B1/B2 Visa

[Satellite 1]

Obviously their relationship has become more than just boyfriend/girlfriend.

Wow, how would you know such a detail? Were you spying on them?

[Fettman 0]

Obviously their relationship has become more than just boyfriend/girlfriend.

Wow, how would you know such a detail? Were you spying on them?

Look out your window...I'll wave...

After reading through all the responses I understand the whole intent and legality behind the situation. Nothing official has been said to anyone. My concern is with the whole process after the fact. If for some reason she comes her and while she is here I decide to ask her to marry me and then she stays beyond her allotted time it seems to me that could cause trouble with the whole AOS, Social Security, getting work documents process. I would in some ways prefer to go through the whole K-1 process if it would mean things would be easier on that end. I think both of us would like for her to be able to start working and leave the country again in a timely manner rather than waiting for some time. This whole thing came totally as a surprise to both of us. I did not expect for her to be invited to America for an interview, nor get a multiple entry B1/B2 visa.

So, two questions. One, how much more "riskier" is it for me to make the marriage decision once she is here on the B1/B2 visa than if I asked her to marry me now and go through the K-1 process? Two, if I did decide to apply for the K-1, she can still come here on the B1/B2 visa if I arrange for an invitation and she proves that she has sufficient ties to Russa correct? I was already prepared to pay all the fees and she is already prepared to do all the stuff on her end, so really going the K-1 route is not too much for us to handle. We understand the wait times and that is why we decided that it would be a good idea for her to apply for a job in Russia to pay her bills while I save money for us. However, if for some reason we decided not to make up our minds about marriage until she was here on a B1/B2 and the process after we got married was as "painless" as the K-1 then why not go for it?

I appreciate all the feedback and advice. I want to work the system for my benefit rather than the system trying to benefit off of me. Thanks!

[russ 1]

So, two questions. One, how much more "riskier" is it for me to make the marriage decision once she is here on the B1/B2 visa than if I asked her to marry me now and go through the K-1 process? Two, if I did decide to apply for the K-1, she can still come here on the B1/B2 visa if I arrange for an invitation and she proves that she has sufficient ties to Russa correct? I was already prepared to pay all the fees and she is already prepared to do all the stuff on her end, so really going the K-1 route is not too much for us to handle. We understand the wait times and that is why we decided that it would be a good idea for her to apply for a job in Russia to pay her bills while I save money for us. However, if for some reason we decided not to make up our minds about marriage until she was here on a B1/B2 and the process after we got married was as "painless" as the K-1 then why not go for it?

I appreciate all the feedback and advice. I want to work the system for my benefit rather than the system trying to benefit off of me. Thanks!

To stay away from TOS issues, I will put it this way. Hypothetically, should someone legally admitted to the US marry and submit an AOS, it is as likely to be approved as a K1. Procedurely, it raises a red flag with USCIS if such a marriage occurs less than 30 days after entry into the country, but otherwise, it does not screw anything up. As long as an AOS is pending, there is no problem obtaining SS or EADs or anything else.

Intending to get married on a non-marriage visa is, of course, against the rules.

I would suggest spending about $100 to speak with an immigration lawyer for an hour or so. Prepare your questions in advance.

[Satellite 1]

Addition:

1. If you file for AOS based on marriage to a US citizen all previous overstays and unlawful work will be forgiven. So don't worry about taking time to get married even if she is out of status.

2. When you apply for AOS you instantly get authorized stay by the Attorney General.

3. Biggest draw back to getting AOS from B1/B2 visa is that you can't travel abroad until you get the card. Too risky to try AP in such situations. Not a big deal if you want to work and travel in the US for a year or two.

4. Once you apply for that I-129F your fiancée will face great difficulty upon entering, no matter what letters you write. Even the European folks who have high paying jobs and real property in their home countries get turned around once that pending I-129F is in the system.

5. Going straight to AOS will save you money and time in the long run, however, only if you admit to doing something illegal will it end up costing you more in legal fees.

6. Statistically more people Adjust status from other visas rather than K1/K3 visas.

[russ 1]

6. Statistically more people Adjust status from other visas rather than K1/K3 visas.

Everything Sat said is correct.

An important consideration though - if your wife overstays and you don't marry, you will be screwing her life up. I would suspect that one reason your wifes interview is in the US is that they want to make sure she can travel here freely. A visa overstay will likely cost her career. If she gets this job, try to get them to employ her here and go the K3 route.

Drug company MBAs do okay, she could end up making more money than you in the next few years. I would make the job priority number one. It may make the K visa issue moot, if she can get herself a transfer to the US. Having a 150K+ a year job in the US puts her way ahead of most of us.

She will probably get the B1, as she has more to lose by overstaying in the US.

[Satellite 1]

A visa overstay will likely cost her career. If she gets this job, try to get them to employ her here and go the K3 route.

Obviously applying for another with a previous overstay doesn't help, but the real punishment begins after 180 day overstay with a 3 year bar on entry and a 10 year bar for a one year or more overstay. There are hardship waivers to USC's to get around this but they take a long time to grand and seldom granted.

She will probably get the B1, as she has more to lose by overstaying in the US.

Unlike B2 visas which immigration officers tend to blindly grant 6 months of status in the US. B1's I-94's tend to represent exactly how long the stay will be. This is based on the word of many practitioners in this field.

[russ 1]

Obviously applying for another with a previous overstay doesn't help, but the real punishment begins after 180 day overstay with a 3 year bar on entry and a 10 year bar for a one year or more overstay. There are hardship waivers to USC's to get around this but they take a long time to grand and seldom granted.

The failure to show up at work will cause problems as well. Probably better off going the K route for this reason.

[Fettman 0]

Obviously applying for another with a previous overstay doesn't help, but the real punishment begins after 180 day overstay with a 3 year bar on entry and a 10 year bar for a one year or more overstay. There are hardship waivers to USC's to get around this but they take a long time to grand and seldom granted.

The failure to show up at work will cause problems as well. Probably better off going the K route for this reason.

Thanks for all the advice Russ and Sat, basically here is how I see things happening for the two of us based on different visa routes:

K-1

I apply for the K-1 soon after her interview next week. If she gets the job, great, but she only wanted to use it temporarily in Russia until she was able to come here and marry me if we so decided to get married. She does not want to work for J&J long term, she just knows that she will get a better salary with them in Russia than just waiting tables, etc. In the US she would like not to work for a bit and then search for a job she wants, to work for a non-profit or NGO. So, the job point a not one we are concerned with right now. She was going to quit J&J in any case. So, she would work for them until the K-1 was approved, quit her job and then come here, and then we would go through the whole AOS and onward process.

B1/B2

We would wait and see what happened with the job and if she was offered one, great, but we would find an excuse for her to come here again and before she did that she would quit her job and then come her, we would wait the 30 days or so, and then get married. Then we would have the whole AOS and onward process.

I see that the risks involved are not too great, intent is a hard thing to prove to in any case since she is technically not my fiancee yet. However, I think both of us have set up the next 6 months or so getting prepared to get married, I need to move into my own place, she needs to be able to pack up her stuff and decide what to take with her, work on getting a visa for her mom to come to the wedding, etc. I have the money set aside already, so I think in the end we will both feel more comfortable taking the K-1 route. We would both really like to be able to go to Russia within a year of our marriage so she can visit family and friends. Sat answered the biggest question I had about being able to use the visa to come while the I-129F is under review. However, if the process from AOS onward is the same for both then it is an option to consider. However, I think J&J will look more favorably on her if she stays 6 months and the says that she is going to America and will be interested in working with them there, as a back up if she cannot find a job she wants. Just alot for me to balance out and discuss more with her. However, when the waiting and money are not an issue for us I think we would prefer to play it "legal" with the K-1.

Thanks again!

[russ 1]

I hate to be a wet blanket. I really do. But your last post sounds a lot like you've already made up your mind about marrying this girl. If you intend to marry in the United States, she will be entering fraudulently on the B1/B2. There's no such thing as "technically" being your fiance. If you have intent then that's all that matters, and it sounds like you have intent

It is her intent that matters here, not his. There is no B visa now, so this discussion is purely academic anyway. I would suggest she consult with an immigration lawyer in the US to discus options anyway - comments here are not legal advice.

[russ 1]

As the saying goes, it takes 2 to tango. Somehow I don't think this whole marriage thing is going to be news to her.

I don't think the law cares on this point. She could meet and marry someone else entirely once here. There could be dozens of people that want to marry you (for purpose of argument, let's say you are a famous model with lots of admirers). What other people want or intend isn't relevant.

Most normal people talk about marriage for years before actually deciding to do so (or not in many cases). Says nothing about intent. Also, the assumptions made by USCIS are not the law, just the guidelines they use. What would actually happen in court with an immigration judge is often a different thing.

Sat, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe even if you intend to get married in the US at the time of entry, you aren't breaking the law. Intending to adjust status (having immigrant intent) is the key here.

Or lets say you are already married and visit the US on a B visa. (This is a common situation for American expats). If you intend to adjust status when you arrive, you are breaking the rules. If you decide not to return home after vacationing for a few months, you are probably not.

[Fettman 0]

I don't think the law cares on this point. She could meet and marry someone else entirely once here. There could be dozens of people that want to marry you (for purpose of argument, let's say you are a famous model with lots of admirers). What other people want or intend isn't relevant.

Let's not split hairs here, because the USCIS sure isn't going to. What we're talking about is the intent for this specific woman to marry this specific man. IF she is entering the country with immigrant intention--and let's face it, if they've already decided to marry then she's already decided to immigrate--then she is entering fraudulently on the B1/B2, even if she also happens to be entering on her Visa for the stated reason.

Most normal people talk about marriage for years before actually deciding to do so (or not in many cases). Says nothing about intent. Also, the assumptions made by USCIS are not the law, just the guidelines they use. What would actually happen in court with an immigration judge is often a different thing.

Which is why I am suggesting that IF there is intent to marry (and it sounds to me like there is) the K-1 is the better--no, ONLY--way to go. It removes all doubt, and you don't have to hinge your future on what a court decides.

Sat, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe even if you intend to get married in the US at the time of entry, you aren't breaking the law. Intending to adjust status (having immigrant intent) is the key here.

Assuming you are correct, let's be realistic. Someone who is entering the United States with the intent to marry is about 99% likely to have immigrant intent. And in this specific example, it would be more like 100%.

Or lets say you are already married and visit the US on a B visa. (This is a common situation for American expats). If you intend to adjust status when you arrive, you are breaking the rules. If you decide not to return home after vacationing for a few months, you are probably not.

But that's not what this specific case is about. This specific case is about an unmarried couple who SEEM to be trying to make a decision as to the best way to go about getting married in the United States. If that is indeed the case, then the K-1 (or K-3 if he wants to travel) is the best way to ensure that there aren't problems later that could potentially ruin at least one of their lives.

And again, I apologize to the OP if I'm wrong about this. It seems that the OP wants to use technicalities like not being "technically" engaged as some sort of plausible deniability in case things turn south. I just think that's a bad way to go.

I am more in agreement with you about the K-1 issue. My original question was asked out of total ignorance. In fact I was more interested to see if she could just come here to visit while the K-1 was being processed. The answer to that was pretty much no, even with an existing visa (if I understood Sat right). I have no desire to risk our futures to make something easier or because it is cheaper. However, I am not going to be the "good boy" and do the right thing just because it is the right thing. The government makes nothing easy for most of us and some of that for good reason, but other times not so much. In the end I do not want to have to worry that some evidence or something will come up "proving" that we committed fraud. Plus, I would like her to be able to go visit her family and such as soon as she can. As I said before we both more prepared for the K-1 visa than for some sort of crazy system of trying to use a loophole. She needs time in Russia to prepare to move her and I need time here to prepare for her arrive.

Yes, I am looking for the "best deal" to get out of the system. I do hope you are coming down on me like this because you are a genuinely nice person and not because you like to judge people. I came asking a question, options were offered and I explored all sides of the matter before coming to a decision. I appreciate the frankness from everyone on their thoughts and ideas. For now, I think the K-1 visa is the "best deal". I believe all of life should be about minimizing risks, but at the same time I weigh them to make decisions. I still believe they would have a hard time proving intent, but in this case why tempt fate just so I can save a few hundred bucks. And when it comes to technicalities I believe many people get caught and released on them. I am sure we all "technically" break the law everyday.

I have no hard feelings toward anyone (looks at Moxcamel ) I truly appreciate the honest feedback. I understand this is not legal advice and I would hardly take what is said here to be the same as what an immigration lawyer can tell me. So, with that issue out of the way I suppose her chances of being able to visit me are slim to none after I have submitted my application?

Plus I wanted to be able to propose to her in Vienna in two weeks . I have to take advantage of such things

[Fettman 0]

Yes, I am looking for the "best deal" to get out of the system. I do hope you are coming down on me like this because you are a genuinely nice person and not because you like to judge people.

I hope I didn't sound like I was "coming down" on you. I just think you're entitled to hear the blunt and honest truth, which is sometimes (often?) different than the things we want to hear. I'm definitely not judging you. Just calling it as I see it.

Plus I wanted to be able to propose to her in Vienna in two weeks . I have to take advantage of such things

Not to beat a dead horse, but this pretty much seals it for you that the K-1 or K-3 is the only way to go.

Best of luck to you, I wish you both well! Do stick around and keep us all up to date on your progress. This is a very supportive community, and you'll want all the support you can get.

*insert some contrary statement about technicalities and intent*

I was not looking to hear anything really except what my options are. As I said, I have resigned myself to the K-1 process a while ago and in fact have it all ready to go, just have to wait until after her interview.

*kicks the dead horse a few more time*

If someone wants to put a few more bullets in its head be my guest

I plan on sticking around at least until everything is said and done. So far most of the people I have met here have been really nice and informative, except for that Moxcamel person

[Satellite 1]

Sat, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe even if you intend to get married in the US at the time of entry, you aren't breaking the law. Intending to adjust status (having immigrant intent) is the key here.

You are correct. In theory, some people use a B2 visa to marry in the US and then the US spouse returns abroad! Later that same couple again come to the US to visit. Mostly a European thing involving Americans living abroad.

As for coming here on B visa while the I-129F is pending simply requires luck and extra proof of intent to return to Russia. Being denied doesn't cost you anything unless you lie once interrogated by the POE, if it even comes to that. However, you do lose out an a plane ticket if you are sent home and you can be detained for many hours. Otherwise it won't really hurt your pending K1 visa.

[Fettman 0]

Sat, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe even if you intend to get married in the US at the time of entry, you aren't breaking the law. Intending to adjust status (having immigrant intent) is the key here.

You are correct. In theory, some people use a B2 visa to marry in the US and then the US spouse returns abroad! Later that same couple again come to the US to visit. Mostly a European thing involving Americans living abroad.

As for coming here on B visa while the I-129F is pending simply requires luck and extra proof of intent to return to Russia. Being denied doesn't cost you anything unless you lie once interrogated by the POE, if it even comes to that. However, you do lose out an a plane ticket if you are sent home and you can be detained for many hours. Otherwise it won't really hurt your pending K1 visa.

Well, we are thinking now to postpone apply for the K-1 so she can visit in January, meet my folks and see some of my America. (Orlando is hardly the same as Virginia). Now that she has the visa does she have to show an invitation or something when she arrives? I guess I am in the dark about what the POE will require from her, if anything. Any advice about that would be appreciated.

[Satellite 1]

Now that she has the visa does she have to show an invitation or something when she arrives? I guess I am in the dark about what the POE will require from her, if anything. Any advice about that would be appreciated.

Have her bring everything pertaining to the job interview. That is usually more than enough. Have her NOT mention you or any of her plans after the interview if any. Find out how much it costs to change tickets. If they ask to see return tickets, it will be wise that when she says she is returning right after the interview that her tickets say the same thing. Once you are in you can do so many things here. For example file for extension of status. Change to another non-immigrant status, change to immigrant status, appeal if necessary. File for asylum if necessary, Jewish folks, political folks against Putin, and other non-main stream believers are again being granted! And all of this is done while you are here in the US. It's a great system once you are in the door. Others will also recommend she bring some documents showing she is wanted back at her school, home, and has commitments she'd want to return to. Keep in mind most of this might not be necessary at all. Depends on the POE officer you get.