe, that globally, this is what should happen and would be part of a long term solution if all countries are really prepared to look at the world as a place we all live in, and not continue this "us and them mentality". I have always argued that we should look at what drives people to immigrate illegally and not just throw up the barriers and pretend that it doesn't matter.

Economic migrants, for the most part, don't actually want to live somewhere else, they want to live in their 'homes' which is why, suprise, suprise, many of those who do go elsewhere to better themselves continue to send money back to their country of origin and try to maintain their cultural heritage...some people think this is objectionable too.

and who said that? Are you a migrant? How do you know what they think?

Well, it's certainly callous to observe nations that suffer from intense poverty and just say, "well, if only they would help themselves they'd be alright." As if somehow, the people in these nations are stupid or lazy.

It does require some input from those nations that have the wealth to be able to improve the situation of those nations that are impoverished.

and again????

Oh of course, my bad. Economic migrants just want the easy way out don't they? They don't really have any problems at home that can't be fixed if only they had a bit of back bone and determination. Oh my, that's really...well, if you do believe that, then I guess it is not suprising that you think that illegal aliens are little more than scum under your shoes.

and again?

No one is suggesting that this isn't a complex problem that would require some very imaginative solutions. Not every country that supports an impoverished population does so because of a lack of natural resources, but then not all are a result of corrupt regimes either.

What is suprising though, is that one can just dismiss these impoverished populations as lazy and stupid because they can't see a way to change their terrible situations and would rather move than simply starve.

Wow, is that whole lotta putting words in people's mouths...!

Edited November 7, 2007 by devilette

[Fandango 1,439]

*snicker*

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I am still astonished that anyone should think that's a good example of how to deal with the problem of economic migration. More than that, I am astonished that anyone should smile in the context of people losing their lives because a perilous journey is preferable to remaining in the poverty stricken status quo of staying in their country of origin.

Then again, if you think in the terms of 'so sad, too bad'...well, I guess it's not so astonishing.

Who said that?

Not easy to work to make your country better when you are doing nothing more than subsisting...but then in reality I believe, that globally, this is what should happen and would be part of a long term solution if all countries are really prepared to look at the world as a place we all live in, and not continue this "us and them mentality". I have always argued that we should look at what drives people to immigrate illegally and not just throw up the barriers and pretend that it doesn't matter.

Economic migrants, for the most part, don't actually want to live somewhere else, they want to live in their 'homes' which is why, suprise, suprise, many of those who do go elsewhere to better themselves continue to send money back to their country of origin and try to maintain their cultural heritage...some people think this is objectionable too.

and who said that? Are you a migrant? How do you know what they think?

Well, it's certainly callous to observe nations that suffer from intense poverty and just say, "well, if only they would help themselves they'd be alright." As if somehow, the people in these nations are stupid or lazy.

It does require some input from those nations that have the wealth to be able to improve the situation of those nations that are impoverished.

and again????

Oh of course, my bad. Economic migrants just want the easy way out don't they? They don't really have any problems at home that can't be fixed if only they had a bit of back bone and determination. Oh my, that's really...well, if you do believe that, then I guess it is not suprising that you think that illegal aliens are little more than scum under your shoes.

and again?

No one is suggesting that this isn't a complex problem that would require some very imaginative solutions. Not every country that supports an impoverished population does so because of a lack of natural resources, but then not all are a result of corrupt regimes either.

What is suprising though, is that one can just dismiss these impoverished populations as lazy and stupid because they can't see a way to change their terrible situations and would rather move than simply starve.

Wow, is that whole lotta putting words in people's mouths...!

Seems to work for you. Can't handle own medicine can we?

Needless to say her interpretation of comments made in the thread isn't that far off. You seem to be under the bizarre illusion that a person can't paraphrase those comments to make a general point, or that because the exact words of the paraphrase weren't said verbatim by any one person that they have no meaning, relevance or validity.

Little disingenuous don't you think?

Edited November 7, 2007 by Number 6

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

*snicker*

me too!

[Mags 112]

Good grief. Am I invisible? Am I talking out of my bottom and therefore speaking a different language? Stop with the antagonism and stuff of which the words fail me at the moment (am rather light headed from kilz2 fumes so pardon my ditziness). Stop it all, otherwise it'll be.....hammer locky time.

[JODO 2]