Oklahoma targets illegal immigrants with tough new law

[natty bumppo 297]

More states should conduct routine Check points for prrof of Dl & Insurnace

Are you advocating that police just stop people to check if they have a valid license regardless of whether they have broken another law or not? Just asking if that's your position. That would get up people's noses by the way, not just the noses of illegal immigrants.

Were you walking or driving ?

I was driving to go hiking...I know, an oxymoron.

no .. that's what many of us need to do ... not a problem

you got lucky ... someone was nice and there was not a $$$$ quota to fill for the local coffers. Or ... you provided enough info that he could run the check.

It happens this way. Just watch at month end ... or fiscal end for radar traps ... nuff said?

[natty bumppo 297]

More states should conduct routine Check points for prrof of Dl & Insurnace

Are you advocating that police just stop people to check if they have a valid license regardless of whether they have broken another law or not? Just asking if that's your position. That would get up people's noses by the way, not just the noses of illegal immigrants.

Were you walking or driving ?

I was driving to go hiking...I know, an oxymoron.

who is advocating a random stop? The OK law provides a requirement for a reason in asking for ID.

[natty bumppo 297]

I was hoping that you'd see the parallels between what you have expressed as an encroachment of your 2nd Amendment rights with gun laws and requiring motorists to provide proof of citizenship to a traffic cop if they are pulled over. This is on topic because it is essentially part of the same, larger issue ...our civil liberties, which aren't exclusive to the 2nd Amendment. If you only stood by the rest of the Amendments as fervently as you do the 2nd Amdendment, we'd both be on the same side of the argument.

We are talking about a Privilege (driving) ... not a Right (2nd Amendment)

Apples and Oranges

Now ...

Proof of citizenship … or proof of legal presence (status). Which is it?

Oh btw ... don't LEOs check for Wants & Warrants when you are stopped for traffic violations?

(I think you have a good source for answering this question ... please ask ... I'd like to know.)

Oye, try to follow the logic. I am a U.S. Citizen. I am also legally licensed to drive in my state. If I get pulled over by a traffic cop, I'm not required to prove my citizenship to that cop. All I'm required to do is show him that I'm legally licensed to drive. My citizenship status has diddley squat to do with my legal ability to drive in this state - according to the DMV. If I'm visiting from another country and legally licensed there, I can legally drive here. In the case of my wife, from the time she was out of status (AOS process) until she received her Green Card, she had no legal proof that she was here legally. We had our marriage license and her NOA1 but really, she was in effect, out of status. She could have been later denied AOS.

As stated several times throughout this thread that we have to be careful that we're not creating laws and a bureaucracy that would further complicate our own immigration or infringe on our civil liberties as legal residents.

These laws will be thrown out as unconstitutional and they should be.

and your ... I'm guessing CA DL required something to prove you were eligable ? (I hope so ...)

Your DL may be the solution ... so whats the problem ?

Citizenship ... or legal status ... what is the issue ???

Here is the link ... I won't post it all because .... well you should know this ...

CA Requirements

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I was hoping that you'd see the parallels between what you have expressed as an encroachment of your 2nd Amendment rights with gun laws and requiring motorists to provide proof of citizenship to a traffic cop if they are pulled over. This is on topic because it is essentially part of the same, larger issue ...our civil liberties, which aren't exclusive to the 2nd Amendment. If you only stood by the rest of the Amendments as fervently as you do the 2nd Amdendment, we'd both be on the same side of the argument.

We are talking about a Privilege (driving) ... not a Right (2nd Amendment)

Apples and Oranges

Now ...

Proof of citizenship … or proof of legal presence (status). Which is it?

Oh btw ... don't LEOs check for Wants & Warrants when you are stopped for traffic violations?

(I think you have a good source for answering this question ... please ask ... I'd like to know.)

Oye, try to follow the logic. I am a U.S. Citizen. I am also legally licensed to drive in my state. If I get pulled over by a traffic cop, I'm not required to prove my citizenship to that cop. All I'm required to do is show him that I'm legally licensed to drive. My citizenship status has diddley squat to do with my legal ability to drive in this state - according to the DMV. If I'm visiting from another country and legally licensed there, I can legally drive here. In the case of my wife, from the time she was out of status (AOS process) until she received her Green Card, she had no legal proof that she was here legally. We had our marriage license and her NOA1 but really, she was in effect, out of status. She could have been later denied AOS.

As stated several times throughout this thread that we have to be careful that we're not creating laws and a bureaucracy that would further complicate our own immigration or infringe on our civil liberties as legal residents.

These laws will be thrown out as unconstitutional and they should be.

and your ... I'm guessing CA DL required something to prove you were eligable ? (I hope so ...)

Your DL may be the solution ... so whats the problem ?

Citizenship ... or legal status ... what is the issue ???

Here is the link ... I won't post it all because .... well you should know this ...

CA Requirements

The situation I've demonstrated - my wife being out of status but driving within the legal confines of California law using her Philippines DL. It doesn't take that much foresight to see the potential legal problems both my wife and I could be in if we were driving within the state of OK. Her resident status has nothing to do with whether she can drive here legally.

If you are a visitor in California over 18 and have a valid driver license from your home state or country, you may drive in this state without getting a California driver license as long as your home state license remains valid.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm

[natty bumppo 297]

Oye, try to follow the logic. I am a U.S. Citizen. I am also legally licensed to drive in my state. If I get pulled over by a traffic cop, I'm not required to prove my citizenship to that cop. All I'm required to do is show him that I'm legally licensed to drive. My citizenship status has diddley squat to do with my legal ability to drive in this state - according to the DMV. If I'm visiting from another country and legally licensed there, I can legally drive here. In the case of my wife, from the time she was out of status (AOS process) until she received her Green Card, she had no legal proof that she was here legally. We had our marriage license and her NOA1 but really, she was in effect, out of status. She could have been later denied AOS.

As stated several times throughout this thread that we have to be careful that we're not creating laws and a bureaucracy that would further complicate our own immigration or infringe on our civil liberties as legal residents.

These laws will be thrown out as unconstitutional and they should be.

and your ... I'm guessing CA DL required something to prove you were eligable ? (I hope so ...)

Your DL may be the solution ... so whats the problem ?

Citizenship ... or legal status ... what is the issue ???

Here is the link ... I won't post it all because .... well you should know this ...

CA Requirements

The situation I've demonstrated - my wife being out of status but driving within the legal confines of California law using her Philippines DL. It doesn't take that much foresight to see the potential legal problems both my wife and I could be in if we were driving within the state of OK. Her resident status has nothing to do with whether she can drive here legally.

If you are a visitor in California over 18 and have a valid driver license from your home state or country, you may drive in this state without getting a California driver license as long as your home state license remains valid.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm

She took up residence ... she moved here ... yes ??

"If you take a job here or become a resident, you must get a California driver license within 10 days. Residency is established by voting in a California election, paying resident tuition, filing for a homeowner's property tax exemption, or any other privilege or benefit not ordinarily extended to nonresidents."

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm

fwiw: this is yet another reason we chose a different path

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Oye, try to follow the logic. I am a U.S. Citizen. I am also legally licensed to drive in my state. If I get pulled over by a traffic cop, I'm not required to prove my citizenship to that cop. All I'm required to do is show him that I'm legally licensed to drive. My citizenship status has diddley squat to do with my legal ability to drive in this state - according to the DMV. If I'm visiting from another country and legally licensed there, I can legally drive here. In the case of my wife, from the time she was out of status (AOS process) until she received her Green Card, she had no legal proof that she was here legally. We had our marriage license and her NOA1 but really, she was in effect, out of status. She could have been later denied AOS.

As stated several times throughout this thread that we have to be careful that we're not creating laws and a bureaucracy that would further complicate our own immigration or infringe on our civil liberties as legal residents.

These laws will be thrown out as unconstitutional and they should be.

and your ... I'm guessing CA DL required something to prove you were eligable ? (I hope so ...)

Your DL may be the solution ... so whats the problem ?

Citizenship ... or legal status ... what is the issue ???

Here is the link ... I won't post it all because .... well you should know this ...

CA Requirements

The situation I've demonstrated - my wife being out of status but driving within the legal confines of California law using her Philippines DL. It doesn't take that much foresight to see the potential legal problems both my wife and I could be in if we were driving within the state of OK. Her resident status has nothing to do with whether she can drive here legally.

If you are a visitor in California over 18 and have a valid driver license from your home state or country, you may drive in this state without getting a California driver license as long as your home state license remains valid.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm

She took up residence ... she moved here ... yes ??

"If you take a job here or become a resident, you must get a California driver license within 10 days. Residency is established by voting in a California election, paying resident tuition, filing for a homeowner's property tax exemption, or any other privilege or benefit not ordinarily extended to nonresidents."

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm

fwiw: this is yet another reason we chose a different path

On the contrary...her state of residency doesn't count until the day she was approved for legal residency. She cannot attend school (without paying out of state tuition) until a year from her approval date.

[natty bumppo 297]

Oye, try to follow the logic. I am a U.S. Citizen. I am also legally licensed to drive in my state. If I get pulled over by a traffic cop, I'm not required to prove my citizenship to that cop. All I'm required to do is show him that I'm legally licensed to drive. My citizenship status has diddley squat to do with my legal ability to drive in this state - according to the DMV. If I'm visiting from another country and legally licensed there, I can legally drive here. In the case of my wife, from the time she was out of status (AOS process) until she received her Green Card, she had no legal proof that she was here legally. We had our marriage license and her NOA1 but really, she was in effect, out of status. She could have been later denied AOS.

As stated several times throughout this thread that we have to be careful that we're not creating laws and a bureaucracy that would further complicate our own immigration or infringe on our civil liberties as legal residents.

These laws will be thrown out as unconstitutional and they should be.

and your ... I'm guessing CA DL required something to prove you were eligable ? (I hope so ...)

Your DL may be the solution ... so whats the problem ?

Citizenship ... or legal status ... what is the issue ???

Here is the link ... I won't post it all because .... well you should know this ...

CA Requirements

The situation I've demonstrated - my wife being out of status but driving within the legal confines of California law using her Philippines DL. It doesn't take that much foresight to see the potential legal problems both my wife and I could be in if we were driving within the state of OK. Her resident status has nothing to do with whether she can drive here legally.

If you are a visitor in California over 18 and have a valid driver license from your home state or country, you may drive in this state without getting a California driver license as long as your home state license remains valid.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm

She took up residence ... she moved here ... yes ??

"If you take a job here or become a resident, you must get a California driver license within 10 days. Residency is established by voting in a California election, paying resident tuition, filing for a homeowner's property tax exemption, or any other privilege or benefit not ordinarily extended to nonresidents."

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm

fwiw: this is yet another reason we chose a different path

On the contrary...her state of residency doesn't count until the day she was approved for legal residency. She cannot attend school (without paying out of state tuition) until a year from her approval date.

Steven .. OMG ... this is embrassing ... have you really experienced out-of-state status for college students with a foreign bride ?? OMG ... it is so clear now ... welcome to reality.

Please don't confuse collegiate schools .... and DL's ... it is not a good form and it will hurt you ... okay ?

Damn .... you threw schools into this ..... and it will hurt people and any other USC with State residency issues.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Oye, try to follow the logic. I am a U.S. Citizen. I am also legally licensed to drive in my state. If I get pulled over by a traffic cop, I'm not required to prove my citizenship to that cop. All I'm required to do is show him that I'm legally licensed to drive. My citizenship status has diddley squat to do with my legal ability to drive in this state - according to the DMV. If I'm visiting from another country and legally licensed there, I can legally drive here. In the case of my wife, from the time she was out of status (AOS process) until she received her Green Card, she had no legal proof that she was here legally. We had our marriage license and her NOA1 but really, she was in effect, out of status. She could have been later denied AOS.

As stated several times throughout this thread that we have to be careful that we're not creating laws and a bureaucracy that would further complicate our own immigration or infringe on our civil liberties as legal residents.

These laws will be thrown out as unconstitutional and they should be.

and your ... I'm guessing CA DL required something to prove you were eligable ? (I hope so ...)

Your DL may be the solution ... so whats the problem ?

Citizenship ... or legal status ... what is the issue ???

Here is the link ... I won't post it all because .... well you should know this ...

CA Requirements

The situation I've demonstrated - my wife being out of status but driving within the legal confines of California law using her Philippines DL. It doesn't take that much foresight to see the potential legal problems both my wife and I could be in if we were driving within the state of OK. Her resident status has nothing to do with whether she can drive here legally.

If you are a visitor in California over 18 and have a valid driver license from your home state or country, you may drive in this state without getting a California driver license as long as your home state license remains valid.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm

She took up residence ... she moved here ... yes ??

"If you take a job here or become a resident, you must get a California driver license within 10 days. Residency is established by voting in a California election, paying resident tuition, filing for a homeowner's property tax exemption, or any other privilege or benefit not ordinarily extended to nonresidents."

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm

fwiw: this is yet another reason we chose a different path

On the contrary...her state of residency doesn't count until the day she was approved for legal residency. She cannot attend school (without paying out of state tuition) until a year from her approval date.

Steven .. OMG ... this is embrassing ... have you really experienced out-of-state status for college students with a foreign bride ?? OMG ... it is so clear now ... welcome to reality.

Please don't confuse collegiate schools .... and DL's ... it is not a good form and it will hurt you ... okay ?

Damn .... you threw schools into this ..... and it will hurt people and any other USC with State residency issues.

No. I looked further into the requirements and definitions of residency for the California DMV...attending school, working, etc. She was not legally residing in the state of CA until her AOS approval, as I understand the definition to be.

[natty bumppo 297]

No. I looked further into the requirements and definitions of residency for the California DMV...attending school, working, etc. She was not legally residing in the state of CA until her AOS approval, as I understand the definition to be.

And it took time for her to be a resident .. yes ?

[natty bumppo 297]

No. I looked further into the requirements and definitions of residency for the California DMV...attending school, working, etc. She was not legally residing in the state of CA until her AOS approval, as I understand the definition to be.

And it took time for her to be a resident .. yes ?

Steven ... it's published ... sorry

About the aother thread with photos ... way cool

Edited November 6, 2007 by Natty Bumppo

[kerewin21 2]

The ACLU is really the ICLU - Illegal Civil Liberties Union. They have yet to move to protect national sovereignty or the distinction between legals and illegals, instead they work to destroy American citizen's rights. They are open borders traitors.

Meanwhile they are working every day to ensure that you have the right to say just that about them and about anybody else you desire with impunity.

[natty bumppo 297]

Oye, try to follow the logic. I am a U.S. Citizen. I am also legally licensed to drive in my state. If I get pulled over by a traffic cop, I'm not required to prove my citizenship to that cop. All I'm required to do is show him that I'm legally licensed to drive. My citizenship status has diddley squat to do with my legal ability to drive in this state - according to the DMV. If I'm visiting from another country and legally licensed there, I can legally drive here. In the case of my wife, from the time she was out of status (AOS process) until she received her Green Card, she had no legal proof that she was here legally. We had our marriage license and her NOA1 but really, she was in effect, out of status. She could have been later denied AOS.

As stated several times throughout this thread that we have to be careful that we're not creating laws and a bureaucracy that would further complicate our own immigration or infringe on our civil liberties as legal residents.

These laws will be thrown out as unconstitutional and they should be.

and your ... I'm guessing CA DL required something to prove you were eligable ? (I hope so ...)

Your DL may be the solution ... so whats the problem ?

Citizenship ... or legal status ... what is the issue ???

Here is the link ... I won't post it all because .... well you should know this ...

CA Requirements

The situation I've demonstrated - my wife being out of status but driving within the legal confines of California law using her Philippines DL. It doesn't take that much foresight to see the potential legal problems both my wife and I could be in if we were driving within the state of OK. Her resident status has nothing to do with whether she can drive here legally.

If you are a visitor in California over 18 and have a valid driver license from your home state or country, you may drive in this state without getting a California driver license as long as your home state license remains valid.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm

She took up residence ... she moved here ... yes ??

"If you take a job here or become a resident, you must get a California driver license within 10 days. Residency is established by voting in a California election, paying resident tuition, filing for a homeowner's property tax exemption, or any other privilege or benefit not ordinarily extended to nonresidents."

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm

fwiw: this is yet another reason we chose a different path

On the contrary...her state of residency doesn't count until the day she was approved for legal residency. She cannot attend school (without paying out of state tuition) until a year from her approval date.

Steven .. OMG ... this is embrassing ... have you really experienced out-of-state status for college students with a foreign bride ?? OMG ... it is so clear now ... welcome to reality.

Please don't confuse collegiate schools .... and DL's ... it is not a good form and it will hurt you ... okay ?

Damn .... you threw schools into this ..... and it will hurt people and any other USC with State residency issues.

No. I looked further into the requirements and definitions of residency for the California DMV...attending school, working, etc. She was not legally residing in the state of CA until her AOS approval, as I understand the definition to be.

Steven ... sorry ... her married to you does not give a free pass on requirements .... the same goes if you had married a Virginian

[Ban Hammer 13,445]

The ACLU is really the ICLU - Illegal Civil Liberties Union. They have yet to move to protect national sovereignty or the distinction between legals and illegals, instead they work to destroy American citizen's rights. They are open borders traitors.

Meanwhile they are working every day to ensure that you have the right to say just that about them and about anybody else you desire with impunity.

sounds more like a description of the military.

and btw the aclu does have a purpose - to fill their coffers with lawsuit money.

[kerewin21 2]

Did you see "The Onion" article about the ACLU? It was titled, ACLU defends KKK's right to burn down their building.

But seriously, I don't think the military is fighting for our right to burn the flag, denounce the military and its generals, or denounce the president.

Ooops, I had it wrong, it was the Nazis not the KKK.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39182

Edited November 6, 2007 by kerewin21

[Ban Hammer 13,445]

Did you see "The Onion" article about the ACLU? It was titled, ACLU defends KKK's right to burn down their building.

But seriously, I don't think the military is fighting for our right to burn the flag, denounce the military and its generals, or denounce the president.

Ooops, I had it wrong, it was the Nazis not the KKK.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39182

i'm glad to know you think the military isn't fighting to protect your rights and way of life. only lawyers can do that.