U.S. citizen arrested under state's new anti-illegal immigrant law, Hispanic advocate says

[SMOKE 1,426]

That position right there throws these debates into black and white because if you believe it's that open and shut, any deviation from that view point is considered the polar opposite. I closes off the chance for finding middle ground. I hope that many here can see that or these threads will continue to go round and round to nowhere. That isn't debate....that's a shouting match.

no steven. your refusal to accept people don't agree w/ you & the 5-10 threads a day you start preaching to the rest of us turns this into a shouting match everytime! steven you are a great guy. but, have you ever though you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more.

[Cassie 8]

That position right there throws these debates into black and white because if you believe it's that open and shut, any deviation from that view point is considered the polar opposite. I closes off the chance for finding middle ground. I hope that many here can see that or these threads will continue to go round and round to nowhere. That isn't debate....that's a shouting match.

no steven. your refusal to accept people don't agree w/ you & the 5-10 threads a day you start preaching to the rest of us turns this into a shouting match everytime! steven you are a great guy. but, have you ever though you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more.

In your opinion.

[Ban Hammer 13,230]

From the Wall Street Journal (July 2006)

Those migrating here to make a better life for themselves and their families would much prefer to come legally. Give them more legal ways to enter the country, and we are likely to reduce illegal immigration far more effectively than any physical barrier along the Rio Grande ever could. This is not about rewarding bad behavior. It's about bringing immigration policy in line with economic and human reality. And the reality is that the U.S. has a growing demand for workers, while Mexico has both a large supply of such workers and too few jobs at home.

What a different reality 2007 is. The dollar is becoming worthless and the economy has stalled.

I do not know who is more oblivious to reality. Someone who promotes the use of cheap workers while the economy has stagnated and will probably fall into recession. Or the illegal immigrants who have chosen the worst economy to come to..

The US economy could be in the toilet and it would still be infinitely preferable for migrants than staying in Mexico.

you're just a bright spot today ain't you?

[SMOKE 1,426]

That position right there throws these debates into black and white because if you believe it's that open and shut, any deviation from that view point is considered the polar opposite. I closes off the chance for finding middle ground. I hope that many here can see that or these threads will continue to go round and round to nowhere. That isn't debate....that's a shouting match.

no steven. your refusal to accept people don't agree w/ you & the 5-10 threads a day you start preaching to the rest of us turns this into a shouting match everytime! steven you are a great guy. but, have you ever thought you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more.

In your opinion.

did you read what i said? "have you ever thought you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more."

did i say he was? no.

[Cassie 8]

That position right there throws these debates into black and white because if you believe it's that open and shut, any deviation from that view point is considered the polar opposite. I closes off the chance for finding middle ground. I hope that many here can see that or these threads will continue to go round and round to nowhere. That isn't debate....that's a shouting match.

no steven. your refusal to accept people don't agree w/ you & the 5-10 threads a day you start preaching to the rest of us turns this into a shouting match everytime! steven you are a great guy. but, have you ever thought you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more.

In your opinion.

did you read what i said? "have you ever thought you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more."

did i say he was? no.

Nah, you just said this and inferred it instead:

no steven. your refusal to accept people don't agree w/ you & the 5-10 threads a day you start preaching to the rest of us turns this into a shouting match everytime! Which then leads into a statement about how he may be part of the reason VJ is so confrontational (**).

I'm still waiting to hear if a Tulsa resident got arrested under the new law and charged and what her name is, because I still haven't found afollow-up story to the OP's story.

**which is ironic to me, since VJ has always had confrontation in the 3+ years that I have participated on this board.

[Ban Hammer 13,230]

That position right there throws these debates into black and white because if you believe it's that open and shut, any deviation from that view point is considered the polar opposite. I closes off the chance for finding middle ground. I hope that many here can see that or these threads will continue to go round and round to nowhere. That isn't debate....that's a shouting match.

no steven. your refusal to accept people don't agree w/ you & the 5-10 threads a day you start preaching to the rest of us turns this into a shouting match everytime! steven you are a great guy. but, have you ever thought you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more.

In your opinion.

did you read what i said? "have you ever thought you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more."

did i say he was? no.

Nah, you just said this and inferred it instead:

no steven. your refusal to accept people don't agree w/ you & the 5-10 threads a day you start preaching to the rest of us turns this into a shouting match everytime! Which then leads into a statement about how he may be part of the reason VJ is so confrontational (**).

I'm still waiting to hear if a Tulsa resident got arrested under the new law and charged and what her name is, because I still haven't found afollow-up story to the OP's story.

**which is ironic to me, since VJ has always had confrontation in the 3+ years that I have participated on this board.

not true! spreader of lies!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That position right there throws these debates into black and white because if you believe it's that open and shut, any deviation from that view point is considered the polar opposite. I closes off the chance for finding middle ground. I hope that many here can see that or these threads will continue to go round and round to nowhere. That isn't debate....that's a shouting match.

no steven. your refusal to accept people don't agree w/ you & the 5-10 threads a day you start preaching to the rest of us turns this into a shouting match everytime! steven you are a great guy. but, have you ever thought you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more.

In your opinion.

did you read what i said? "have you ever thought you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more."

did i say he was? no.

Technically your first sentence contradicts the second. In the first you are making an explicit statement, in the second you are making an implication.

Steven is mostly right (IMO) in his assessment of this topic - anyone, for example, who doesn't jump on the bandwagon to support anything that has the words "illegal immigrant" and "law" in it - seems to be painted as an enabler, supporter or sympathiser.

In fact, a good number of people have said no such thing - only that they don't agree with unfair laws that promote discrimination, or indeed in addition to enforcement a longer sighted approach is called for to address the underlying motivation for these migrants.

[Cassie 8]

That position right there throws these debates into black and white because if you believe it's that open and shut, any deviation from that view point is considered the polar opposite. I closes off the chance for finding middle ground. I hope that many here can see that or these threads will continue to go round and round to nowhere. That isn't debate....that's a shouting match.

no steven. your refusal to accept people don't agree w/ you & the 5-10 threads a day you start preaching to the rest of us turns this into a shouting match everytime! steven you are a great guy. but, have you ever thought you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more.

In your opinion.

did you read what i said? "have you ever thought you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more."

did i say he was? no.

Nah, you just said this and inferred it instead:

no steven. your refusal to accept people don't agree w/ you & the 5-10 threads a day you start preaching to the rest of us turns this into a shouting match everytime! Which then leads into a statement about how he may be part of the reason VJ is so confrontational (**).

I'm still waiting to hear if a Tulsa resident got arrested under the new law and charged and what her name is, because I still haven't found afollow-up story to the OP's story.

**which is ironic to me, since VJ has always had confrontation in the 3+ years that I have participated on this board.

not true! spreader of lies!

:P

[Caladan 19]

That position right there throws these debates into black and white because if you believe it's that open and shut, any deviation from that view point is considered the polar opposite. I closes off the chance for finding middle ground. I hope that many here can see that or these threads will continue to go round and round to nowhere. That isn't debate....that's a shouting match.

no steven. your refusal to accept people don't agree w/ you & the 5-10 threads a day you start preaching to the rest of us turns this into a shouting match everytime! steven you are a great guy. but, have you ever thought you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more.

In your opinion.

did you read what i said? "have you ever thought you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more."

did i say he was? no.

Technically your first sentence contradicts the second. In the first you are making an explicit statement, in the second you are making an implication.

Steven is mostly right (IMO) in his assessment of this topic - anyone, for example, who doesn't jump on the bandwagon to support anything that has the words "illegal immigrant" and "law" in it - seems to be painted as an enabler, supporter or sympathiser.

In fact, a good number of people have said no such thing - only that they don't agree with unfair laws that promote discrimination, or indeed in addition to enforcement a longer sighted approach is called for to address the underlying motivation for these migrants.

Or pointing out how ridiculous this law is. The U.S. citizen, should she be charged, will be charged with a felony for associating with someone illegal. At most, her boyfriend is violating an immigration law - NOT a felony. (And more likely than not, he won't be charged or deported.) It's wildly disproportionate to make the punishment for being an 'accessory' to the 'crime' worse than the crime.

[NavarreMan 10]

That position right there throws these debates into black and white because if you believe it's that open and shut, any deviation from that view point is considered the polar opposite. I closes off the chance for finding middle ground. I hope that many here can see that or these threads will continue to go round and round to nowhere. That isn't debate....that's a shouting match.

no steven. your refusal to accept people don't agree w/ you & the 5-10 threads a day you start preaching to the rest of us turns this into a shouting match everytime! steven you are a great guy. but, have you ever thought you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more.

In your opinion.

did you read what i said? "have you ever thought you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more."

did i say he was? no.

Technically your first sentence contradicts the second. In the first you are making an explicit statement, in the second you are making an implication.

Steven is mostly right (IMO) in his assessment of this topic - anyone, for example, who doesn't jump on the bandwagon to support anything that has the words "illegal immigrant" and "law" in it - seems to be painted as an enabler, supporter or sympathiser.

In fact, a good number of people have said no such thing - only that they don't agree with unfair laws that promote discrimination, or indeed in addition to enforcement a longer sighted approach is called for to address the underlying motivation for these migrants.

There is a difference between laws and privileges. All must obey the laws. Privileges are enjoyed by those who have earned them. The laws are designed not to discriminate but to protect our society's security and well being. While we do not have a perfect system it is the best thing going (IMO) and many of us will protect it at all costs. If you want to enjoy the privileges of living in America it should not be too much to ask that you start by earning said privileges by following the rules. Sabe?

Edited November 7, 2007 by NavarreMan

[pedroh 21]

Geez, Steven. Why don't you just come out and blankly state that you're pro-illegal and give the exchange some balance? One of the reasons that the discussion is often so black and white is because some of us are more committed to what feels good (having compassion for illegals and law-breaking) than doing good (standing up for our country's sovereignty).

I have loads of compassion, but my compassion is reserved for those who respect our borders and our laws. I have no compassion for illegals and would never marry or employ one. I have no compassion for accomodating illegals just because they're already here. I have no compassion for politicians and Latino supremicists who kiss Mexico's azz and try to tell us that we're racist because we're against measures that open the door to voter fraud. I have no compassion for what illegals and their broods have done to destroy our schools systems, even going so far as to import Mexico's curriculum into American schools.

My capacity for compassion for illegals and their supporters was shot by the hypocrisy of our government's agenda to privatize profits from cheap labor while holding out the hat to taxpayers for the costs illegals impose on our social structure. It was shot by illegals and their sychophants marching in my streets, telling me that I need to devalue my citizenship and hand over its privileges to them. It was shot by the underhanded manipulations of politicians putting forth propositions that erode the distinction between legal and legal, sovereignty and capitulation to the New World Order. My compassion was shot by the hypocrisy of a foreign government that shoots to kill at its southern border, yet demands, and gets, leniancy for its trespassers here.

That list is not all inclusive; I could go on. I don't need no stinkin political party to represent my views; Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin. They have both proven to be worthless and ineffective when it comes to the bread and butter issues of the common man. Democracy was never a spectator sport and I have never played it that way. My representatives now know me by name. I've made sure of it. I am heard, and not just on this forum. Fear is what motivates politicians; make sure they feel the fear.

what would you tell him? I love you but we can't get married, because I'd be enabling you. I guess the other people here that married an illegal had that question.. care about 'soverignity' or about my happiness..

[Heracles 417]

From the Wall Street Journal (July 2006)

Those migrating here to make a better life for themselves and their families would much prefer to come legally. Give them more legal ways to enter the country, and we are likely to reduce illegal immigration far more effectively than any physical barrier along the Rio Grande ever could. This is not about rewarding bad behavior. It's about bringing immigration policy in line with economic and human reality. And the reality is that the U.S. has a growing demand for workers, while Mexico has both a large supply of such workers and too few jobs at home.

What a different reality 2007 is. The dollar is becoming worthless and the economy has stalled.

I do not know who is more oblivious to reality. Someone who promotes the use of cheap workers while the economy has stagnated and will probably fall into recession. Or the illegal immigrants who have chosen the worst economy to come to..

The US economy could be in the toilet and it would still be infinitely preferable for migrants than staying in Mexico.

After all the richest man in the entire WORLD lives there. Mexico's GDP rank is 14 out of 194 countries; Hardly a 3rd world nation..

The reality is that these people simply do not want to wait their turn, like everybody else, and have jumped the line. Nothing else to it.

PS In terms of living standards, going from a Datsun to a 1983 Honda Civic is hardly an upgrade..

[Cassie 8]

I read yesterday that people are getting upset that the rules of getting an OK DL renewed have changed as well due to this new law. Used to be that if you didn't get your DL renewed before it expired, you had some sort of grace period. Now, even if you miss it by one day, you have to go through a new rigamarole to renew it. So now the law is unfair in their eyes.

[Heracles 417]

That position right there throws these debates into black and white because if you believe it's that open and shut, any deviation from that view point is considered the polar opposite. I closes off the chance for finding middle ground. I hope that many here can see that or these threads will continue to go round and round to nowhere. That isn't debate....that's a shouting match.

no steven. your refusal to accept people don't agree w/ you & the 5-10 threads a day you start preaching to the rest of us turns this into a shouting match everytime! steven you are a great guy. but, have you ever though you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more.

In your opinion.

Well count me in with tapout. That makes 2

[Cassie 8]

That position right there throws these debates into black and white because if you believe it's that open and shut, any deviation from that view point is considered the polar opposite. I closes off the chance for finding middle ground. I hope that many here can see that or these threads will continue to go round and round to nowhere. That isn't debate....that's a shouting match.

no steven. your refusal to accept people don't agree w/ you & the 5-10 threads a day you start preaching to the rest of us turns this into a shouting match everytime! steven you are a great guy. but, have you ever though you may be 1 of the reasons for the confrontational tone Vj seems to be taking on more & more.

In your opinion.

Well count me in with tapout. That makes 2

ahh read further my friend, apparently that's not his opinion.

Edited November 7, 2007 by Cassie