how to best use the 90 days prior to marriage k-1

[steve55 0]

Using the 90 days as a trial period with somebody who gave up their whole life and family back home is treachery, IMO, or just plain selfish. One who does that is no prize.

Well then she or he doesnt have to go!!! DUh. No one is holding a gun to her head. As long as there is honesty and no deception, and it is discussed with your partner up front , and that partner understands it, then I dont get what the problem is. That may be your way of thinking but does it make it right?

Anyways, we all just sharing different opinions here

[sj5 4]

Again, the point many people miss is that the 90 days is NOT A GET TO KNOW YOU PERIOD! You should have already done that!

If anyone has serious doubts....jeeez, would it be such a stretch to FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE MARRYING before you petition your gov't for this person's admission into the country? Let alone all the upheaval to the foreign fiance.

Sorry Lisa, I couldnt disagree with you more. Most of us have no more than 2 weeks vacation per year. So thats maybe 3-5 weeks time together in 2 years? Thats nothin. Give me abreak. It MUST and NEEDS to be a get to know you period. 2-3 weeks aint enough. And please no one say,"then wait 4-5 years to fit in 6-9 weeks". Thats not realistic nor feasible. You really need to spend time together in the same environment where you will be living as a married couple. a few weeks per year just doesnt cut it. Im sorry.

Just my 2 cents worth

I met my SO last sept 11, 2005, 3trips on 2006, and one trip's in 2007<daily communication>

[steve55 0]

to Tmma, and everyone else who said the exact same thing as we did :P

Sorry Lisa and some others, but Read em and weep.

It wasnt hard to locate these EVIDENCES that some of you folks are WAY OFF. The Links are provided along with my hilighting of what is said in the link. The evidence cant be any more clear!! Even the great website visa journey clearly states that the 90 days IS FOR MAKING SURE marriage is right for both of you and not because of how long a wedding may take to plan out. Its for the girl's benefit also. One link below even goes so far as looking at the historical perspective of spousal immigration and how the 90 days was created by the US govt so that the girl can be sure its right for her too. IT IS INDEED A SORT OF FINAL GETTING TO KNOW YOU PERIOD before taking the plunge. See links below. This is not just my opinion, the notion is supported by immigration attorneys (who know the law) and visajourney .com!!

http://www.thailand-lawyer.com/visa_immigration.html

This depends entirely on your individual situation and preference. The K-1 fiancé(e) visa allows both you and your fiancé(e) the opportunity to see if you are suitable for married life in the US together. If a marriage does not occur your fiancé(e) must return to Thailand within the 90 period of the visa.

DIRECTLY FROM VISAJOURNEY.COM!!! (for godssake, the most popular visa website admits as much)

http://www.visaservice.com/k1_vs_k3.shtml

You bring your love one to the U.S. as your Fiancee, and both of you have 90 days to get married. This allows you both to get to know each other better and make a decision about whether you want to spend the rest of your lives together

http://usaimmigrationattorney.com/K-1Fianc...pousalVisa.html

You don't need to marry immediately in your lady's country or the U.S. You bring your lady to the U.S. as your fiancee, and you and your fiancee secure a 90 day courtship window to marry. This allows you both a greater opportunity to know each other and make a better decision about marriage, which for most people is a very important life decision.

http://www.ecosea.com/eco/HTM/The%20USA%20...and%20visas.htm

Unlike marrying abroad, this allows the couple to live together in the United States and the fiancee to experience what life will really be like before the marriage.

http://www.fiancee-visa.info/ (This shows WHY the 90 days was created!!)

The fiancee visa to a large extent solved, or at least greatly reduced the severity of these problems. It allowed the foreign fiancee to enter the U.S. first and to have up to 90 days to marry her American citizen fiance. If she married him within the 90 days, she could stay in the U.S. forever. If she decided that she no longer wanted to marry her fiance sponsor, she only had to depart the U.S. prior to the expiration of the 90 day period and she would still be eligible for another fiancee visa with the same or a different fiance. Also, the fiancee visa was much faster to obtain than a spousal visa.

http://www.familyliteracyinnys.org/2007/10...safiancee-visa/

It also allows her to do things like meet your family and also allows her to see if she will like it here in the United States.

SOrry Lisa dear, but it just aint happenin the way you and some others like to believe.

Edited October 25, 2007 by steve55

[steve55 0]

DIRECTLY FROM VISAJOURNEY.COM!!! (for godssake, the most popular visa website admits as much)

http://www.visaservice.com/k1_vs_k3.shtml

You bring your love one to the U.S. as your Fiancee, and both of you have 90 days to get married. This allows you both to get to know each other better and make a decision about whether you want to spend the rest of your lives together

CORRECTION -Mybad, I thought it was visa journey, but its visaservice.com, a similar visa website as visajourney

[steve55 0]

BUt, even this very website VISA JOURNEY says the following about the K-1

May allow for a "get to

know your fiance better"

period before marriage,

since the visa is good

for 90 days.

So,.....lisa, why dont you send the owners of this forum an email and correct their erroneous ways of thinking?? (LOL). he he he. Sorry babe, but the writing's on the wall,..so to speak

[Fandango 1,439]

BUt, even this very website VISA JOURNEY says the following about the K-1

May allow for a "get to

know your fiance better"

period before marriage,

since the visa is good

for 90 days.

So,.....lisa, why dont you send the owners of this forum an email and correct their erroneous ways of thinking?? (LOL). he he he. Sorry babe, but the writing's on the wall,..so to speak

Straight from USCIS....yellow and red emphasis mine

http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/A2.pdf

kthxbye!

[undeadmike 0]

Highly interesting thread. I have to say, while I do see the point of trying to get to know your fiance better in those 90 days, I strongly disagree with the general idea of...

Allow yourself to be a third party observer

looking in.

... and doing all those things to your fiance, like keylogging, checking email and possibly worse.

Ask hard questions

- Why can't you do that before you propose?

Okay, here are the problems that I have with all that:

First of all... Most people go through an extreme hardship to have a long distance relationship and even more hardship to go trough the whole visa process. Sometimes you get lucky and everything "only" takes a couple of months, sometimes one or two years. So after all that time you are going to be "a third party observer"? And basically tune your trust-level toward your fiance to zero? Utter BS. If you can really do that and your fiance doesnt care, I guess your relationship is a "little colder" than I ever want mine to be on the worst of days. So your fiance comes here after being through all that and you are going to pull a Robert De Niro/Meet the parents on her/him? Great idea.

Second... Keylogging and monitoring email. Not only is that the epitome of bad ideas, it's also a stupid idea for most people. Chances are, your fiance comes from a country that you don't even completely speak the language of. What sense does it make to monitor email? And just as a thought: You are not yet married to her/him... invading the privacy of somebody like that is not something I would call legal...(not that marrying would give you that moral right either)

And also (and more importantly): Your fiance has just left her/his home, her/his country and the life she/he has known before. There is a good chance, she/he might be homesick or second guessing herself/himself, as A LOT of people do with a normal marriage too. Enough people look in the mirror short before the actual wedding and ask themselves "Yes or No". That might not happen often, but it does. So putting yourself in the shoes of your fiance who on top of that deals with the issue of being in a completely different country. She/He might show some reservations towards the wedding towards her/his closest friends back home. There is a good chance that when you are that paranoid that you are monitoring her/his email that you will misinterpret the things you find.

Your fiance will be overwhelmed by all the things that change when she/he is in a different country, be it the US or any other. I promise you, unless she/he has been here before numerous times or longer, she/he WILL act a bit strange. That has nothing to do with you, but with normal facts of life. Your fiance is not a tourist anymore. There is a good chance that it WILL result in temporary changes of behaviour.

Third... Yes, most people don't enjoy the freedom of more than a couple of weeks vacation per year. So getting to know her/him deeply before that is a little difficult. But first of all... if she/he is really only after coming over to the USA, than she/he will be able to keep up the acting for another couple of weeks until after you are married... but oh, lets not forget... she/he has to keep acting for another TWO YEARS to not face being sent back.

Fourth... 90 days is a close thing as it is. Because of the nature of the visa process, planning a wedding on the right time is a little difficult at best. Yes, you can postpone the wedding until maybe two months have past. But seeing how the immigration authorities work I would rather get married a little earlier and file all the papers on time rather than to be in big trouble later because for some strange reason you overstepped the 90 day mark.

And lastly the well known argument: Most people would give everything to be in the USA.

While I do agree that the USA is still the most sought after target of immigration, there are easier ways to get a better life for most people in the world (and they are taking it). For example: Anybody close to Europe is likely to immigrate to Germany, France, Italy or Britain first, then go to the US. It's easier. And the countries are on par with living standards in the USA, if not higher in some areas.

Also, if you only know your fiance for two years, seeing each other 3 weeks per year and then deciding to get married... well, than even though you spent 2 years apart, you still know each other for only 6 weeks. If you decide to propose to her/him that is a gamble that YOU initiated (or accepted, in case your fiance proposed). Don't take it out on your fiance, once she/he comes over, just because you couldnt sort things out before.

Some closing words:

I am not saying one shouldn't be careful and run into a marriage blindfolded. But the same applies to any other marriage. Turning up the distrust-level only weeks before you get married is a very bad idea in my eyes that can harm a relationship. Especially one that is based on a long distance where you got to see each other only rarely.

Yes, the 90 days period gives two people some time to make sure that they know what they are getting into. But A.) It's not been invented for that (don't care what laywers and Visajourney say - they didn't invent the K1) and B.) there is a BIG difference between getting to know your fiance better and things like monitoring email, keylogging (maybe even call monitoring, how's that?) and acting like you are an immigration agent, trying to prove visa fraud.

Just my thoughts...

undeadmike

Edited October 25, 2007 by undeadmike

[undeadmike 0]

Sorry, found a mistake:

The sentence :

For example: Anybody close to Europe is likely to immigrate to Germany, France, Italy or Britain first, then go to the US. It's easier. And the countries are on par with living standards in the USA, if not higher in some areas.

Should read

immigrate to Germany, France, Italy or Britain THAN go to the US.

undeadmike

PS Why is the edit function out that fast???

[Fandango 1,439]

BUt, even this very website VISA JOURNEY says the following about the K-1

May allow for a "get to

know your fiance better"

period before marriage,

since the visa is good

for 90 days.

So,.....lisa, why dont you send the owners of this forum an email and correct their erroneous ways of thinking?? (LOL). he he he. Sorry babe, but the writing's on the wall,..so to speak

Straight from USCIS....yellow and red emphasis mine

http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/A2.pdf

kthxbye!

Oh, I forgot to add: I'm not your babe, steve55.

[Caladan 19]

There is so much to adjust to that I doubt it can be comfortably achieved within 90 days and that is certainly not what the OP was referring to.

To be fair, I think moxcamel and the OP are coming from different tangents on this. Moxcamel is concerned about the cultural transition for his fiancee and the OP is worried that his fiancee is dishonest. Two entirely different sentiments.

Having said this, the 90 day time period is useless regardless of the validity of the petitioner's concerns. Entering the K1 process is an intent to marry and you need to set systems in place before petitioning to ensure that the marriage has the best chance of success. I'm afraid that hoping your partner can adjust satisfactorily within 90 days of entering the US is missing the point. Your partner will need your support for much longer than that and sometimes for things unrelated to relocation to the States.

I think this is a good point. There's a difference between saying (as moxcamel is) 'My fiancee and I are going to take the first 60 days to ensure that our bonafide relationship survives what will be for her some intense culture shock before we marry in case either of us has second thoughts' and 'I don't know if we have a bonafide relationship and that poor ###### isn't giving up anything anyway so I'm going to keylog her first 90 days so I'm not on the hook for her and if she's not grateful I'll be on here asking if I have to pay to send her back or if I can just kick her out of my house.' The former is defensible; the latter just looks like you don't really care who the girl is because you read on the Internet that girls from that country made good wives because they're not really people, just buyable property.

[Drew and Tik 0]

Using the 90 days as a trial period with somebody who gave up their whole life and family back home is treachery, IMO, or just plain selfish. One who does that is no prize.

Well then she or he doesnt have to go!!! DUh. No one is holding a gun to her head. As long as there is honesty and no deception, and it is discussed with your partner up front , and that partner understands it, then I dont get what the problem is. That may be your way of thinking but does it make it right?

Anyways, we all just sharing different opinions here

You don't see this as selfish in any way? I know people get married for different reasons, and maybe not everyone is in love (as AmericanGentleman made a good articulation of in this thread), but to have this attitude of ME ME ME, I don't give a [#######] about her, I would have to say I feel bad for your fiancee.

[Caladan 19]

And, also.... look, people going through consulates like Manila always whine about how mean the CO's are, why they want so much evidence, yada, yada... anyone ever stop to think that one reason they're so picky might be the number of people who haven't bothered to get to know their fiancee before filing? It's a bit much to be saying on the one hand 'we need the 90 days to get to know each other' and on the other 'how dare they question whether we know each other well enough!'

[Cassie 8]

Sorry, I'm in the "K-1 visa is for fiances, not people who think they are going to get married and need the 90 days to make sure" camp.

In my humble opinion, when you give/accept the marriage proposal, you have already figured out that yes, you do want to get married, and yes, you understand what that means, and yes, you understand that it's gonna be rough settling in, and yes, you have taken the time to already get to know one another, in person and not. Jerry proposed to me once, and I told him "not yet", because I hadn't met his family yet, I didn't know what Tulsa was like, or what his life was truly like in the US. So I made a point to visit, check things out and think about whether or not I thought I could live here in the US. Once I was at peace with that particular answer, and a few other things, I was ready to accept his proposal and all that meant.

Now I know people are going to pipe up and say "well that's easy for you to say, you're from a country where it's easy to travel to the US -- no tourist visas, no travel restrictions, etc etc". You're right, I was blessed in that respect. But I don't want that point to overshadow my overall message. In reality, Jerry and I spent a total of 26 days together in person, the rest of the time we spoke incessantly. Not just about the minutiae of daily life, which is important, but purposefully asking each other questions and talking about things we knew would come up once we married and moved in together. We made sure we were on the same page in matters of faith, fiances, goals & dreams, family, etc etc. so we knew what we were getting into before this whole thing went down. I'm not saying the first couple of months were a piece of cake, but the work we put into it beforehand certainly made things easier in the long run. We got married on day 7 of the 90 day period, in a modest (20 people wedding, 80 people reception) religious ceremony with all the trimmings, and on Nov 7th we will be celebrating our 3rd anniversary.

[mox 298]

Unfortunately any real discussion in this thread is going to be stifled by the fact that there are a couple people here who are so fundamentalist in their belief that there is only one way to do it, and if you don't do it their way you are a selfish greedy ####### who uses women like kleenex. They refuse to see beyond their own experiences.

There are as many ways to enter a relationship as their are people. If two consenting adults want to "see if it's going to work out," then who the hell are we to question that? As long as they did it legally, what's the problem? Frankly I could give a ####### what the government's "intent" is with regards to the K-1 visa. The government have shown their ineptitude and poor judgment at every step of the way when it comes to immigration, so pardon me if I don't feel like their opinion about what the 90 days should be used for is worth the paper it's written on. Signing a letter of intent, with the intention of seeing if it's going to work out, is not visa fraud. Maybe it is in the strictest most puritan sense, but certainly not in a moral sense.

We are all adults. We enter into relationships as adults, and hopefully we are both honest and upfront with each other. If one or both of the partners is being dishonest, then you have bigger problems than worrying about how to use the 90 days.

[tmma 467]

Unfortunately any real discussion in this thread is going to be stifled by the fact that there are a couple people here who are so fundamentalist in their belief that there is only one way to do it, and if you don't do it their way you are a selfish greedy ####### who uses women like kleenex. They refuse to see beyond their own experiences.

There are as many ways to enter a relationship as their are people. If two consenting adults want to "see if it's going to work out," then who the hell are we to question that? As long as they did it legally, what's the problem? Frankly I could give a ####### what the government's "intent" is with regards to the K-1 visa. The government have shown their ineptitude and poor judgment at every step of the way when it comes to immigration, so pardon me if I don't feel like their opinion about what the 90 days should be used for is worth the paper it's written on. Signing a letter of intent, with the intention of seeing if it's going to work out, is not visa fraud. Maybe it is in the strictest most puritan sense, but certainly not in a moral sense.

We are all adults. We enter into relationships as adults, and hopefully we are both honest and upfront with each other. If one or both of the partners is being dishonest, then you have bigger problems than worrying about how to use the 90 days.

I suggest you and your fiancee say the bolded [ and especially the underlined parts] parts at the interview. I am sure the CO will understand .

Bending the official, lawful intent of the K-1 90 days to suit individual circumstances does not make it right; wether YOU happen to think the rules are reasonable or not......

Edited October 25, 2007 by tmma