Oklahoma targets illegal immigrants with tough new law

[DeadPoolX 9]

Exactly! Illegal is illegal. Why should being here longer make it okay? If a burglar breaks into someone's summer cottage and spends the whole winter there, does that make him less guilty than if he just grabbed the goods and left?

Good point. It would be like a thief saying "well I have broken into the same house for 10 years now so technically I should be allowed to live there.."

Not exactly your point - but there is such a thing as squatters rights...

There's no such thing as "squatter's rights" when someone is talking about home ownership. There are many different options for owning a home, but none of these legal methods include just parking yourself in somebody's house or apartment for a period of time and calling it your own. If you do enter someone's home without their permission, it's illegal -- regardless of whether or not you intend to stay. So "squatter's rights" is completely invalid here.

As far as referring to living on a piece of land or within a country (or state/province or city), modern laws and industrialization invalidate the whole 19th century notion of "squatter's rights." Those ideals may have held during the time period in which men and women climbed into ox-pulled wagon trains, going west, in order to claim land and seek fortune, but those days are long gone. That land wasn't legally claimed, so anyone living on it at the time could argue that they possessed it by virtue of merely existing there.

The whole point is that, within the U.S. (and any other country), there is a legal framework set up to do things the "right way" as according to the laws. Those who are choosing to break these laws must face the consequences.

[no name 1]

I didn't know my husband was out of status until the week before we got married.

And at that point, I didn't really care. (And no, he never lied to me, I just never asked. I didn't care.)

Sure glad we don't live in Oklahoma. Because it seems like this is going to affect legal immigrants in a bad way, too.

Well right now, the mantra is:

"The Tulsa County Sheriff's Office says the only Hispanic people who need to worry about being deported are the ones who are here illegally and are caught committing a crime." (as quoted from the kotv website)

I'm still carrying around all my paperwork everywhere I go.

That's an issue you have ... you really should care. I care very much about my wife's status ... and the location of her documentation ... and copies.

Thanks for the smartass remark, but as you can see, I said I didn't know until the week before we got married. Obviously I know now, and since we paid a couple thousand dollars to get his status fixed, obviously I care now. Nice job reading.

Not that knowing his legal status when I met him would have changed the way I felt about him.

Point is, if I was dumb enough to live in OK (thank God I'm not) now I'd be in trouble for moving in with my boyfriend because they'd just assume I knew.

And just because OK passes this doesn't mean other states will follow ... look at the NYS governor who wants to loosen the restrictions on driver's licenses, making it easier for an illegal to get a NYS driver's license.

Not cool, AT ALL.

----

THat's a damn big thing NOT to know before you get married, esp a week out.

Psh, why?

I knew we'd have to do AOS, regardless of whether he was out of status or in status. So we did, and were approved in less than 2 months.

Not really a big problem.

And maybe it's not cool...but it's not somewhere I'd ever want to live So oh well. Sorry if I offended but I can't take it back.

Sorry dev...you know I love you buttt it's just how I feel.

Because you were a week way from committing your life to someone - and he held back some damn important & potentially damaging info. Things that could have affected your life.

Edited November 5, 2007 by devilette

[peejay 327]

I don't want illegals to have amnesty, I want the FEDERAL government to do their job. I'm not saying there shouldn't be any laws against illegals, I don't think they should get public assistance, driver's licenses, any of that. But every step my husband takes he shouldn't have to prove himself, and I as a US citizen shouldn't have to prove myself - being dark skinned he gets stopped by police all the time, so what next? They cart me off the county jail because I have an ethnic name?

Pfft.

People have a bad habit of blowing things way out of proportion from how things really are. This is not the second coming of the Gestapo or the KGB.

Sure this law will impact Hispanics more than any one group because 80%+ of illegal aliens in America are Hispanic. That's a fact whether people want to accept it or not. Reality is reality. The law will not specifically target Hispanics because that is illegal in itself. It will target illegal aliens. But since most illegal aliens are Hispanic, that is who will get nailed in far greater numbers than any other group by far.

This is just another tool by law enforcement that is to be used to enforce the law within guidelines of the law. The race card some want to throw out is a smokescreen. Just like enforcement of any other law...there has to be probable cause and racial profiling is not probable cause. Cops know what they can or cannot do to enforce the laws legally within set guidelines. Otherwise they run afoul of the law themselves.

[Caladan 19]

Maybe meow mix's husband should have told her sooner. That's really neither here nor there, except if you're in the aspersions casting game; immigration status isn't usually something that comes up when dating and given the general ignorance (C.'s a citizen now, right?) people have until they actually go through the process, I don't think it says much of anything interesting. He may not have mentioned it because he didn't think it was a big deal (as it turns out, he was exactly right.)

The question is do you think it would be right for her to be considered a felon, with all the fun and games that entails? If not, why not?

peejay, it seems your argument boils down to 'Yeah, Hispanics will be harassed, but so what, I'm not Hispanic and neither is anyone I care about, so it's a good law.'

[natty bumppo 297]

I didn't know my husband was out of status until the week before we got married.

And at that point, I didn't really care. (And no, he never lied to me, I just never asked. I didn't care.)

Sure glad we don't live in Oklahoma. Because it seems like this is going to affect legal immigrants in a bad way, too.

Well right now, the mantra is:

"The Tulsa County Sheriff's Office says the only Hispanic people who need to worry about being deported are the ones who are here illegally and are caught committing a crime." (as quoted from the kotv website)

I'm still carrying around all my paperwork everywhere I go.

That's an issue you have ... you really should care. I care very much about my wife's status ... and the location of her documentation ... and copies.

Thanks for the smartass remark, but as you can see, I said I didn't know until the week before we got married. Obviously I know now, and since we paid a couple thousand dollars to get his status fixed, obviously I care now. Nice job reading.

Not that knowing his legal status when I met him would have changed the way I felt about him.

Point is, if I was dumb enough to live in OK (thank God I'm not) now I'd be in trouble for moving in with my boyfriend because they'd just assume I knew.

And just because OK passes this doesn't mean other states will follow ... look at the NYS governor who wants to loosen the restrictions on driver's licenses, making it easier for an illegal to get a NYS driver's license.

Sorry, I was not trying to be a … your word … “smartass”. I was simply stating that it was your individual situation … and I (and probably others) took a different path in learning about the status of our spouse sooner than a week prior to marriage.

With all the Visa/ Immigration issues involved in being together legally in the US, the topic was very much on our minds. Even the discussion of Visa options (K-1, K-3, CR-1) were reviewed in detail before deciding to get married in Brazil. We wanted to keep the surprises from the USCIS and NVC to a minimum as we knew it could happen.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Exactly! Illegal is illegal. Why should being here longer make it okay? If a burglar breaks into someone's summer cottage and spends the whole winter there, does that make him less guilty than if he just grabbed the goods and left?

Good point. It would be like a thief saying "well I have broken into the same house for 10 years now so technically I should be allowed to live there.."

Not exactly your point - but there is such a thing as squatters rights...

There's no such thing as "squatter's rights" when someone is talking about home ownership. There are many different options for owning a home, but none of these legal methods include just parking yourself in somebody's house or apartment for a period of time and calling it your own. If you do enter someone's home without their permission, it's illegal -- regardless of whether or not you intend to stay. So "squatter's rights" is completely invalid here.

As far as referring to living on a piece of land or within a country (or state/province or city), modern laws and industrialization invalidate the whole 19th century notion of "squatter's rights." Those ideals may have held during the time period in which men and women climbed into ox-pulled wagon trains, going west, in order to claim land and seek fortune, but those days are long gone. That land wasn't legally claimed, so anyone living on it at the time could argue that they possessed it by virtue of merely existing there.

The whole point is that, within the U.S. (and any other country), there is a legal framework set up to do things the "right way" as according to the laws. Those who are choosing to break these laws must face the consequences.

Sure there is - but when you start to take a detailed look at these things, for example - the many and various ways of paying your income taxes and claiming the various deductions and exemptions - it seems there are many "right ways" to do things depending on your situation and circumstances.

You can, for example - fly to the US without a Fiance Visa, get married and adjust status. Not exactly the conventional way to do it, and of course it carries risks and problems of its own - but still technically within the law, so long as there's no proof of pre-meditated intent.

[pedroh 21]

I don't want illegals to have amnesty, I want the FEDERAL government to do their job. I'm not saying there shouldn't be any laws against illegals, I don't think they should get public assistance, driver's licenses, any of that. But every step my husband takes he shouldn't have to prove himself, and I as a US citizen shouldn't have to prove myself - being dark skinned he gets stopped by police all the time, so what next? They cart me off the county jail because I have an ethnic name?

Pfft.

People have a bad habit of blowing things way out of proportion from how things really are. This is not the second coming of the Gestapo or the KGB.

Sure this law will impact Hispanics more than any one group because 80%+ of illegal aliens in America are Hispanic. That's a fact whether people want to accept it or not. Reality is reality. The law will not specifically target Hispanics because that is illegal in itself. It will target illegal aliens. But since most illegal aliens are Hispanic, that is who will get nailed in far greater numbers than any other group by far.

This is just another tool by law enforcement that is to be used to enforce the law within guidelines of the law. The race card some want to throw out is a smokescreen. Just like enforcement of any other law...there has to be probable cause and racial profiling is not probable cause. Cops know what they can or cannot do to enforce the laws legally within set guidelines. Otherwise they run afoul of the law themselves.

I just don't trust the cops..

[peejay 327]

You can, for example - fly to the US without a Fiance Visa, get married and adjust status. Not exactly the conventional way to do it, and of course it carries risks and problems of its own - but still technically within the law, so long as there's no proof of pre-meditated intent.

But to fly into the USA through a POE you have to have some sort of visa. Whether someone abides by its provisions and limitations is another thing altogether.

[SMOKE 1,426]

ok the federal gov't has done nothing to protect Oklahomas state funded assistance programs, from people that have 0 right for US or the state of Oklahomas assistance. the people of Oklahoma have leaned on our polititions to take action. (yes it is the right of the state to protect its programs). and they have.(a rep. lawmaker pushed it & a dem. gov. signed it into law...they are together on illegal immigration)

they are not going door to door checking papers. they are not singling out any ethnic groups. if you are being interviewed by police (busted,pulled over, witness to a crime..etc.) & do not have a Oklahoma dl or id when asked(in Oklahoma it is the law you get-asap-& carry state id on your person at all times--reguardless of your status) you then need to produce documentation of status (which you are required to carry anyway). (legal immigrant, visa carring visitor, USC, guest worker..etc.) if you do not have your paperwork...then they turn you over to immigration (remember its ICE's job to enforce the law) they will then deport or release people based on their findings.

now the beauty of this law. if you will fully house, transport, employ, or aid illegal immirants it is a felony (same as any felony-no right to vote, no right to bare arms...etc.) & pay a $1000 dollar fine per offense.

remember if you have done nothing you have nothing to fear!

the state of Oklahoma has had enough & has taken action....if you don't like it GTFO!

[pedroh 21]

ok the federal gov't has done nothing to protect Oklahomas state funded assistance programs, from people that have 0 right for US or the state of Oklahomas assistance. the people of Oklahoma have leaned on our polititions to take action. (yes it is the right of the state to protect its programs). and they have.(a rep. lawmaker pushed it & a dem. gov. signed it into law...they are together on illegal immigration)

they are not going door to door checking papers. they are not singling out any ethnic groups. if you are being interviewed by police (busted,pulled over, witness to a crime..etc.) & do not have a Oklahoma dl or id when asked(in Oklahoma it is the law you get-asap-& carry state id on your person at all times--reguardless of your status) you then need to produce documentation of status (which you are required to carry anyway). (legal immigrant, visa carring visitor, USC, guest worker..etc.) if you do not have your paperwork...then they turn you over to immigration (remember its ICE's job to enforce the law) they will then deport or release people based on their findings.

now the beauty of this law. if you will fully house, transport, employ, or aid illegal immirants it is a felony (same as any felony-no right to vote, no right to bare arms...etc.) & pay a $1000 dollar fine per offense.

remember if you have done nothing you have nothing to fear!

the state of Oklahoma has had enough & has taken action....if you don't like it GTFO!

but there's no documentation for USC's.. or for aliens becoming USC's.. how are you gonnna prove you are a USC?

[Peikko 1,575]

I don't like carrying id, never have, never will, so I guess I might get arrested. Tant pis!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You can, for example - fly to the US without a Fiance Visa, get married and adjust status. Not exactly the conventional way to do it, and of course it carries risks and problems of its own - but still technically within the law, so long as there's no proof of pre-meditated intent.

But to fly into the USA through a POE you have to have some sort of visa. Whether someone abides by its provisions and limitations is another thing altogether.

Sure - but given that you can fly in on a visa waiver from a large number of countries that's really moot.

[SMOKE 1,426]

ok the federal gov't has done nothing to protect Oklahomas state funded assistance programs, from people that have 0 right for US or the state of Oklahomas assistance. the people of Oklahoma have leaned on our polititions to take action. (yes it is the right of the state to protect its programs). and they have.(a rep. lawmaker pushed it & a dem. gov. signed it into law...they are together on illegal immigration)

they are not going door to door checking papers. they are not singling out any ethnic groups. if you are being interviewed by police (busted,pulled over, witness to a crime..etc.) & do not have a Oklahoma dl or id when asked(in Oklahoma it is the law you get-asap-& carry state id on your person at all times--reguardless of your status) you then need to produce documentation of status (which you are required to carry anyway). (legal immigrant, visa carring visitor, USC, guest worker..etc.) if you do not have your paperwork...then they turn you over to immigration (remember its ICE's job to enforce the law) they will then deport or release people based on their findings.

now the beauty of this law. if you will fully house, transport, employ, or aid illegal immirants it is a felony (same as any felony-no right to vote, no right to bare arms...etc.) & pay a $1000 dollar fine per offense.

remember if you have done nothing you have nothing to fear!

the state of Oklahoma has had enough & has taken action....if you don't like it GTFO!

but there's no documentation for USC's.. or for aliens becoming USC's.. how are you gonnna prove you are a USC?

you must prove status to get an Oklahoma ID. what doc are given at POE?...visa? if you are traveling thru OK w/ an out of state DL (you know the law...be prepared).

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The idea that I as a U.S. citizen may have to prove my citizenship everytime I'm pulled over by a traffic cop is an infringement on my civil liberties. Not only that, it's making traffic cops in charge of immigration enforcement. Same with holding me prosecutable for my passenger's legal resident status.

Just another half-hearted attempt at trying to resolve a national issue on a local scale...without comprehensive, federal immigration reform, anothing less will be disasterous.

You're missing the boat on this one.

If you have a government issued driver's license from a state that doesn't issue driver's licenses to illegal aliens...then it is already a "given" that you are not an illegal alien. Have you ever refused to show a cop your driver's license when pulled over? Did you tell the cop he was infringing on your civil liberties? How far did that fly?

What is comprehensive immigration reform? Amnesty and a free ride for all the illegal aliens that broke into the USA already to clear the slate for the next 20 million to invade by passing more laws that won't be enforced?

Although I'm rightfully required to prove that I am driving legally in the state, I'm not required to prove to a traffic cop, my citizenship status.

When Jinky arrived here in CA, I looked into the state law requirements and found that she could legally drive here with her license from the PI until she established residency. I can imagine the legal quagmire we could have been potentially in if she had been pulled over by a traffic cop without any proof of legal residency while we were in AOS.

The pure fact that you are a liscensed Driver it is understood thast you had to prove legal residancy to pobtain the DL so of course there would be no question or need to inquire about you rimmigration status.

In the case of my wife, she could legally drive here with a Philippines DL, and could NOT get a license once her I-94 expired. She was at that point, Out of Status, although not here illegally, unable to prove with photo ID her legal status to a traffic cop, but driving with a legally recognized ID (her PI DL).

There is a clear distinction between proving legal ability to drive in a particular state and proving U.S. Citizenship. With the exception of a U.S. Passport, there really is now photo ID that someone can carry to prove legal status and in the case of someone like my wife, who was out of status, from June 1st until she received her Green Card on October 6th, she had no legal ID that a traffic cop could accept as proof that she is here legally.

welcome to the world created by the illegal lovers. reap what you sow.

fortunately my wife and I have chosen a different route ... view my profile and it shows ... it is not the K1. We chose our route for many reasons ... this is one example.

Mr. 2nd Amendment himself...just remember that the next time you complain about gun laws that 'encroach' on your 2nd Amendment rights. We're just trying to go after the criminals after all.

[DeadPoolX 9]

I don't like carrying id, never have, never will, so I guess I might get arrested. Tant pis!

So... you don't carry your driver's license on you? That's a state-issued form of identification.