Time to sue?

[dalegg 143]

While mechanics lien filings do vary from state to state, if the sub perfects his lien by notifying the property owner of the problem, that's usually all it takes. Materialmen and subs aren't left out to dry just because somebody didn't sign a contract.

I'm a bit nervous about this part- but not overly since they've damaged my door and in the end I would countersue them.

The night I went to his house, my neighbor told me he was out of money because of paying the painters. I know damn well they don't charge that much, especially since they've only painted about half of it.

But, he was the one that pointed out the crack in the glass to me. Kind of wierd because I don't really think I would have noticed it had he not shown me. He was taking pictures of the door and of their sloppy painting. I think he's trying to get out of paying them, which tells me he lied and never paid them in the first place.

[Mags 112]

$8000, wow, get lawyered up, that's a lot of money to lose.

Our contractor gave us a written estimate for the job which included removing old siding, scraping/prep and painting it. He got $300 after the first days work and $390 after he'd done the house (excluding trim, which he still has to do). We still owe him $460, which he won't get until the job is finished, regardless of how nicely he asks for it.

He's cheap and runs at about 75% efficiency but he's the only buggar who answered our call, the rest ran a mile when they saw the outside.

So, yes, lawyer up, perhaps the threat of a legal suit will light a fire under his #######. To me he sounds like he's a little unstable too so just be careful.

Edited October 28, 2007 by Mags

[Fandango 1,440]

While mechanics lien filings do vary from state to state, if the sub perfects his lien by notifying the property owner of the problem, that's usually all it takes. Materialmen and subs aren't left out to dry just because somebody didn't sign a contract.

The subs can most certainly pursue the money with the person who hired them...which would be Dale's 'contractor'. So they're not 'left out to dry'...Dale didn't hire them, Dale didn't sign anything (that he told us about) saying that he was responsible for paying the subs...so as I see it, the onus is on his 'contractor' for the money as Dale is not a party to the contract between the 'contractor' and the subs.

Again, laws on this prolly vary from state to state so I wouldn't be so quick to make another worry for Dale when this might not be the case in his area.

Dale...he SAYS he's out of money, but I'd be willing to bet that if he hears you're prepared to file complaints all over town & get him in trouble for unlicensed work, I'd bet even money that he'd come up with the money somehow.

It's worth a shot, no? Path of least resistance and all that jazz.

[rebeccajo 14]

While mechanics lien filings do vary from state to state, if the sub perfects his lien by notifying the property owner of the problem, that's usually all it takes. Materialmen and subs aren't left out to dry just because somebody didn't sign a contract.

The subs can most certainly pursue the money with the person who hired them...which would be Dale's 'contractor'. So they're not 'left out to dry'...Dale didn't hire them, Dale didn't sign anything (that he told us about) saying that he was responsible for paying the subs...so as I see it, the onus is on his 'contractor' for the money as Dale is not a party to the contract between the 'contractor' and the subs.

Again, laws on this prolly vary from state to state so I wouldn't be so quick to make another worry for Dale when this might not be the case in his area.

Dale...he SAYS he's out of money, but I'd be willing to bet that if he hears you're prepared to file complaints all over town & get him in trouble for unlicensed work, I'd bet even money that he'd come up with the money somehow.

It's worth a shot, no? Path of least resistance and all that jazz.

I'm not making another worry for him. Letting someone know the facts isn't making a worry for them. It's letting them know the gravity of the situation so they can possibly stop it before it gets to that point.

We just filed a mechanic's lien last month on property LEASED by a company who didn't pay a materialman.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Is this Pedrohs amigo?

Sorry to hear about this ... hope you get it resolved.

[archie07 0]

Let me add something to this, These are federal mandated laws the construction industry licensing board must follow. Also, any person engageing in the construction field must carry workmans compensation. To be exempt from this rule said contractor must form a corporation to exclude only himself from this law and carry a workmans compensation exemption certificate. By hiring unlicensed contractors you are responsible for any accidents and can be sued. Once the Department of Professional Regulation receives a complaint they must follow up on it and this guy has broken several laws. This is only the tip of the iceburg, but I'm not going to sit here and recite every licensing law this guy has violated. Report him to the Department of Professional Regulation. He won't get away with stealing your 8,000 dollars when this gets into court. There should be an online site in your state for The Department Of Professional Regulation. Not only will this guy be dragged into court, but the painters as well for subcontracting from an unlicensed contractor. What people don't realize is code enforcement now drives around on the weekends in hopes of catching these guys. If you want to get your money back you need to start at the top. Good Luck

[dalegg 143]

Let me add something to this, These are federal mandated laws the construction industry licensing board must follow. Also, any person engageing in the construction field must carry workmans compensation. To be exempt from this rule said contractor must form a corporation to exclude only himself from this law and carry a workmans compensation exemption certificate. By hiring unlicensed contractors you are responsible for any accidents and can be sued. Once the Department of Professional Regulation receives a complaint they must follow up on it and this guy has broken several laws. This is only the tip of the iceburg, but I'm not going to sit here and recite every licensing law this guy has violated. Report him to the Department of Professional Regulation. He won't get away with stealing your 8,000 dollars when this gets into court. There should be an online site in your state for The Department Of Professional Regulation. Not only will this guy be dragged into court, but the painters as well for subcontracting from an unlicensed contractor. What people don't realize is code enforcement now drives around on the weekends in hopes of catching these guys. If you want to get your money back you need to start at the top. Good Luck

Yup, you are correct about all of that. I can only count my blessings that nobody got hurt out there. Small claims ends at $7500 in California, so I'm going to have to get an attorney. It might be better that way anyway because so far I've heard they cannot garnish his wages or repossess his property- at least for a small claims dispute. Don't know about grand theft.

[Fandango 1,440]

While mechanics lien filings do vary from state to state, if the sub perfects his lien by notifying the property owner of the problem, that's usually all it takes. Materialmen and subs aren't left out to dry just because somebody didn't sign a contract.

The subs can most certainly pursue the money with the person who hired them...which would be Dale's 'contractor'. So they're not 'left out to dry'...Dale didn't hire them, Dale didn't sign anything (that he told us about) saying that he was responsible for paying the subs...so as I see it, the onus is on his 'contractor' for the money as Dale is not a party to the contract between the 'contractor' and the subs.

Again, laws on this prolly vary from state to state so I wouldn't be so quick to make another worry for Dale when this might not be the case in his area.

Dale...he SAYS he's out of money, but I'd be willing to bet that if he hears you're prepared to file complaints all over town & get him in trouble for unlicensed work, I'd bet even money that he'd come up with the money somehow.

It's worth a shot, no? Path of least resistance and all that jazz.

I'm not making another worry for him. Letting someone know the facts isn't making a worry for them. It's letting them know the gravity of the situation so they can possibly stop it before it gets to that point.

We just filed a mechanic's lien last month on property LEASED by a company who didn't pay a materialman.

But what you're missing is that they are not hard core facts because you don't know what the laws in his state are or even assuming all state laws are exactly the same (which we all know they are not)....how the mitigating circs of his situation differ from what the situation that you've quoted above. That is my point.

You might be right, you might be wrong...it all depends on the state law and having a qualified atty sort it all out for him. But I don't think anyone here should talk in absolutes like below.

If he hasn't (and your money is already gone) the painters can put a lien against YOUR property for HIS non-payment.

Edited October 29, 2007 by LisaD

[rebeccajo 14]

While mechanics lien filings do vary from state to state, if the sub perfects his lien by notifying the property owner of the problem, that's usually all it takes. Materialmen and subs aren't left out to dry just because somebody didn't sign a contract.

The subs can most certainly pursue the money with the person who hired them...which would be Dale's 'contractor'. So they're not 'left out to dry'...Dale didn't hire them, Dale didn't sign anything (that he told us about) saying that he was responsible for paying the subs...so as I see it, the onus is on his 'contractor' for the money as Dale is not a party to the contract between the 'contractor' and the subs.

Again, laws on this prolly vary from state to state so I wouldn't be so quick to make another worry for Dale when this might not be the case in his area.

Dale...he SAYS he's out of money, but I'd be willing to bet that if he hears you're prepared to file complaints all over town & get him in trouble for unlicensed work, I'd bet even money that he'd come up with the money somehow.

It's worth a shot, no? Path of least resistance and all that jazz.

I'm not making another worry for him. Letting someone know the facts isn't making a worry for them. It's letting them know the gravity of the situation so they can possibly stop it before it gets to that point.

We just filed a mechanic's lien last month on property LEASED by a company who didn't pay a materialman.

But what you're missing is that they are not hard core facts because you don't know what the laws in his state are or even assuming all state laws are exactly the same (which we all know they are not)....how the mitigating circs of his situation differ from what the situation that you've quoted above. That is my point.

You might be right, you might be wrong...it all depends on the state law and having a qualified atty sort it all out for him. But I don't think anyone here should talk in absolutes like below.

If he hasn't (and your money is already gone) the painters can put a lien against YOUR property for HIS non-payment.

God forbid someone who knows what they are talking about give anybody advice that contradicts your almighty last word.

[archie07 0]

Let me add something to this, These are federal mandated laws the construction industry licensing board must follow. Also, any person engageing in the construction field must carry workmans compensation. To be exempt from this rule said contractor must form a corporation to exclude only himself from this law and carry a workmans compensation exemption certificate. By hiring unlicensed contractors you are responsible for any accidents and can be sued. Once the Department of Professional Regulation receives a complaint they must follow up on it and this guy has broken several laws. This is only the tip of the iceburg, but I'm not going to sit here and recite every licensing law this guy has violated. Report him to the Department of Professional Regulation. He won't get away with stealing your 8,000 dollars when this gets into court. There should be an online site in your state for The Department Of Professional Regulation. Not only will this guy be dragged into court, but the painters as well for subcontracting from an unlicensed contractor. What people don't realize is code enforcement now drives around on the weekends in hopes of catching these guys. If you want to get your money back you need to start at the top. Good Luck

Yup, you are correct about all of that. I can only count my blessings that nobody got hurt out there. Small claims ends at $7500 in California, so I'm going to have to get an attorney. It might be better that way anyway because so far I've heard they cannot garnish his wages or repossess his property- at least for a small claims dispute. Don't know about grand theft.

WEll, that's why I say start at the top. It's unfortunate this had to happen, but you need to make plenty of noise now. Another thing homeowners don't realize is unlicensed contractors = substandard work, they have no idea of the building codes. My brother and I retired from our jobs and went back to school for our builders licenses. WE must carry liabilty, workmans comp, bonds and every two years take continuing education courses. Besides code updates, they teach us the legal aspect of the construction industry. You can't imagine how it irks me when I see a guy driving down the street in a station wagon with a tool box and a ladder hanging out the back claiming to be a contractor. The job may look good but a year later the paint may start peeling or the siding blow off the house and you have no recourse. Since this wasn't a verbal contract and you have a written contract from an unlicensed contractor you do have the upper hand in this case. I don't know california criminal laws but there's no telling what he may be charged with when the Department of Professional Regulation takes him to court. I would hope he is ordered to pay restitution to you. Good Luck

[Ban Hammer 13,641]

God forbid someone who knows what they are talking about give anybody advice that contradicts your almighty last word.

wut row, time to head for the fallout shelter

[archie07 0]

An Overview of California Mechanic Liens and Stop Notice Remedies

By William C. Last of Last & Faoro

When someone who provides labor, services, equipment or materials to a construction project is not fully paid, he can file suit against the person who failed to pay him. However, even if he were to win such a suit, his ability to collect may be limited by the other party's bankruptcy or lack of assets, or even the disappearance of the other party. In order to help alleviate these problems, California Law provides several procedures whereby one who provides services to a construction project can obtain a more secure position. This article will provide a brief overview of the nature of the remedies and basic requirements for exercising those remedies. Future articles will elaborate on the requirements for using the remedies.

A properly filed and foreclosed Mechanic'sLien gives the claimant a security interest in the property itself. If the Mechanic's Lien claimant prevails at trial, the court will order the sale of the property on which the lien claimant performed work or supplied materials in order to pay off the lien claimant.

A properly served and perfected Stop Notice gives the claimant a lien against undisbursed construction funds in the possession of either the owner or the lender. For private works of improvement, the Mechanic's Lien and Stop Notice gives the claimant a lien against undisbursed construction funds in the possession of either the owner or the lender.

A properly served and perfected claim on a payment bond gives the claimant the right to recover the amount owed from the surety that issued the bond.

For private works of improvement, the Mechanic's Lien and Stop Notice are cumulative remedies which can be simultaneously pursued along with a suit for breach of contract on the underlying debt. Generally, a Mechanic's Lien cannot be filed on a publicly owned parcel of real property. On California public works projects, the Stop Notice and payment bond claims are cumulative remedies.

An understanding of Mechanic's Lien, Payment Bond and/or Stop Notice procedures can greatly increase the chances of eventual collection by the subcontractor or supplier. The Lien and Stop Notice laws are extremely technical and even the smallest failure to take the proper steps, at the proper time and in the proper order, can result in the complete loss of the claimant's Mechanic's Lien and Stop Notice rights. It should be noted that even if these remedies are lost, the unpaid contractor may still sue the party with whom it contracted for the amount owed. The following chart sets forth the various remedies:

Action

Parties to Action

Remedy

Limitation Period

Breach of Contract

Whomever you contracted with

Money judgment

Written Contract 4 years

Oral Contract 2 years

Common counts

Whomever you provided the goods and services to

Money Judgment

Generally 4 years, with certain exceptions for 2 years

Mechanic's Lien

Owner of property and the entity you contracted with

Money judgment that can be collected by foreclosing on the property that was liened

File lawsuit 90 days after recording the mechanic's lien, which is only valid if the prerequisites are satisfied

Payment Bond

Principal on payment bond (typically the general contractor) and the surety issuing the bond

Money judgment that can be satisfied by payment from the surety who issued the bond

Six months after the notice of completion or cessation is recorded, if none recorded then 6 months after the 60 day period expires from the date of actual completion

Stop Notice (Private Works)

Owner, General contractor and lender holding funds

Money judgment that can be recovered from the funds withheld in accordance with the stop notice

File lawsuit 90 days after serving the stop notice, which is only valid if the prerequisites are satisfied

Only certain parties are able to take advantage of the lien laws. In order to qualify, the prospective claimant must generally (1) perform services, provide labor or provide materials to the project; (2) the services, labor or materials which were supplied must be used or consumed in the project; and (3) the owner or his representative (e.g., general contractor) must authorize the services or materials.

The Mechanic's Lien, Stop Notice and Payment Bond procedures involve three basic steps:

FirstServing a preliminary 20-day notice;

SecondRecording the Mechanic's Lien, serving the Stop Notice or making the claim on the payment bond; and

ThirdFiling a lawsuit to: (1) foreclose the Lien; (2) enforce the Stop Notice, or (3) enforce the claim against the surety.

Accompanying this article is a Simplified Private Work Mechanic's Lien that sets forth the basic steps for exercising these unique remedies. As previously stated, if you intend to use these remedies you must comply precisely with the statutory conditions for using them. If you are unfamiliar with the requirements, it is recommended that you attend a seminar on the lien laws. If you have a specific question about application of the lien statutes to your particular situation, you should seek the advice of legal counsel who is familiar with this area of California law.

This article, © 1999, was written by William C. Last, Jr. of Last, Harrelson & Faoro. Mr. Last is an attorney who has been specializing in Construction Law for over eighteen years. Mr. Last also holds a California A&B contractors license. If you have any questions Mr. Last can be contacted at 415-764-1990 or 650-696-8350. This bulletin is published periodically to provide general information about current legal issues. If you have a specific legal question or need legal advice, you should contact an attorney.

[Fandango 1,440]

While mechanics lien filings do vary from state to state, if the sub perfects his lien by notifying the property owner of the problem, that's usually all it takes. Materialmen and subs aren't left out to dry just because somebody didn't sign a contract.

The subs can most certainly pursue the money with the person who hired them...which would be Dale's 'contractor'. So they're not 'left out to dry'...Dale didn't hire them, Dale didn't sign anything (that he told us about) saying that he was responsible for paying the subs...so as I see it, the onus is on his 'contractor' for the money as Dale is not a party to the contract between the 'contractor' and the subs.

Again, laws on this prolly vary from state to state so I wouldn't be so quick to make another worry for Dale when this might not be the case in his area.

Dale...he SAYS he's out of money, but I'd be willing to bet that if he hears you're prepared to file complaints all over town & get him in trouble for unlicensed work, I'd bet even money that he'd come up with the money somehow.

It's worth a shot, no? Path of least resistance and all that jazz.

I'm not making another worry for him. Letting someone know the facts isn't making a worry for them. It's letting them know the gravity of the situation so they can possibly stop it before it gets to that point.

We just filed a mechanic's lien last month on property LEASED by a company who didn't pay a materialman.

But what you're missing is that they are not hard core facts because you don't know what the laws in his state are or even assuming all state laws are exactly the same (which we all know they are not)....how the mitigating circs of his situation differ from what the situation that you've quoted above. That is my point.

You might be right, you might be wrong...it all depends on the state law and having a qualified atty sort it all out for him. But I don't think anyone here should talk in absolutes like below.

If he hasn't (and your money is already gone) the painters can put a lien against YOUR property for HIS non-payment.

God forbid someone who knows what they are talking about give anybody advice that contradicts your almighty last word.

I'm sorry you seem to be taking offense to this, but the simple fact is, you're not a real estate lawyer practicing in the OP's state.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

While mechanics lien filings do vary from state to state, if the sub perfects his lien by notifying the property owner of the problem, that's usually all it takes. Materialmen and subs aren't left out to dry just because somebody didn't sign a contract.

The subs can most certainly pursue the money with the person who hired them...which would be Dale's 'contractor'. So they're not 'left out to dry'...Dale didn't hire them, Dale didn't sign anything (that he told us about) saying that he was responsible for paying the subs...so as I see it, the onus is on his 'contractor' for the money as Dale is not a party to the contract between the 'contractor' and the subs.

Again, laws on this prolly vary from state to state so I wouldn't be so quick to make another worry for Dale when this might not be the case in his area.

Dale...he SAYS he's out of money, but I'd be willing to bet that if he hears you're prepared to file complaints all over town & get him in trouble for unlicensed work, I'd bet even money that he'd come up with the money somehow.

It's worth a shot, no? Path of least resistance and all that jazz.

I'm not making another worry for him. Letting someone know the facts isn't making a worry for them. It's letting them know the gravity of the situation so they can possibly stop it before it gets to that point.

We just filed a mechanic's lien last month on property LEASED by a company who didn't pay a materialman.

But what you're missing is that they are not hard core facts because you don't know what the laws in his state are or even assuming all state laws are exactly the same (which we all know they are not)....how the mitigating circs of his situation differ from what the situation that you've quoted above. That is my point.

You might be right, you might be wrong...it all depends on the state law and having a qualified atty sort it all out for him. But I don't think anyone here should talk in absolutes like below.

If he hasn't (and your money is already gone) the painters can put a lien against YOUR property for HIS non-payment.

God forbid someone who knows what they are talking about give anybody advice that contradicts your almighty last word.

I'm sorry you seem to be taking offense to this, but the simple fact is, you're not a real estate lawyer practicing in the OP's state.

Dale just asked for people's advice...he wasn't expecting this to turn into a battle of opinions. Geez, just give him the best advice you've got and leave it at that. I don't understand this incessant need to prove others wrong.

[L_n_O 3]

Sounds like Judge Judy time to me!!!