Heading into WWIII

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

This is part II to my post: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry1278925

Well Turkey made good on their threats and gave a big F-U to the US.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071024/ap_on_..._ea/turkey_iraq

published online 3 mins ago.

Turkish planes bomb rebel positions

By VOLKAN SARISAKAL, Associated Press Writer

CIZRE, Turkey - Turkish warplanes and helicopter gunships reportedly attacked positions of Kurdish rebels just inside Turkey along the border with Iraq on Wednesday, as Turkey's military stepped up its anti-rebel operations.

Civilian and military leaders discussed the scope and duration of a possible cross-border offensive — a move that Turkey's Western allies are trying to prevent.

An AP Television News cameraman saw attack helicopters and several F-16 warplanes loaded with bombs take off from an air base in the southeastern city of Diyarbakir. The warplanes and helicopter gunships bombed mountain paths used by rebels to infiltrate from neighboring Iraq, the official Anatolia news agency reported.

On Sunday, Turkish helicopter gunships penetrated into Iraqi territory and troops have shelled suspected Kurdish rebel positions across the border in Iraq, a government official said Wednesday.

U.S.-made Cobra and Super Cobra attack helicopters chased Kurdish rebels three miles into Iraqi territory on Sunday but returned to their bases in Turkey after a rebel ambush killed 12 soldiers near the border, the official said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

He also said Turkish artillery units shelled rebel positions as recently as Tuesday night but did not say which areas were targeted.

An AP Television News cameraman saw about a dozen transport helicopters fly along Mount Cudi, near the border with Iraq, on Wednesday. He saw at least one warplane fly past Cizre, a town close to the Turkish-Iraqi border.

Some 18 miles east of Cizre, a tank battalion conducted military exercises. Soldiers established checkpoints on roads while troops looked for possible land mines.

In Washington, Pentagon officials said that they were aware of the reports, but could not confirm them.

"I don't know of any Turkish airstrikes in that area today," Maj. Gen. Richard Sherlock, Joint Chiefs of Staff operational planning director, told a Defense Department news conference Wednesday.

Officials were working to try to confirm the reports but could not confirm any bombing or ground activity on either side of the Iraq-Turkey border, another official said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record.

Turkey, which has moved troops to the Iraq border, warned Iraq and Western allies on Tuesday that a large-scale incursion was imminent unless the U.S.-backed government in Baghdad takes action against the rebels. The Turkish government said there would be no cease-fire with the fighters, who want an independent region in Turkey's heavily Kurdish southeast.

About 100 red beret-wearing members of the official defense forces of Iraq's Kurdish region were headed Wednesday for a camp near the border city of Dahuk, 260 miles northwest of Baghdad.

One of them, who would only identify himself as Capt. Ziad, said his troops had been mobilized from Irbil, the capital of the autonomous Kurdish region in northern Iraq.

"We want to prevent the conflict in Turkey from coming across the border," he said.

Turkey's military and civilian leaders face growing demands at home to stage the offensive in northern Iraq, where the rebels of the Kurdistan Workers' Party — known as the PKK — rest, train and get supplies in relative safety before returning to Turkey to conduct attacks.

Gen. Yasar Buyukanit, chief of Turkey's military, canceled a visit to Israel planned for the end of this month, private CNN-Turk television reported.

A high-level delegation from Iraq was expected to visit Ankara on Thursday.

Turkish Foreign Minister Ali Babacan, returning late Tuesday from Baghdad, said, "We said that we are expecting them to come with concrete proposals and otherwise the visit will have no meaning."

Turkey has long pressed Iraq to capture and extradite rebel leaders and a senior Turkish government official said Iraqi President Jalal Talabani had told Babacan that Iraq "does not exclude extradition" of rebels.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki also has ordered the closure of all offices belonging to the PKK in Iraq and said they would not be allowed to operate in Iraqi territory. And the United States on Tuesday issued its most direct demand yet for anti-rebel measures from the government of Iraqi's effectively autonomous Kurdish region.

"We need more than words," Babacan said. "We said that preventing the PKK from using the Iraqi soil, an end to logistical support and all PKK activities inside Iraq and closing of its camps are needed. We also said its leaders need to be arrested and extradited to Turkey."

Iraq's parliament speaker on Wednesday said his country cannot control the activities of Kurdish rebels but pledged to end any logistic support to the guerrilla group and seek a peaceful solution for the current standoff with Turkey.

"When the Iraqi government becomes capable of controlling Baghdad's security, then the others can ask us to control the borders," Iraqi Parliament Speaker Mahmoud al-Mashhadani told reporters in Damascus after talks with his Syrian counterpart, Mahmoud al-Abrash.

However, he said, "this doesn't absolve us from ... a national duty not to serve as a headquarters or to support, in any form, any organization that might harm any neighboring country."

Turkey's Foreign Trade Minister Kursad Tuzmen said his country could impose economic sanctions on northern Iraq to force the Iraqi Kurdish administration to cooperate with Turkey, Anatolia reported. Turkey provides electricity to northern Iraq, and most of the food sold in markets in northern Iraq come from Turkey.

Adding to the tension is the alleged capture of eight Turkish soldiers who have been missing since Sunday's ambush.

Several newspapers and a pro-Kurdish station based in Denmark showed pictures and footage of eight missing soldiers — allegedly hostages in the hands of separatist rebels.

Turkey seems willing to refrain from a major cross-border action until at least early next month, when it is scheduled to host foreign ministers for a meeting about Iraq. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has proposed a meeting among the United States, Iraq and Turkey during the Nov. 2-3 conference in Istanbul.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is expected to go to Washington almost immediately afterward to meet with President Bush. The Turkish leader is likely to reiterate demands that the U.S.-backed government in Iraq take steps to close off supply lines to the PKK and take other measures to reduce the group's effectiveness, possibly including military action.

___

Associated Press writers Yahya Barzanji in Dahuk, Iraq and Albert Aji in Damascus, Syria contributed to this report.

Edited October 24, 2007 by OlivianWaleed

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Oops here is my original post from Oct, 19th. http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry1269170

Hope that works this time.

[AmericanGentleman 0]

Well Turkey made good on their threats and gave a big F-U to the US.

Excuse me? The PKK is a terrorist organization that neither the US nor Iraq has been able to keep from cross the Turkish border and attacking the Turkish people. Turkey is WELL within their right to defend themselves from terrorists. Or do you believe only the US has the right to go into a sovergn nation to fight terrorist?

This may seem like recent news to you but Turkey has been begging both the US and Iraq for FOUR YEARS to reign in the PKK.

[almaty 19]

And Americans wonder why quite some Turks believe America is extremely hypocritical when it talks about a global war on terrorism:

As U.S. officials confirmed that some weapons, originally given to Iraqi security forces by the American military, had been seized by Turkish authorities, the Pentagon said it had not armed and does not arm the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), which Washington emphasizes is a terrorist group.

Serial numbers on pistols and other weapons recovered in Turkey over the past year matched those distributed to Iraqi police units, The New York Times reported yesterday, quoting Pentagon officials.

Turkey has long been complaining that the PKK is using some U.S.-issued weapons, urging Washington to resolve the problem and to illuminate past cases.

This is a major problem. The US should make sure - as sure as it can possibly be - that weapons do not fall into the hands of Kurdish terrorists. Not only because the PKK is a terrorist organization (considered as such by the US as well), but also because news like this does great damage to the Turkey-American relationship. Not only does the PKK use American weapons, the US also seems to be hesitant to do something about the PKK camps in Northern Iraq. Since 1+1=2, many people believe that America is not as opposed to the PKK as it says it is.

If you declare war on all terrorist organizations, you should fight all terrorist organizations. The US is afraid to piss off the Kurds living in Northern Iraq, which is understandable, but just ignoring the problem and hoping it will go away is seldom the best path to follow. America’d better act against the PKK ASAP and make sure that it will be more difficult for the PKK to get its hands on American made weapons in the (near) future. America rightfully criticizes Iran when insurgents use Iranian made weapons. It is also completely logical for Turkey to criticize America when Kurds use American made weapons.

Bush et al. have made a lot of mistakes in their foreign policy, one of their major mistakes - with potentially huge problems in the future - is to ignore the PKK-problem in Northern Iraq.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21346171/displ...framenumber/12/ (kewl pix)

More on that case: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21448618/

While it is Turkey's right the last thing the over streched US military needs is Turkey and Kruds fighting in Iraq right now. Unless of course the US is ready for the draft.

Draft anyone? Before we invade Iran...

[doodlebug 3]

How about we stop and think WHY everyone is so PO'd at the US and look to see what we have done wrong, fess up and move on with our lives???? The answer is not always go and kill someone ya know, though sadly that is the only thing that this administration knows how to do.

[AmericanGentleman 0]

While it is Turkey's right the last thing the over streched US military needs is Turkey and Kruds fighting in Iraq right now. Unless of course the US is ready for the draft.

Draft anyone? Before we invade Iran...

First, maybe this kinda thing is EXACTLY what the US needs, for the regional neighbors of Iraq to get involved with rooting out the bad guys and establishing a functional Iraq. After all, this is what the Iraq Study Group suggested. Maybe if we stop trying to create a "Texas Part II" and let the Turks deal with the Kurd, The Saudi's deal with the Sunnis, and Iran deal with the Shiites, some stuff might get resolved.

But lets just for arguments sake say that your right, that this is the last thing the US needs. Well, that is a not nearly the same statement as saying the Turks "made good on their threats and gave a big F-U to the US". If anything, WE are giving the finger to Turkey.

[AmericanGentleman 0]

Oh and on a side note. If you wanted to end this war in 24 hours, all you would need to do is reinstate the draft. You would have 50 million soccer moms on the white house lawn with pitchforks carrying out their own Jihad.

[Nikita2Charles 32]

The scary part nowadays with the new world order, any groups, or people whose fighting against the status quo can be label a terrorist. Lot of countries where the people rised up against a dictator(who by the way got their weapon or support from the us govt) they can be lable a terrorist, it just got easier and easier to label freedom fighters or other groups that's not being heard.

From russian putting strong forces against chechna and so on, with the new world order everybody should sit back and take it as it is under a so call democracy principle who's not even being followed by the person saying it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

There goes the only thing that seemed to go somewhat well in Iraq. At the end of the day, two of our allies getting into it certainly won't help the outcome in Iraq. Least of all if one of the two is accused of harboring the very terrorists that we supposedly fighting. It's only going further downhill from here.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

I agree!

How about we stop and think WHY everyone is so PO'd at the US and look to see what we have done wrong, fess up and move on with our lives???? The answer is not always go and kill someone ya know, though sadly that is the only thing that this administration knows how to do.