What Part of Illegal Don't You Understand?

[SteveLaura 0]

Excellent point. It goes to what I said earlier. You can't break the law a "little bit". You either do or don't. Jaywalking or murder, they are both laws and you can't do it a little bit!

Illegal is illegal. Law is law. If you cannot figure that out then there is little point in continuing the discussion because it has lost the foundation of creditbility. Legal v. illegal, good v. evil. There is no gray area. They either obey the laws or they break them.

You can call them illegal or whatever PC term suits you but the fact remains that the laws were broken.

Personally, I'm not arguing against the illegality of what has been done by coming here. To utilise your analogy a while, if the punishment for jaywalking was execution, I would suggest that most reasonable people would agree that it's excessive. Similarly, deportation (notwithstanding that it's impractical) is a punishment that does not fit the crime, in my opinion.

That's like saying if the punishment for jaywalking was making the person walk back across the street and cross in the legal, structured manner, it would be unreasonable.

This thread has too many analogies.

I'm saying, offer illegal immigrants a legal route. Here's a guest worker program. Pay the fine if you're here already. Start afresh. You've already been caught speeding. Don't do it again. Not - OK, back up 200 yards and drive down here at 25mph. (Damn, another analogy.)

[Drew and Tik 0]

Excellent point. It goes to what I said earlier. You can't break the law a "little bit". You either do or don't. Jaywalking or murder, they are both laws and you can't do it a little bit!

Illegal is illegal. Law is law. If you cannot figure that out then there is little point in continuing the discussion because it has lost the foundation of creditbility. Legal v. illegal, good v. evil. There is no gray area. They either obey the laws or they break them.

You can call them illegal or whatever PC term suits you but the fact remains that the laws were broken.

Personally, I'm not arguing against the illegality of what has been done by coming here. To utilise your analogy a while, if the punishment for jaywalking was execution, I would suggest that most reasonable people would agree that it's excessive. Similarly, deportation (notwithstanding that it's impractical) is a punishment that does not fit the crime, in my opinion.

That's like saying if the punishment for jaywalking was making the person walk back across the street and cross in the legal, structured manner, it would be unreasonable.

This thread has too many analogies.

I'm saying, offer illegal immigrants a legal route. Here's a guest worker program. Pay the fine if you're here already. Start afresh. You've already been caught speeding. Don't do it again. Not - OK, back up 200 yards and drive down here at 25mph. (Damn, another analogy.)

If they do that I'm sneaking Tik in through Canada and saying screw this whole process :-p

In reality, what you're saying isn't too unreasonable, maybe they'll figure out some way to make it work...I mean it sure beats what they're doing about the problem right now (literally almost nothing).

At least there would be a way to keep track of their overdue medical bills, etc if they were on the books somehow, though I think making them go through some sort of "normal" immigration process might be more fair, in addition to a hefty fine for being here illegally in the first place. After that I think they would have paid for their infraction, or at least it would help the problem a little.

Edited October 29, 2007 by Drew and Tik

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

OPINION | October 28, 2007

Editorial Observer: What Part of 'Illegal' Don't You Understand?

By LAWRENCE DOWNES

America has a big problem with illegal immigration, but a big part of it stems from the word “illegal.” As a code word for racial and ethnic hatred, it is detestable.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/opinion/...70&emc=eta1

I'd love to see people here reconsider their use of this derogatory term on this forum. Something to think about.

Those who find the word "illegal" Detesable are destetable.

The word has NO racial suggestion it desrcibes those immigrants who are in the USA Illegally who entered the USA without inspection, continue to remain in the USA Illegally. There may be some profiling or suggestion that certain population makes up the majority of illegals due to the fact that there is a majority population that accounts for the illegals in this country.

They do NOTHING positive for USA They drain the tax system, Takke from US Citizens & legal residents.

Illegals are like a cancer the more they are allowed to remain it will spread detroying everything it is path.

Immigration needs to enforced to the fullest extent of the Law. That means deportation, fines ect. NO benefits for those who chose to willingly break federal and state laws no hand outs no leniancy they are criminals and derserve nothing more than a swift kick in the ####### back to where they came from.

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

I'm saying, offer illegal immigrants a legal route. Here's a guest worker program. Pay the fine if you're here already. Start afresh. You've already been caught speeding. Don't do it again. Not - OK, back up 200 yards and drive down here at 25mph. (Damn, another analogy.)

Your saying reward them for entering illegally, the only path or option they shoul dbe given is one that STARTS with them being deported, made to pay fines & penalties then They can Apply for RE-ENTRY behind EVERYONE ELSE who is doing things legally!

These Illegals are offered a legal route they chose not to take it, the legal route is the process everyone here is painfully going through.

These Illegal criminlas deserve no special treatment.

[SteveLaura 0]

I'm saying, offer illegal immigrants a legal route. Here's a guest worker program. Pay the fine if you're here already. Start afresh. You've already been caught speeding. Don't do it again. Not - OK, back up 200 yards and drive down here at 25mph. (Damn, another analogy.)

Your saying reward them for entering illegally, the only path or option they shoul dbe given is one that STARTS with them being deported, made to pay fines & penalties then They can Apply for RE-ENTRY behind EVERYONE ELSE who is doing things legally!

These Illegals are offered a legal route they chose not to take it, the legal route is the process everyone here is painfully going through.

These Illegal criminlas deserve no special treatment.

You're right. I was only messin' wit' yer earlier. I say string 'em up. That's the only language they understand.

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

OK. But rounding up and deporting people isn't practical, cost-effective or, I would argue, justifiable in all cases. The punishment just doesn't fit the crime. Like it or not, illegal immigration is a result of poor management - or the border & firms who hire them. Closing both loopholes is a good start. A guest worker program makes sense. And for those already here, unfortunately that's a problem we just have to swallow, I'd suggest.

I had the opportunity to come here illegally. Who didn't? I could have overstayed my 3mth visit. I chose not to because the reasons I wanted to come here differed wildly from those crossing the border. I could wait. I could afford the costs. I had a visa option to utilise. No, it doesn't justify immigrants coming here illegally anyway. And justice still needs to be seen to be done, so that those of us who are paying fees and filling forms (albeit in different situations) don't feel duped. So, yes, a fine is reasonable. It's a punishment used for other instances where a law is broken. I fail to see why this shouldn't be one of them.

Ok then the fine should be in the $1000.00 and they shoul dnot be allowed to receive any social services or ANY benefits until that fine is paid .

Oh yeah & 1 more thing they should go BACK to their country of origin , PAy The Fine THEN APPLY, to be CONSIDERED for A VISA Behind EVERYONE who chose to obey the Law.

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

Personally, I'm not arguing against the illegality of what has been done by coming here. To utilise your analogy a while, if the punishment for jaywalking was execution, I would suggest that most reasonable people would agree that it's excessive. Similarly, deportation (notwithstanding that it's impractical) is a punishment that does not fit the crime, in my opinion.

Typically, if someone gained something illegally, the first step in the process of "making it right" is to return what has been illegally gained. Without equating the two offenses, a bank robber is typically not allowed to hang on to the loot. The deportation (or the voluntary departure) is really not so much the punishment as it is giving up what has been illegally gained - the very presence in this country. The actual punishment is a ban on re-entry which I think it fits the crime quite well.

EXACTLY What has been gained illegally should be made right, including paying for Services Obtained while here ILLEGALLY that all should be built into the fine.

[♥JP♥ 5]

Would using the word "illegal" be an issue in another country? Thoughts anyone???

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

Would using the word "illegal" be an issue in another country? Thoughts anyone???

[AmericanGentleman 0]

Well, the logical solution is to create a path for legalization that is longer and more expensive than doing it the right way. Short sighted people think they can simply slap a fine on them and have them pay back taxes. I am a US citizen and I can barely keep up with my current taxes. I suggested they pay off their fine by doing government service work...anything from stuffing enveloped to doing construction work. But something that basically puts you as an indentured servant to the government. My great grandparents immigrated here and worked as indentured servants to pay for their travel here. My grandparents were lucky to have found that sort of offer, but that kinda of human compassion is gone from this country now but could be rivived via the social nets.

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

Well, the logical solution is to create a path for legalization that is longer and more expensive than doing it the right way. Short sighted people think they can simply slap a fine on them and have them pay back taxes. I am a US citizen and I can barely keep up with my current taxes. I suggested they pay off their fine by doing government service work...anything from stuffing enveloped to doing construction work. But something that basically puts you as an indentured servant to the government. My great grandparents immigrated here and worked as indentured servants to pay for their travel here. My grandparents were lucky to have found that sort of offer, but that kinda of human compassion is gone from this country now but could be rivived via the social nets.

logical to you, not to me. i favor a nationwide employment check, ssa talking to the irs, more interagency cooperation, and more workplace inspections and higher fines for employers.

dry up the source of money, they'll self deport imo.

[almaty 19]

I'm saying, offer illegal immigrants a legal route. Here's a guest worker program. Pay the fine if you're here already. Start afresh. You've already been caught speeding. Don't do it again. Not - OK, back up 200 yards and drive down here at 25mph. (Damn, another analogy.)

Your saying reward them for entering illegally, the only path or option they shoul dbe given is one that STARTS with them being deported, made to pay fines & penalties then They can Apply for RE-ENTRY behind EVERYONE ELSE who is doing things legally!

These Illegals are offered a legal route they chose not to take it, the legal route is the process everyone here is painfully going through.

These Illegal criminlas deserve no special treatment.

You're right. I was only messin' wit' yer earlier. I say string 'em up. That's the only language they understand.

[Gaby&Talbert 1]

I am one that thinks deportation is too extreme if they have been here for a certain amount of time but who says they have to become citizens?

1-Fine ALL employers who do not have documents for all employees NO EXCEPTIONS

2-Require all employees without name match 90 days to comply or be fired NO EXCEPTIONS

3-SECURE ALL BORDERS!NO EXCEPTIONS

3-Establish a NEW VISA for undocumented immigrants with no path to citizenship but allow to remain and apply for EAD. US Citizen children, spouses, etc. cannot petition for them unless they return to their home country for x years and then go through normal petition process. If children of new visa holder are born in US they can have citizenship but are not allowed to petition for relatives at all or at least until they pass a certain age like 28 or something. Change the tax rate for these visa holders that they have no deductions and are required to report all income to USCIS as well as IRS every year to ensure they pay taxes.

The criminals are not going to register period because they would not be allowed to stay. The only way to get them out of the country is cut off ALL means of employment. They will be forced into illegal means of making money and then the police will eventually catch up with them.

NOTHING WILL WORK UNLESS THEY FIX THE PROBLEMS WITH THE CURRENT SYSTEM

SECURE BORDERS

ENFORCE EMPLOYMENT LAWS

TRACK ALL IMMIGRANTS WITH AUTOMATIC DEPORTATION IF THEY DON'T COMPLY NO EXCEPTIONS

[AmericanGentleman 0]

I am one that thinks deportation is too extreme if they have been here for a certain amount of time but who says they have to become citizens?

1-Fine ALL employers who do not have documents for all employees NO EXCEPTIONS

2-Require all employees without name match 90 days to comply or be fired NO EXCEPTIONS

3-SECURE ALL BORDERS!NO EXCEPTIONS

3-Establish a NEW VISA for undocumented immigrants with no path to citizenship but allow to remain and apply for EAD. US Citizen children, spouses, etc. cannot petition for them unless they return to their home country for x years and then go through normal petition process. If children of new visa holder are born in US they can have citizenship but are not allowed to petition for relatives at all or at least until they pass a certain age like 28 or something. Change the tax rate for these visa holders that they have no deductions and are required to report all income to USCIS as well as IRS every year to ensure they pay taxes.

The criminals are not going to register period because they would not be allowed to stay. The only way to get them out of the country is cut off ALL means of employment. They will be forced into illegal means of making money and then the police will eventually catch up with them.

NOTHING WILL WORK UNLESS THEY FIX THE PROBLEMS WITH THE CURRENT SYSTEM

SECURE BORDERS

ENFORCE EMPLOYMENT LAWS

TRACK ALL IMMIGRANTS WITH AUTOMATIC DEPORTATION IF THEY DON'T COMPLY NO EXCEPTIONS

Finally a voice of reason. Well spoken. I would like to see a path for legalization where they have a choice to remain and pay into the system via indentured servants that would take LONGER than the normal process...but I would accept your plan in compromise.

[Raspect 0]

OPINION | October 28, 2007

Editorial Observer: What Part of 'Illegal' Don't You Understand?

By LAWRENCE DOWNES

America has a big problem with illegal immigration, but a big part of it stems from the word “illegal.” As a code word for racial and ethnic hatred, it is detestable.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/opinion/...70&emc=eta1

I'd love to see people here reconsider their use of this derogatory term on this forum. Something to think about.

Those who find the word "illegal" Detesable are destetable.

The word has NO racial suggestion it desrcibes those immigrants who are in the USA Illegally who entered the USA without inspection, continue to remain in the USA Illegally. There may be some profiling or suggestion that certain population makes up the majority of illegals due to the fact that there is a majority population that accounts for the illegals in this country.

They do NOTHING positive for USA They drain the tax system, Takke from US Citizens & legal residents.

Illegals are like a cancer the more they are allowed to remain it will spread detroying everything it is path.

Immigration needs to enforced to the fullest extent of the Law. That means deportation, fines ect. NO benefits for those who chose to willingly break federal and state laws no hand outs no leniancy they are criminals and derserve nothing more than a swift kick in the ####### back to where they came from.

I saw the nickname Goodvibes, and of course that is what I am looking for, so I read on, of course, tired of all the hate that is consuming this post. And what do I see, nothing but goodvibes!!!!!

- NOTHING positive

- are like a cancer

- detroying everything

- NO benefits

- derserve nothing

- kick in the #######

That is exactly the pure POSITIVITY and GOOD VIBES I was looking for