Oklahoma targets illegal immigrants with tough new law

[Cassie 8]

What I am saying if I have a traffic accident where the police are called out I would be highly suprised if they chose to put me in jail because I choose not to carry any form of identification or that they would question my legality. However, if I were to 'look wrong' there is a very high chance that I would get the 'treatment'. I know this from personal experience, although as a one off, it's highly anecdotal.

ph, they can run your name thru the database. same for the vehicle.

also, you may get a ticket for not having your dl with you

In Oklahoma, if you get caught driving without a license, you get arrested.

[Peikko 1,575]

There is a difference between driving 'without a license' and not carrying your driving license while driving. A do the latter.

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

from one of the local TV stations:

Immigration Law Questions Answered

KOTV - 11/1/2007 4:55 PM - Updated 11/1/2007 6:20 PM

http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=138993

The police and Sheriff's Office both said Thursday that nothing changed overnight in the way they enforce the laws, but some Hispanics worry about round ups and roadblocks, which deputies and police say is not going to happen.

if the person is legal ... what's the worry? legal persons do carry identification with proper documentation ... yes?

if you're not legal ... now is the time to leave.

Exactly-

so anyone who does not have a US Govt. issued ID or state issued ID and committs a crime, they should be worried!

The new law requires an immigration status check on people who are under arrest. Some Hispanics worry anytime they encounter law enforcement they are subject to an immigration check, but police say only people without a drivers license need to worry. During a traffic stop, drivers without a license are typically arrested, and illegal immigrants are no exception. Law enforcement authorities say they will not check immigration status for routine matters like reporting crimes or helping police with information.

[SMOKE 1,426]

some people can't stand it when their arguement is baseless & someone points it out.......just a statement

Probably not proof you will accept - but a cursory (quick) google search revealed this:

Black, Latino drivers fare worse in traffic stops

That and the infamous UK Sus Laws that contributed greatly to the Brixton riots in the early 80's.

As far as proving a generality goes I think we can safely say it happens. My opinion, sure, but one with a degree of foundation to it.

yep you're right...not accepting....how about some proof it is happening or will happen in OK because of this law?

It was a general point, but as far as that goes I don't think OK is all that much different from the rest of the country. We're not talking Hawaii here After all - no man is an island. Neither is OK State. And it seems to me that if you were being honest here - you would actually acknowledge these points as something to further the discussion (whether you agree with them or not), rather than get outraged and indignant.

As far as that goes I'm a little bemused that you somehow expect me to expected to predict what will happen following the implementation of this law. I'm not H.G. Wells after all However if we're talking generalities - of what has happened in the past (in similar circumstances) well...

I guess you can just relax, smoke another cigar and be happy that just because I can't prove what will happen - that everything is therefore hunky dory.

Saying that of course I think I can probably predict what your response to this post will be - if only in general terms

blah blah blah...SOS. the fact of the matter is Oklahoma has the right to & has taken messures to ensure its social services are not used or abused by those who have no right to them.

Oklahoma was also the 1st state to ban sales of cold & sinus medication w/o an ID (in an effort to curb the meth problem) this may be another case where the rest of the country follows Oklahoma lead & protects its services, even if the fed gov't won't.

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

What I am saying if I have a traffic accident where the police are called out I would be highly suprised if they chose to put me in jail because I choose not to carry any form of identification or that they would question my legality. However, if I were to 'look wrong' there is a very high chance that I would get the 'treatment'. I know this from personal experience, although as a one off, it's highly anecdotal.

ph, they can run your name thru the database. same for the vehicle.

also, you may get a ticket for not having your dl with you

In Oklahoma, if you get caught driving without a license, you get arrested.

i don't know what the penalty is for here in kansas - i've been told to always have it with me when driving. just seems common sense to me.

[Cassie 8]

There is a difference between driving 'without a license' and not carrying your driving license while driving. A do the latter.

Fair enough.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

blah blah blah...

Yup. That about says it all really

[peejay 327]

People have a bad habit of blowing things way out of proportion from how things really are. This is not the second coming of the Gestapo or the KGB.

Sure this law will impact Hispanics more than any one group because 80%+ of illegal aliens in America are Hispanic. That's a fact whether people want to accept it or not. Reality is reality. The law will not specifically target Hispanics because that is illegal in itself. It will target illegal aliens. But since most illegal aliens are Hispanic, that is who will get nailed in far greater numbers than any other group by far.

This is just another tool by law enforcement that is to be used to enforce the law within guidelines of the law. The race card some want to throw out is a smokescreen. Just like enforcement of any other law...there has to be probable cause and racial profiling is not probable cause. Cops know what they can or cannot do to enforce the laws legally within set guidelines. Otherwise they run afoul of the law themselves.

peejay, it seems your argument boils down to 'Yeah, Hispanics will be harassed, but so what, I'm not Hispanic and neither is anyone I care about, so it's a good law.'

Did you flunk reading comprehension in school? Where did you get that from my statement? I'm not advocating anybody to be harrassed. I'm just saying that more Hispanics will be arrested for immigration violations because they are by a huge margine the biggest offenders. It's true. Refute it if you can.

Don't do the crime and you won't do the time. It's not about harrassing anyone who isn't violating the law or questioning people without probable cause. You just love to make mountains out of ant hills.

It's real easy to criticize and nitpick, but I have never seen you propose anything to keep another 20 million illegal aliens from invading. You're either part of the solution or part of the problem. Which is it?

[SMOKE 1,426]

blah blah blah...

Yup. That about says it all really

i see you're out of proofs

[Peikko 1,575]

My one incidence with the police was before I had my actual license. I had a temporary one for a while between taking the written test and taking the driven test. I didn't have any form of identification on me because I was going hiking. The police officer wasn't that bothered. I can only assume it was because I didn't look like 'a criminal'. Who can say?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Did you flunk reading comprehension in school? Where did you get that from my statement? I'm not advocating anybody to be harrassed. I'm just saying that more Hispanics will be arrested for immigration violations because they are by a huge margine the biggest offenders. It's true. Refute it if you can.

Don't do the crime and you won't do the time. It's not about harrassing anyone who isn't violating the law or questioning people without probable cause. You just love to make mountains out of ant hills.

It's real easy to criticize and nitpick, but I have never seen you propose anything to keep another 20 million illegal aliens from invading. You're either part of the solution or part of the problem. Which is it?

Would it be inaccurate to suggest that where these laws run into problems is because they inevitably end up targeting the wrong people? If the practical basis of criteria for a traffic stop is physical appearance, its difficult to see how that won't cause problems - because on some level you have to accept that law-abiding, tax-paying people will end up on the receiving end.

That might seem fine for you and me - but then we're not the ones who would have to deal with the inconvenience.

IMO That's where the harrassment angle comes from and why law enforcement agencies and lawmakers tip-toe on egg-shells around this sort of thing.

[Caladan 19]

Your whole line here as been is 'worries by legal residents about how the law makes it a felony to assist someone out-of-status are silly because my wife and daughter wouldn't be harassed, don't worry, they're only going after traffickers.' 'Don't worry, we don't mean The Right Sort of People' is not a good law when the law, as stated, could very easily apply to me if we do something as simple as miss an interview appointment. I have been pointing out that the STATUTE, the actual law, only seems to be acceptable to everyone here because they're certain it won't be them in that position.

I am not in favor of laws that promote mindless discrimination, even if I'm not a likely target (and I'm really not.) And I think that's exactly what this law does; it makes it sensible to discriminate against legal Hispanics on the grounds that you can't be quite sure whether they'll end up illegal, do you want to risk a felony? I do not like laws that make someone a felon where the main defense of it is 'they probably won't harass you.'

I also think it would be a bad law to make it a felony to wear a miniskirt, even if the cops assured me they'd only use it to fine prostitutes, not good little girls like me.

[Peikko 1,575]

Nutshelled, I think.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

blah blah blah...

Yup. That about says it all really

i see you're out of proofs

Well to reiterate - I made a point based on a set of general precedents, which is a perfectly valid argument.

It strikes me as somewhat less than reasonable to ask me to prove the impossible

[no name 1]

I didn't know my husband was out of status until the week before we got married.

And at that point, I didn't really care. (And no, he never lied to me, I just never asked. I didn't care.)

Sure glad we don't live in Oklahoma. Because it seems like this is going to affect legal immigrants in a bad way, too.

Well right now, the mantra is:

"The Tulsa County Sheriff's Office says the only Hispanic people who need to worry about being deported are the ones who are here illegally and are caught committing a crime." (as quoted from the kotv website)

I'm still carrying around all my paperwork everywhere I go.

That's an issue you have ... you really should care. I care very much about my wife's status ... and the location of her documentation ... and copies.

Thanks for the smartass remark, but as you can see, I said I didn't know until the week before we got married. Obviously I know now, and since we paid a couple thousand dollars to get his status fixed, obviously I care now. Nice job reading.

Not that knowing his legal status when I met him would have changed the way I felt about him.

Point is, if I was dumb enough to live in OK (thank God I'm not) now I'd be in trouble for moving in with my boyfriend because they'd just assume I knew.

And just because OK passes this doesn't mean other states will follow ... look at the NYS governor who wants to loosen the restrictions on driver's licenses, making it easier for an illegal to get a NYS driver's license.

Not cool, AT ALL.

----

THat's a damn big thing NOT to know before you get married, esp a week out.

Psh, why?

I knew we'd have to do AOS, regardless of whether he was out of status or in status. So we did, and were approved in less than 2 months.

Not really a big problem.

And maybe it's not cool...but it's not somewhere I'd ever want to live So oh well. Sorry if I offended but I can't take it back.

Sorry dev...you know I love you buttt it's just how I feel.

Because you were a week way from committing your life to someone - and he held back some damn important & potentially damaging info. Things that could have affected your life.

And I got upset (because I wanted to know why he hadn't told me, not because my life path would be so different, because as you can see, it wasnt), we resolved it, we moved on. Am I supposed to go home and start throwing stuff at him because VJ tells me I should be more upset, almost a year later?

No one said that. It's your life.

It personally would have rasied a helluva lot of issues if it was my relationship. I researched everything I could (in the UK & USA) before marrying a foreigner.