U.S. citizen arrested under state's new anti-illegal immigrant law, Hispanic advocate says

[pedroh 21]

are you sure they don't belive in population control dev?

yes, they do have campaigns for responsible procreation, but there's one big problem.. the church.. when my dad started practicing medicine they'd send him to small towns to give birth control talks and whatnot.. but, padre would talk about it on sunday mass, and.. condoms in the trash.. sad..

[no name 1]

are you sure they don't belive in population control dev?

yes, they do have campaigns for responsible procreation, but there's one big problem.. the church.. when my dad started practicing medicine they'd send him to small towns to give birth control talks and whatnot.. but, padre would talk about it on sunday mass, and.. condoms in the trash.. sad..

I think you answered your own question.

As I see it people are angry at the migrants because of the govts inability/unwillingness to do diddly squat about the problem. In the meantime you have people living in poverty on the other side of the border who have, for whatever reason decided that their immediate needs supersede considerations of immigration law. That is that reality - regardless of whether you want to wag your finger in the face of a person for being "immoral", or lacking "personal responsibility".

a.k.a. lacking personal responsibilty to find work/feed their family legally.

C. works with a couple Hispanic guys. Mexican originally, but here legally as far as he knows. As I've mentioned before, it's not really a personal responsibility thing, or a greed thing. They're from Mexico, and they hope to go back, but making $1200 a month as an assistant on an oil rig is like making $12,000 back home. There are no jobs back home. It's easy enough to say 'find work legally', but Mexico has 25% underemployment in a poor nation. Working legally probably means watching your family die.

This is not an argument for open borders. But when you say, 'why don't they just work legally' it sounds a little bit like a celebrity wondering why if the Ethiopians are so hungry in the famine, why don't they just go to the grocery store.

Mexico's population doubles every 20 years, perhaps they should have smaller families... I mean if you cannot afford to feed 3 (example) children, prehaps you shouldn't HAVE 3 children. Personal responsibility...

Scroll back 2 pages, 'they' don't believe in it.

Where does Hillary stand on immigration, Dev?

And whta does Hillary have to do with this conversation about an Oklahoma law?

Oh come on, Dev - this thread went into several different directions several pages ago and it hasn't stopped you from talking about other aspects of the debate.

Seriously though, how does Hillary's stand on illegal immigration stand with you?

I am not discussing my politics here, remember? And Hillary was not brought into this until you did it. Lame attempt at stirring it up!

[pedroh 21]

are you sure they don't belive in population control dev?

yes, they do have campaigns for responsible procreation, but there's one big problem.. the church.. when my dad started practicing medicine they'd send him to small towns to give birth control talks and whatnot.. but, padre would talk about it on sunday mass, and.. condoms in the trash.. sad..

I think you answered your own question.

you seem to know a lot about Mexico.. please keep your lecture, you might teach me stuff I didn't know.. oh.. btw, what's the name of that 'embassy'? lol..

btw.. im referring to rural towns.. the majority of mexicans do not live in rural towns, and the illegal population are also not from educated families or big cities where there's a bigger culture about it.. so generalizing about all the mexican population is not correct..

[one...two...tree 2,762]

are you sure they don't belive in population control dev?

yes, they do have campaigns for responsible procreation, but there's one big problem.. the church.. when my dad started practicing medicine they'd send him to small towns to give birth control talks and whatnot.. but, padre would talk about it on sunday mass, and.. condoms in the trash.. sad..

I think you answered your own question.

As I see it people are angry at the migrants because of the govts inability/unwillingness to do diddly squat about the problem. In the meantime you have people living in poverty on the other side of the border who have, for whatever reason decided that their immediate needs supersede considerations of immigration law. That is that reality - regardless of whether you want to wag your finger in the face of a person for being "immoral", or lacking "personal responsibility".

a.k.a. lacking personal responsibilty to find work/feed their family legally.

C. works with a couple Hispanic guys. Mexican originally, but here legally as far as he knows. As I've mentioned before, it's not really a personal responsibility thing, or a greed thing. They're from Mexico, and they hope to go back, but making $1200 a month as an assistant on an oil rig is like making $12,000 back home. There are no jobs back home. It's easy enough to say 'find work legally', but Mexico has 25% underemployment in a poor nation. Working legally probably means watching your family die.

This is not an argument for open borders. But when you say, 'why don't they just work legally' it sounds a little bit like a celebrity wondering why if the Ethiopians are so hungry in the famine, why don't they just go to the grocery store.

Mexico's population doubles every 20 years, perhaps they should have smaller families... I mean if you cannot afford to feed 3 (example) children, prehaps you shouldn't HAVE 3 children. Personal responsibility...

Scroll back 2 pages, 'they' don't believe in it.

Where does Hillary stand on immigration, Dev?

And whta does Hillary have to do with this conversation about an Oklahoma law?

Oh come on, Dev - this thread went into several different directions several pages ago and it hasn't stopped you from talking about other aspects of the debate.

Seriously though, how does Hillary's stand on illegal immigration stand with you?

I am not discussing my politics here, remember? And Hillary was not brought into this until you did it. Lame attempt at stirring it up!

LOL... Dev, this is a political and you've been engaged in the political debate going on here. I'm asking you the same kind of question I'd ask Gary...where does your candidate stand on this issue and how does that jive with you?

[natty bumppo 297]

are you sure they don't belive in population control dev?

yes, they do have campaigns for responsible procreation, but there's one big problem.. the church.. when my dad started practicing medicine they'd send him to small towns to give birth control talks and whatnot.. but, padre would talk about it on sunday mass, and.. condoms in the trash.. sad..

Do I understand this ...

The MX gov't wants and promotes birth control?

Next thought:

It's also sad to still hear that the padres are promoting a non-solution for their charges.

Times have changed ... it's no longer ... be fruitful go forth and ....

I've witnessed what you posted. Pedroh ... we agree ... did you feel the earth shake ?

[Sprailenes 47]

You know what even though some of us disagree, I still think you're all special and without our different views the world would be boring.

I just wanted you all to know.

Okay back to ripping each other apart.

[no name 1]

are you sure they don't belive in population control dev?

yes, they do have campaigns for responsible procreation, but there's one big problem.. the church.. when my dad started practicing medicine they'd send him to small towns to give birth control talks and whatnot.. but, padre would talk about it on sunday mass, and.. condoms in the trash.. sad..

I think you answered your own question.

you seem to know a lot about Mexico.. please keep your lecture, you might teach me stuff I didn't know.. oh.. btw, what's the name of that 'embassy'? lol..

btw.. im referring to rural towns.. the majority of mexicans do not live in rural towns, and the illegal population are also not from educated families or big cities where there's a bigger culture about it.. so generalizing about all the mexican population is not correct..

Sorry, where did I lecture you? I did not. I simply told you - you answered your own question! I'll be sure & highlight the relevant parts for you:

Question: are you sure they don't belive in population control dev?

Answer: yes, they do have campaigns for responsible procreation, but there's one big problem.. the church.. when my dad started practicing medicine they'd send him to small towns to give birth control talks and whatnot.. but, padre would talk about it on sunday mass, and.. condoms in the trash.. sad..

[no name 1]

LOL... Dev, this is a political and you've been engaged in the political debate going on here. I'm asking you the same kind of question I'd ask Gary...where does your candidate stand on this issue and how does that jive with you?

See here Steven:

I do not have anything in my siggie anymore. And I no longer care to discuss any personal opinions about candidates on VJ.

Now if you care to debate the issue at hand, and not an irrelevant personal topic, carry on.

[SMOKE 1,426]

***************BREAKING NEWS***************

Oklahoma has an anti illegal immigration law & we don't care if you like it..

still don't care if you like it.

[natty bumppo 297]

***************BREAKING NEWS***************

Oklahoma has an anti illegal immigration law & we don't care if you like it..

still don't care if you like it.

Send it here !!!!

[SMOKE 1,426]

***************BREAKING NEWS***************

Oklahoma has an anti illegal immigration law & we don't care if you like it..

still don't care if you like it.

Send it here !!!!

start hammering your gov't officials phone, email, & mailbox.

[natty bumppo 297]

***************BREAKING NEWS***************

Oklahoma has an anti illegal immigration law & we don't care if you like it..

still don't care if you like it.

Send it here !!!!

start hammering your gov't officials phone, email, & mailbox.

been there .. doing that

[Caladan 19]

This is not an argument for open borders. But when you say, 'why don't they just work legally' it sounds a little bit like a celebrity wondering why if the Ethiopians are so hungry in the famine, why don't they just go to the grocery store.

Sorry, did you mention your solution? Cuz I missed it inbetween all the name calling.....

Yes, I did. It's several pages back. I haven't called any names. Ridiculed positions yes, namecalled or insinuated that someone's only disagreeing 'cause their consulate wa Ciudad Juarex, no.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

LOL... Dev, this is a political and you've been engaged in the political debate going on here. I'm asking you the same kind of question I'd ask Gary...where does your candidate stand on this issue and how does that jive with you?

See here Steven:

I do not have anything in my siggie anymore. And I no longer care to discuss any personal opinions about candidates on VJ.

Now if you care to debate the issue at hand, and not an irrelevant personal topic, carry on.

I can resprect that, Dev. You know how I felt about these fruitless discussions on immigration as well. My point is - without talking about specific candidates, is that if you are completely against a guest worker program, there isn't a single leading candidate or party that takes such a harsh stance.

I know where you stand on most political issues and most of the time we agree. What I don't understand is how or why you adhere to such a rigid approach to immigration reform, given that many people whom you admire and respect politically see it vastly different?

There just doesn't seem to be any willingness by many here to find common ground ...to say, "I can see where you are coming from" or "I may not agree, but I can respect your thought process on this issue." I've never seen such nasty divisiveness over an issue ....it's even worse than talking about abortion, and one of the characteristics of the on going debate over immigration here in OT, is that people or positions get labelled and then the debate gets reduced to a black and white scenario.

[no name 1]

LOL... Dev, this is a political and you've been engaged in the political debate going on here. I'm asking you the same kind of question I'd ask Gary...where does your candidate stand on this issue and how does that jive with you?

See here Steven:

I do not have anything in my siggie anymore. And I no longer care to discuss any personal opinions about candidates on VJ.

Now if you care to debate the issue at hand, and not an irrelevant personal topic, carry on.

I can resprect that, Dev. You know how I felt about these fruitless discussions on immigration as well. My point is - without talking about specific candidates, is that if you are completely against a guest worker program, there isn't a single leading candidate or party that takes such a harsh stance.

I know where you stand on most political issues and most of the time we agree. What I don't understand is how or why you adhere to such a rigid approach to immigration reform, given that many people whom you admire and respect politically see it vastly different?

There just doesn't seem to be any willingness by many here to find common ground ...to say, "I can see where you are coming from" or "I may not agree, but I can respect your thought process on this issue." I've never seen such nasty divisiveness over an issue ....it's even worse than talking about abortion, and one of the characteristics of the on going debate over immigration here in OT, is that people or positions get labelled and then the debate gets reduced to a black and white scenario.

You respected me only after pushing & pushing me about it. And you wonder why everything is B&W on VJ?

I never said I was against guest workers - we were debating the OK law & it's recent issue with ONE (USC) WOMAN. I'm against illegals. Period. And apparently to many here, that means I'm evil & I label all 'people from that consulate' as something negative.

Edited November 7, 2007 by devilette