I'm sure it's been posted before...(9/11 Pentagon Plane)

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

compared to...

[Fischkoepfin 1]

I suppose at the end of the day I'm not as intellectually courageous as I would like to be. I haven't watched these Internet films that I know are available, and I know that I should, even if I ultimately decide they're misleading or wrong. But I just don't want to.

I don't want to re-live 9/11, and I'm not even one of the people who lost a family member or a close friend. It was just scary enough to be at school at the time, as I was, and have bomb threats called in to my campus such that I couldn't even go into my dorm room until late in the afternoon. I remember sitting in the chapel and the business school, the two buildings that had been cleared by the police first, and watching CNN on huge projection screens for most of the afternoon because there was nothing else to do. I went to church that night and just cried and cried. And again, I can't imagine how frightening and heartbreaking it must have been to have lost a spouse, or a child, or a sibling, or a parent, or a friend that day.

But besides that, as much as I don't like out current Administration, I don't actually want to believe that they're capable of evil. I really don't think they are--well, at least I hope they're not. Gross mismanagement, horrible judgment, hubris, plain old stupidity--I can buy all of that. But not actual, calculating, premeditated evil. I'm still young and silly enough to want to think that somewhere in government, the good guys are still running the show. I still hope that's true.

I don't think they are capable of an act that evil either, but that doesn't mean that I don't find their attempts to stall an independent investigation suspicious. The thing is if you have nothing to hide, then there's no reason to be reluctant to release information. Unless something went wrong - and missile or plane hitting the Pentagon means something went really wrong given that a new air defense system was installed on the roof before the attacks. And keeping things out of public view has been one of the markers of the current administration because they don't like to admit that something went wrong.

I have no idea what happened and like you I was long reluctant to read any of those 9/11-conspiracy pages for similar reasons. But I find it remarkable that these people are so persistant and it provides some food for thought.

[slim 1,530]

So this isn't the first time this has happened?

[Fischkoepfin 1]

compared to...

Interesting! So you think there was a similar agenda behind 9/11 as behind the bombing of the Maine?

[pax 0]

Well, I agree with you in theory, Slim, but I think the question is more complicated when you're faced with the claim or the possibility that one's own government caused, or purposely allowed, or however you want to call it, an event like 9/11. Americans certainly don't have a franchise on head-in-the-sand tendencies, but it's hard to argue that it's not a major problem, especially among the segments of the population that would have the most to lose if some of this stuff ever turned out to be true.

I'm not so ignorant as to believe that 9/11 is somehow the be-all and end-all of Terrible Things That Happen to Innocent People. I do rather detest that mindset that somehow the 9/11 victims are more special, more innocent, or more heroic than the millions upon millions of people who have died for no reason at the hand of evil, power-hungry people throughout the entire history of humanity--and, yes, the American government has been responsible for some of that. I don't know why, if I can believe that our government purposely wiped out thousands of the indigenous Americans, for example, and is purposely holding captive individuals whose only crimes are likely to be being in the wrong places at the wrong times, I can't also believe that 9/11 was purposely allowed to happen. I can believe that it could have been stopped, but I want to believe that it was not stopped due to ineptitude and carelessness, not because of opportunism.

Does that make sense?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Interesting! So you think there was a similar agenda behind 9/11 as behind the bombing of the Maine?

Anything is possible. History repeats itself. There is definitely an exploitation of 9/11.

[slim 1,530]

So the US Government isn't capable of evil????

Maybe not directly, that would be too brave. But we have no problem letting other people do our dirty work for us. Plausible deniability, that's what it's all about.

Why do we support Saudi Arabia, a country with public executions, little to no womens' rights, and a violently oppressive monarchy?

Why do we save victims of ethnic cleansing.... but only if they're white?

Why do we back break-away republics that demand independance from their motherlands.... but only if they're not Muslims?

Why do we threaten a pre-emptive strike against Iran for "developing" nuclear programs, but not take action against North Korea, for "enhancing" theirs?

There's way more to the actions that the government takes (or turns a blind eye to) than what they tell you on CNN or Fox News.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Interesting! So you think there was a similar agenda behind 9/11 as behind the bombing of the Maine?

Anything is possible. History repeats itself. There is definitely an exploitation of 9/11.

True. I've heard that comparison before, and it took a while until the bombing of the Maine was linked to the US government. So, time will tell...

[slim 1,530]

Well, I agree with you in theory, Slim, but I think the question is more complicated when you're faced with the claim or the possibility that one's own government caused, or purposely allowed, or however you want to call it, an event like 9/11. Americans certainly don't have a franchise on head-in-the-sand tendencies, but it's hard to argue that it's not a major problem, especially among the segments of the population that would have the most to lose if some of this stuff ever turned out to be true.

I'm not so ignorant as to believe that 9/11 is somehow the be-all and end-all of Terrible Things That Happen to Innocent People. I do rather detest that mindset that somehow the 9/11 victims are more special, more innocent, or more heroic than the millions upon millions of people who have died for no reason at the hand of evil, power-hungry people throughout the entire history of humanity--and, yes, the American government has been responsible for some of that. I don't know why, if I can believe that our government purposely wiped out thousands of the indigenous Americans, for example, and is purposely holding captive individuals whose only crimes are likely to be being in the wrong places at the wrong times, I can't also believe that 9/11 was purposely allowed to happen. I can believe that it could have been stopped, but I want to believe that it was not stopped due to ineptitude and carelessness, not because of opportunism.

Does that make sense?

Good point pax.

The Maine, and even the Pearl Harbor bombing have been conspiracy theorized for years that the govt. had prior knowledge, but let the events happen anyway to bolster support for their cause.

I like your hope though that they do it not becuase of opportunism, but ineptitude.

I hope so too! But, I doubt it.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Interesting! So you think there was a similar agenda behind 9/11 as behind the bombing of the Maine?

Anything is possible. History repeats itself. There is definitely an exploitation of 9/11.

True. I've heard that comparison before, and it took a while until the bombing of the Maine was linked to the US government. So, time will tell...

Whether the excuses are real or not you still need one to invade. Even Hitler had to invent excuses to do what he did (Poland).

[CarolineM 0]

I was in NYC on 9/11, lost friends, spent the day covered in ashes on a friends rooftop crying after a horrific evacuation...

I still want to see the films and read the stories becuase I want to be informed. It's not like I'm looking at it only from one side. I want ALL The facts...and there are DEFINITELY Some things that don't add up...

Nothing intellectual to say I suppose, just posted this so people can know both sides.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So the US Government isn't capable of evil????

Maybe not directly, that would be too brave. But we have no problem letting other people do our dirty work for us. Plausible deniability, that's what it's all about.

Why do we support Saudi Arabia, a country with public executions, little to no womens' rights, and a violently oppressive monarchy?

Why do we save victims of ethnic cleansing.... but only if they're white?

Why do we back break-away republics that demand independance from their motherlands.... but only if they're not Muslims?

Why do we threaten a pre-emptive strike against Iran for "developing" nuclear programs, but not take action against North Korea, for "enhancing" theirs?

There's way more to the actions that the government takes (or turns a blind eye to) than what they tell you on CNN or Fox News.

Well put, slim. Well put.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

NYC acts likes it's the only city to be hit by terrorism. What gives?

[anya-D 8]

Yesterday after I watch this movie, I found another movie (I think the same one but cover all events on 9/11 including the worldtrade center) and it was very interesting..

I found it actually gives me doubt of what really going on... I' cant find that movie again today though.. but it's really interesting information (true or not)

now it gets me curious!

[Scott & Lai 12]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html