U.S. citizen arrested under state's new anti-illegal immigrant law, Hispanic advocate says

[one...two...tree 2,762]

And just to add to the discussion:

Schools Feel Impact Of Oklahoma's Immigration Law

KOTV - 11/6/2007 10:34 AM - Updated 11/7/2007 8:15 AM

Tulsa School officials say the state's new immigration law is having an impact across the district. The News On 6’s Ashli Sims reports while the fedeal courts continue to sort out the legal implications of House Bill 1804, some Tulsa School leaders say they are already feeling the fallout.

Ten years ago at Marshall Elementary School there was just a sprinkle of Spanish. Four years ago, there was a flood. Marshall is now 50% Hispanic and that is changed the very fabric of the school. Now with House Bill 1804, Marshall's principal says that fabric is ripping. She sees it in her students and teachers.

"It terrifies them. They hate it. There's been a lot of tears shed. They don't want their friends to go,” says Principal Kayla Robinson.

She says Hispanic friends are going as many as eight in just one week.

"The passage of 1804 has caused a number of our families to leave Tulsa. In fact to date, 22 Hispanic students have left our school,” said Principal Kayla Robinson.

Principal Robinson says that's about a classroom worth of kids. But that's not an official count. Tulsa Public Schools says the district won't know exactly how 1804 is affecting schools for another week, because students have to be gone for ten days before they're taken off the rolls.

Kayla Robinson says she's talked to several Hispanic families who have left out of fear.

"They have achieved good jobs. They pay market value rent in great apartments in this neighborhood. And, they want to continue that. So they feel like, many of them have to go elsewhere,” said Principal Kayla Robinson.

Some argue Oklahoma taxpayers shouldn't have to pay to educate students, who are here illegally. Principal Robinson says in her experience families aren't returning to Mexico or Latin America.

"Our families are going to other states. They're going to California and Houston, Atlanta. Places where they can get jobs as good or better than the ones they had here,” said Marshall Elementary Principal Kayla Robinson.

Oklahoma is asking a federal judge to throw out a lawsuit challenging a controversial new immigration law. A coalition of Hispanic leaders filed a lawsuit against House Bill 1804, almost two weeks ago. They also tried to get an injunction to stop the law from taking effect, but were rejected.

In Tuesday's filing, the AG's office claims the immigrants, churches, and businesses named in the suit have no standing. The lawsuit challenging House Bill 1804 will continue to move forward. The plaintiffs are expected to respond to the motion to dismiss later this week.

Interesting. Thanks for posting, Cassie.

[Heracles 417]

After all the richest man in the entire WORLD lives there. Mexico's GDP rank is 14 out of 194 countries; Hardly a 3rd world nation..

The reality is that these people simply do not want to wait their turn, like everybody else, and have jumped the line. Nothing else to it.

PS In terms of living standards, going from a Datsun to a 1983 Honda Civic is hardly an upgrade..

Well again you're making a fairly big assumption here that the wealth in Mexico is distributed evenly, as opposed to being concentrated in the hands of a very few, very rich people.

So whether it doesn't meet the criteria for 3rd world nation (on paper), it probably doesn't mean much with regard to the daily experience of the general population.

That workings of Mexico is not Americans problem. Nor should it be. Corruption is high in Mexico. The wealth gap is extremely huge there. America should not be be forced to deal with Mexico's poor.

"Should not" is all well and good but it isn't the reality. The reality is we are dealing with that country's poor, and the poverty and unemployment problems here have spilled over the border into this country.

As I said earlier - I don't like that a downturn in the economy here can cause a recession in the UK, but whether I like it or not it doesn't change the simple truth that our economy and general quality of life are to some extent, inter-related.

"Spilled over" because there is no proper fence to prevent them from doing so; at their leisure. Its not as if nothing can be done. OK is a good example of what can be done, with ease, to stem the flow and growth of illegal immigrants. Now combine these measures with tough penalties for anyone hiring or providing services to illegal immigrants and presto; illegal immigration is cut at the root.

Except that you still have a pool of very poor, desperate people whose motivation to do what they do is essentially unchanged.

And so does America. Where should our responsibility lie? For poor Americans or for poor Mexicans?? It is illogical to think we can help both at once.

Edited November 7, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

After all the richest man in the entire WORLD lives there. Mexico's GDP rank is 14 out of 194 countries; Hardly a 3rd world nation..

The reality is that these people simply do not want to wait their turn, like everybody else, and have jumped the line. Nothing else to it.

PS In terms of living standards, going from a Datsun to a 1983 Honda Civic is hardly an upgrade..

Well again you're making a fairly big assumption here that the wealth in Mexico is distributed evenly, as opposed to being concentrated in the hands of a very few, very rich people.

So whether it doesn't meet the criteria for 3rd world nation (on paper), it probably doesn't mean much with regard to the daily experience of the general population.

That workings of Mexico is not Americans problem. Nor should it be. Corruption is high in Mexico. The wealth gap is extremely huge there. America should not be be forced to deal with Mexico's poor.

"Should not" is all well and good but it isn't the reality. The reality is we are dealing with that country's poor, and the poverty and unemployment problems here have spilled over the border into this country.

As I said earlier - I don't like that a downturn in the economy here can cause a recession in the UK, but whether I like it or not it doesn't change the simple truth that our economy and general quality of life are to some extent, inter-related.

"Spilled over" because there is no proper fence to prevent them from doing so; at their leisure. Its not as if nothing can be done. OK is a good example of what can be done, with ease, to stem the flow and growth of illegal immigrants. Now combine these measures with tough penalties for anyone hiring or providing services to illegal immigrants and presto; illegal immigration is cut at the root.

Except that you still have a pool of very poor, desperate people whose motivation to do what they do is essentially unchanged.

And so does America. Where should our responsibility lie? For poor Americans or for poor Mexicans?? It is illogical to think we can help both at once.

But its Mexican poverty that is the cause of the migration...

[Heracles 417]

Many pro-illegal immigrants here seem to beat around bush on the poverty issue.

That is, what happens to America's poor when the illegal immigrants are taking up a large number of the lower skilled jobs?? Or do we just use the status quo and blame it on slavery..

The realty is that is when we have two candidates applying for a job, such as poor American or an illegal immigrant, the illegal immigrant usually wins due to their much lower cost.

Edited November 7, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Ban Hammer 13,230]

if it's any consolation, i was rooting for her to get that visa. however, i feel this is still a good example as that is what pedroh was talking about. next time you talk to miss liss please pass along a hello from me and my warm wishes that she does well.

Unfortunately we don't talk anymore. Things in our lives took different directions and we just moved on. I'm sure she would appreciate what you said though. She always thought everyone on here was rooting against her.

i miss seeing her on vj.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Many pro-illegal immigrants here seem to beat around bush on the poverty issue.

That is, what happens to America's poor when the illegal immigrants are taking up a large number of the lower skilled jobs?? Or do we just use the status quo and blame it on slavery..

Well speaking for myself I'm not "pro-illegal immigrant", so lets not go there

As for the illegal immigrants taking up lower skilled jobs - perhaps that's because some of these employers can get away with paying illegals less than the legal minimum for USCs while being able to cut corners on general employer/employee regulations.

[Peikko 1,575]

The most bizarre thing I have read so far is the 'controlled compassion' argument. I have no idea how one does that. To be able to compartmentalize your capacity for compassion simply on whether someone has crossed a border with the correct documentation or not is just...well, I am pretty lost for words on that one.

No, I tell a lie, the most bizarre thing I have read was the quote that "The reality is that these people simply do not want to wait their turn, like everybody else, and have jumped the line. Nothing else to it." Wait their turn? That's why they come illegally because they don't want to wait their turn?

[Heracles 417]

Many pro-illegal immigrants here seem to beat around bush on the poverty issue.

That is, what happens to America's poor when the illegal immigrants are taking up a large number of the lower skilled jobs?? Or do we just use the status quo and blame it on slavery..

The realty is that is when we have two candidates applying for a job, such as poor American or an illegal immigrant, the illegal immigrant usually wins due to their much lower cost.

Well speaking for myself I'm not "pro-illegal immigrant", so lets not go there

As for the illegal immigrants taking up lower skilled jobs - perhaps that's because some of these employers can get away with paying illegals less than the legal minimum for USCs while being able to cut corners on general employer/employee regulations.

The real cost of illegal immigration is never discussed. I found out the other day how an elementary school has now hired 5 new teachers to deal with non-English speaking students. As a consequence they have had to cut back in other areas to pay for it.

[pedroh 21]

Many pro-illegal immigrants here seem to beat around bush on the poverty issue.

That is, what happens to America's poor when the illegal immigrants are taking up a large number of the lower skilled jobs?? Or do we just use the status quo and blame it on slavery..

The realty is that is when we have two candidates applying for a job, such as poor American or an illegal immigrant, the illegal immigrant usually wins due to their much lower cost.

if they apply for a job, construction, or food processing plant, they get paid the same.. go to smithfields, mountaire or any other food plant, they pay the same thing doesn't matter if ur papers are good or not... you're talking only about cash jobs, or farm jobs.. so, no, if they 'usually win' is because an illegal immigrant won't quit his job after 2 weeks

[SMOKE 1,426]

Many pro-illegal immigrants here seem to beat around bush on the poverty issue.

That is, what happens to America's poor when the illegal immigrants are taking up a large number of the lower skilled jobs?? Or do we just use the status quo and blame it on slavery..

Well speaking for myself I'm not "pro-illegal immigrant", so lets not go there

ever read any of your posts?

[Heracles 417]

The most bizarre thing I have read so far is the 'controlled compassion' argument. I have no idea how one does that. To be able to compartmentalize your capacity for compassion simply on whether someone has crossed a border with the correct documentation or not is just...well, I am pretty lost for words on that one.

No, I tell a lie, the most bizarre thing I have read was the quote that "The reality is that these people simply do not want to wait their turn, like everybody else, and have jumped the line. Nothing else to it." Wait their turn? That's why they come illegally because they don't want to wait their turn?

LOL Small technicality right that they have no documents.. LOL

Are you implying that due to their circumstances they are more entitled than anybody else to come here as they see fit.

Can you tell me what the EU would do if we dumped 12,000,000 illegal immigrants in Europe?? Actually I will answer for you. They would round them up, one by one, and send them back. Gezz how uncompassionate of them to do so..

[Heracles 417]

Many pro-illegal immigrants here seem to beat around bush on the poverty issue.

That is, what happens to America's poor when the illegal immigrants are taking up a large number of the lower skilled jobs?? Or do we just use the status quo and blame it on slavery..

The realty is that is when we have two candidates applying for a job, such as poor American or an illegal immigrant, the illegal immigrant usually wins due to their much lower cost.

if they apply for a job, construction, or food processing plant, they get paid the same.. go to smithfields, mountaire or any other food plant, they pay the same thing doesn't matter if ur papers are good or not... you're talking only about cash jobs, or farm jobs.. so, no, if they 'usually win' is because an illegal immigrant won't quit his job after 2 weeks

That is what is so unfair about the system. Large companies are forced to higher fully documented workers otherwise they are canned but middle to small sized businesses are free to hire whoever they see fit.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Many pro-illegal immigrants here seem to beat around bush on the poverty issue.

That is, what happens to America's poor when the illegal immigrants are taking up a large number of the lower skilled jobs?? Or do we just use the status quo and blame it on slavery..

Well speaking for myself I'm not "pro-illegal immigrant", so lets not go there

ever read any of your posts?

Sure - I did write them after all, but perhaps you didn't. As I said I am not pro-illegal immigrant, but then again I am not one of the extremists who can't interpret a contrary opinion as anything else.

[GabachaYucateca 0]

Why are you so sure that the teachers were hired to teach children of illegal immigrants? Are there no legal immigrants who come here with limited English skills?

So you're saying that ALL children who don't speak English are illegal themselves or children of illegals? That's quite the leap!

Are you unfamiliar with refugees and people who come here legally yet do not know English? Because I know dozens of childreb whose parents are legal permanent residents and are learning or have learned English upon their arrival.

[no name 1]

Can you tell me what the EU would do if we dumped 12,000,000 illegal immigrants in Europe?? Actually I will answer for you. They would round them up, one by one, and send them back. Gezz how uncompassionate of them to do so..

Spain apparently has upped their patrols & IT WORKS!!!

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=94901