U.S. citizen arrested under state's new anti-illegal immigrant law, Hispanic advocate says

[LaL 418]

This is one step away from rationalizing (justifying?) (legalizing?) stealing because you're poor and hungry.

and robbing a bank because you don't have any cash.

Why take responsibilty when it's so much easier to blame the govt, not yourself! That seems to be the ongoing justification here.

If you don't want neighborhood kids stealing your car, you lock your car and take the keys in the house! But by all means, claim that you have the right to leave your keys in an unlocked car and have it be there in the morning.

Nice try. Apples & oranges.

Not at all. The US has left the car unlocked.

I could care less what the justifications are for the people who are here illegally. I honestly do not care about the abject poverty, etc. I don't think its right that they are here, but if the problem is to be fixed, the border shouldn't be so lax that its worth the risk.

But it seems in this climate of well the government shouldn't be blamed - people and smaller governments are taking it upon themselves. Good strategy!

/not

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

This is one step away from rationalizing (justifying?) (legalizing?) stealing because you're poor and hungry.

and robbing a bank because you don't have any cash.

Why take responsibilty when it's so much easier to blame the govt, not yourself! That seems to be the ongoing justification here.

If you don't want neighborhood kids stealing your car, you lock your car and take the keys in the house! But by all means, claim that you have the right to leave your keys in an unlocked car and have it be there in the morning.

Nice try. Apples & oranges.

How so? Just because you say so - seems to be a perfectly valid analogy to me.

Blaming the guy for stealing your car when you were negligent about its security is not that far removed from blaming the migrant worker for seeing to his economic needs as a result of decades worth of negligent/non-existent border security.

Stealing a car is nothing like living & working illegally in a country. That is a daily drain on our resources, not a one off insurance payment.

Well its a general analogy - not pretending its anything more than that.

[Kevin and 10]

Why should an I.I. hold US law with some type of regard, when the gov't doesn't? Its like some of old morality laws on the books people ignore because the laws aren't enforced.

[♥JP♥ 5]

You take that 'risk', such as it is, every day and you will continue to do so ad infinitum because at the last count, the US isn't planning on running a fence 100% around it's borders.

True but there is nothing wrong adding more security. Do you know how much easier it is for a young arab male/female to get a visa to Mexico or South America vs. the US?

[eau_xplain 2]

I would guess most people who come here illegally just think its worth the risk. I don't see how beating chests in the direction of the actual illegals is helping anything. If it's worth the risk, isnt something lacking in the "law" dept then?

It really seems like in the absence of the government doing ANYTHING the smaller compartments like state, local, neighborhood are just taking it upon themselves to "right the wrong". We have sanctuary city, things like OK is doing, media, protestors, and all the GTFO belters.

Seems pretty clear to me who is allowing all this to happen.

Interestingly enough, this was in the news today ...

Thousands Mistakenly Let Into the U.S. Tuesday, November 06, 2007

WASHINGTON — Some 21,000 people who should not have been allowed to enter the U.S. came through official border crossing points between Oct. 1, 2005 and Sept. 30, 2006, according to a government report released Monday.

After the 2001 terrorist attacks, the government reorganized its border security operations and increased security measures to prevent people from falsifying travel documents or using other deceptive methods to enter the country through such legal entry points as airports and border crossings. Some of the hijackers who carried out the Sept. 11 attacks entered the U.S. this way.

The Government Accountability Office found that Customs and Border Protection officers turned away 200,000 people who tried to enter the country through the 326 legal air, sea and land entry points during the 2006 fiscal year. The numbers do not include people who unlawfully entered the country through other routes.

The GAO's findings are based on a statistical estimate of the number of people who could have passed through the entry points, Customs and Border Protection's deputy commissioner, Jayson P. Ahern, said Monday. In reality, the government does not know exactly how many people passed through checkpoints who should not have been allowed in the country.

"The point is that we need to actually do a better job," Ahern said. Customs, as mandated by Congress, has stepped up efforts to make sure everyone who enters the country has a valid document, he said, and about 400 million people enter the U.S. through legal checkpoints each year.

Staffing shortages and poor management at legal border crossings are among the reasons that people got through improperly, GAO found. A publicly released version of its report states "several thousand" of these people made it past Customs and Border Protection officers. An official with access to more detailed information told The Associated Press the number is about 21,000.

The chairman of the House Homeland Security committee said these numbers should be a wake-up call for the Homeland Security Department, which oversees border entry operations. "As we continue to pump more resources into virtual and real fences between our ports of entry, we cannot afford to lose sight of other vulnerabilities at our borders," Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., said in a statement Monday. Thompson referred to the millions of dollars going toward a fence along the southwest border to prevent people from illegally entering the U.S. between controlled crossing points.

But James Carafano, a security expert at the conservative Heritage Foundation think tank, said fixing the problems pointed out in the GAO report is not a cure-all.

"It's a stupid way to look for terrorists," Carafano said, adding that a better system would look for terrorists not only at the border, but also at points long before they arrive there. Policing only legal entry points is "never going to catch everybody," he said.

Lee Hamilton, the vice chairman of the independent commission that investigated the 2001 terrorist attacks, said the GAO's findings represent a huge failure in the system. But Hamilton said people are always going to be able to slip through.

"You've got millions of people crossing these borders, and perfection is beyond reach," he said.

The Homeland Security Department has come under recent criticism because two men with a dangerous strain of tuberculosis were able to cross into the United States this year through legal entry points, despite instructions not to let them in.

While these men are not among the 21,000 cited in the report released Monday, they represent an ongoing problem in applying rigorous new screening techniques. There are weaknesses in the government's other screening methods as well. An October GAO report, for example, found that the terrorist watch list is not used as consistently as it should be.

Edited November 6, 2007 by eau_xplain

[no name 1]

This is one step away from rationalizing (justifying?) (legalizing?) stealing because you're poor and hungry.

and robbing a bank because you don't have any cash.

Why take responsibilty when it's so much easier to blame the govt, not yourself! That seems to be the ongoing justification here.

If you don't want neighborhood kids stealing your car, you lock your car and take the keys in the house! But by all means, claim that you have the right to leave your keys in an unlocked car and have it be there in the morning.

Nice try. Apples & oranges.

How so? Just because you say so - seems to be a perfectly valid analogy to me.

Blaming the guy for stealing your car when you were negligent about its security is not that far removed from blaming the migrant worker for seeing to his economic needs as a result of decades worth of negligent/non-existent border security.

Stealing a car is nothing like living & working illegally in a country. That is a daily drain on our resources, not a one off insurance payment.

Well its a general analogy - not pretending its anything more than that.

what? You asked how so & I replied showing 'how so'.....

Laughable.

Edited November 6, 2007 by devilette

[Peikko 1,575]

Let's see, I am a terrorist, I can apply for a visa to come to the US legally and attract no attention to myself or, I can take the risk of crossing the border illegally and getting caught? Hmmm, interesting choice isn't it?

[♥JP♥ 5]

Let's see, I am a terrorist, I can apply for a visa to come to the US legally and attract no attention to myself or, I can take the risk of crossing the border illegally and getting caught? Hmmm, interesting choice isn't it?

You think its that easy to get a visa from those parts of the world????

[no name 1]

Let's see, I am a terrorist, I can apply for a visa to come to the US legally and attract no attention to myself or, I can take the risk of crossing the border illegally and getting caught? Hmmm, interesting choice isn't it?

Where did anyone say thay would cross ILLEGALLY?

[Peikko 1,575]

Historically, the terrorists that have been successful have had no previous connection with terrorist organisations.

It's also sadly true that terrorists don't all live in the middle east.

Where did anyone say thay would cross ILLEGALLY?

The person who is arguing that a wall would increase security against terrorism.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

This is one step away from rationalizing (justifying?) (legalizing?) stealing because you're poor and hungry.

and robbing a bank because you don't have any cash.

Why take responsibilty when it's so much easier to blame the govt, not yourself! That seems to be the ongoing justification here.

If you don't want neighborhood kids stealing your car, you lock your car and take the keys in the house! But by all means, claim that you have the right to leave your keys in an unlocked car and have it be there in the morning.

Nice try. Apples & oranges.

How so? Just because you say so - seems to be a perfectly valid analogy to me.

Blaming the guy for stealing your car when you were negligent about its security is not that far removed from blaming the migrant worker for seeing to his economic needs as a result of decades worth of negligent/non-existent border security.

Stealing a car is nothing like living & working illegally in a country. That is a daily drain on our resources, not a one off insurance payment.

Well its a general analogy - not pretending its anything more than that.

what? You asked how so & I replied showing 'how so'.....

Laughable.

As I said - I'm not going to inject any more anger and vitriol into this thread than there is already, so I'd suggest parking the attitude to keep this on a civil footing.

Whether you want to accept it or not - there are similarities in that analogy as LAL also expounded on.

As I see it people are angry at the migrants because of the govts inability/unwillingness to do diddly squat about the problem. In the meantime you have people living in poverty on the other side of the border who have, for whatever reason decided that their immediate needs supersede considerations of immigration law. That is that reality - regardless of whether you want to wag your finger in the face of a person for being "immoral", or lacking "personal responsibility".

[♥JP♥ 5]

Historically, the terrorists that have been successful have had no previous connection with terrorist organisations.

It's also sadly true that terrorists don't all live in the middle east.

I never said they all lived in the Middle East, I gave that as an example. Have you ever crossed the border from Mexico to California by walking or by car?

[no name 1]

This is one step away from rationalizing (justifying?) (legalizing?) stealing because you're poor and hungry.

and robbing a bank because you don't have any cash.

Why take responsibilty when it's so much easier to blame the govt, not yourself! That seems to be the ongoing justification here.

If you don't want neighborhood kids stealing your car, you lock your car and take the keys in the house! But by all means, claim that you have the right to leave your keys in an unlocked car and have it be there in the morning.

Nice try. Apples & oranges.

How so? Just because you say so - seems to be a perfectly valid analogy to me.

Blaming the guy for stealing your car when you were negligent about its security is not that far removed from blaming the migrant worker for seeing to his economic needs as a result of decades worth of negligent/non-existent border security.

Stealing a car is nothing like living & working illegally in a country. That is a daily drain on our resources, not a one off insurance payment.

Well its a general analogy - not pretending its anything more than that.

what? You asked how so & I replied showing 'how so'.....

Laughable.

As I said - I'm not going to inject any more anger and vitriol into this thread than there is already, so I'd suggest parking the attitude to keep this on a civil footing.

Whether you want to accept it or not - there are similarities in that analogy as LAL also expounded on.

As I see it people are angry at the migrants because of the govts inability/unwillingness to do diddly squat about the problem. In the meantime you have people living in poverty on the other side of the border who have, for whatever reason decided that their immediate needs supersede considerations of immigration law. That is that reality - regardless of whether you want to wag your finger in the face of a person for being "immoral", or lacking "personal responsibility".

And that reality is lacking personal responisibilty.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Let's see, I am a terrorist, I can apply for a visa to come to the US legally and attract no attention to myself or, I can take the risk of crossing the border illegally and getting caught? Hmmm, interesting choice isn't it?

You think its that easy to get a visa from those parts of the world????

Not if you have a passport from a country that receives a Visa Waiver.

[♥JP♥ 5]

Historically, the terrorists that have been successful have had no previous connection with terrorist organisations.

It's also sadly true that terrorists don't all live in the middle east.

Where did anyone say thay would cross ILLEGALLY?

The person who is arguing that a wall would increase security against terrorism.

Do you know for a fact that it could not?