how to best use the 90 days prior to marriage k-1

[Fandango 1,439]

But to imply that somebody must not love or is not dedicated to their partner because they're going to give their partner the opportunity to adjust is at best naive, and at worst mean spirited.

Talk about taking out of context! hahahahaha

This conversation has NEVER been about giving the partner the 'opportunity to adjust'. This is about people thinking it's ok to treat their fiancees like chattel. To scrutinize them from the second they get here to 'make sure' the USC is not going to get 'burned'. It's deplorable to think that way IMO....especially AFTER the fiancee has given up EVERYTHING to get here.

I said this all yesterday.

But ok, b@lls to the wall time...and I'm never one to mince words so I'll say this: any USC who treats his/her partner like this....like the OP has suggested....is NOT dedicated to his/her partner...more dedicated to getting what they 'ordered'. Any person who doesn't treat his/her partner with the respect that (s)he deserves as ANY HUMAN BEING DESERVES...any person that can JUSTIFY a 'little bit of privacy invasion'....is a sad pathetic & broken excuse for a person and needs a therapist, not a spouse.

Edited October 24, 2007 by LisaD

[archie07 0]

There are practical matters to attend to in the 90 days allowed for marriage, such as marriage arrangements and licenses. It is not designed for but is unfortunately too often used for a trial period. You don't sign letter of intent to try out a relationship for 90 days. You sign letters of intent to marry.

The period is actually too short for many to plan and have big traditional weddings because the dates can't be firm until the visa is in hand and couples understandably want to be reunited as soon as possible.

Using the 90 days as a trial period with somebody who gave up their whole life and family back home is treachery, IMO, or just plain selfish. One who does that is no prize.

Great posts, guys! It's really comforting to see that there are those who agree with me & Tmma!

For a while I started to think we fell into an alternate universe

[bakofoil 27]

There is so much to adjust to that I doubt it can be comfortably achieved within 90 days and that is certainly not what the OP was referring to.

To be fair, I think moxcamel and the OP are coming from different tangents on this. Moxcamel is concerned about the cultural transition for his fiancee and the OP is worried that his fiancee is dishonest. Two entirely different sentiments.

Having said this, the 90 day time period is useless regardless of the validity of the petitioner's concerns. Entering the K1 process is an intent to marry and you need to set systems in place before petitioning to ensure that the marriage has the best chance of success. I'm afraid that hoping your partner can adjust satisfactorily within 90 days of entering the US is missing the point. Your partner will need your support for much longer than that and sometimes for things unrelated to relocation to the States.

Edited October 24, 2007 by babblesgirl

[Zee Bee 61]

I have to agree with LisaD, tmma, Caladan, pushbrk on this one.

K-1 visa = fiance(e) visa, not a "please leave your life/family/job/friends behind in your country, come here, and lets see if we can stomach each other and get along and then get married" visa.

How can anyone justify making someone else leave their life behind, on the promise of marriage, only to say that they are going to use the 90 days to test the waters and see if they get along? It is unfair, unreasonable and selfish. How about if the tables were turned?

And then what happens if you find out that you were not compatible, pack him/her up and put them on the next plane back home and say "Sorry I made you give up everything for nothing. Have a nice life"!?!?!?!?!?!

#######?!?!?

Besides the fact that there is that simple statement that we all signed stating that we intend to marry within the 90 days. How much more clarification does someone need about the purpose of the visa?

And then getting them here and suggesting spying on them...don't even get me started. How much more disrespectful can you be towards someone you say you are going to marry?

Geez.

[AmericanGentleman 0]

In my opinion, the first 90 days should be focused on teaching your spouse how to drive in this country. You are a prisoner if you can not drive here. What alot of people do not realize is in most other countrys people are far far far more pedestrian. People walk to work, walk to the store, and walk to see familiy and friends. And the cities and public transportation are designed to accomodate this. Here is the US, it is not like that. We live far away from work,stores, and friends for the most part, making driving a necessity. You spouse is already going to be feeling very isolated, so being able to get out and drive on their own is a huge deal.

[archie07 0]

There is so much to adjust to that I doubt it can be comfortably achieved within 90 days and that is certainly not what the OP was referring to.

To be fair, I think moxcamel and the OP are coming from different tangents on this. Moxcamel is concerned about the cultural transition for his fiancee and the OP is worried that his fiancee is dishonest. Two entirely different sentiments.

Having said this, the 90 day time period is useless regardless of the validity of the petitioner's concerns. Entering the K1 process is an intent to marry and you need to set systems in place before petitioning to ensure that the marriage has the best chance of success. I'm afraid that hoping your partner can adjust satisfactorily within 90 days of entering the US is missing the point. Your partner will need your support for much longer than that and sometimes for things unrelated to relocation to the States.

Seattle needs to ruturn to Cebu, resolve his issues, then use the 90 day period to plan his wedding and not scrutinize his fiancee. My brother had issues also, I put him on a plane last month for manila, he came back good to go. Simple as that.

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

hmmm.. The big issue I see with the Key Logging, is two fold..

#1 - It shows lack of trust. I'm in the Computer industry, and when an individual asks me about key logging to monitor a spouse, I always tell them I'm not a divorce attorney, because once you've hit that point, you're on a downward slide very quickly.

#2 - I expect Ann to have conversations with family and friends in the Philippines that are not going to be 100% Positive about me and the USA. She needs somewhere to discuss her frustrations, fears, concerns, and emotions, other than just with me. I don't anticipate her transition to the USA being effortless and without frustration, loneliness, and homesickness. But we also both anticipate those facts, and are prepared to deal with them. So, if I was key logging, I'd just be stealing her relief, and adding to my concerns...Not a healthy situation.

The 90 days to me seems short more from a logistical standpoint. Getting here, getting settled, changing my blank bacehlor pad walls into "a good arrangement", planning a simple wedding, meeting family, and trying to work, will make 90 days go very fast. (Plus adding in buying a rice cooker, proper pot and pans, finding the right kinds of rice and fish...)

Of course, having known Ann for almost 3 years now, we know each others emotions, strengths, weaknesses, fears, finances, and of course she knows how ugly I am..

If we had known each other for only a few months, and then started down the Visa Journey, maybe I would have all of those worries, but then I'd be planning to slow down, and make sure before I bring her here.

you can also add to the keylogging the legal aspect too

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...;hl=key++logger

[freecake 0]

mmm yeah, I sort of agree with the OPs advice for SOME people, as we have seen cases of fraud on this site... but I'm certain it's not valid advice to all of us.

[mox 298]

This conversation has NEVER been about giving the partner the 'opportunity to adjust'. This is about people thinking it's ok to treat their fiancees like chattel. To scrutinize them from the second they get here to 'make sure' the USC is not going to get 'burned'. It's deplorable to think that way IMO....especially AFTER the fiancee has given up EVERYTHING to get here.

I can't speak for the OP. I agree that scrutinizing your partner, especially outright spying on them, is one of the worst ways to start a relationship.

However, I think we keep talking past each other. So let me wave the white flag and try this again:

As I mentioned previously, my move to the UK was about as easy a transition to another country a person could ever hope to make. I spent 3 wonderful years there, and if I could go back I would do it in a heartbeat. On the other hand, when I moved to Saudi Arabia, it was like moving to another planet. Nothing could have prepared me for it, and I wound up staying for much less time than I had previously thought. It was just too much of a cultural shift for me. It wasn't just the language, it was pretty much *everything.* (And being an atheist, I wasn't real enamored with a lot of the fundamental decisions that were forced on people, especially women.)

So this is where I'm coming from. If you're from the UK or Canada, your transition to the US is going to be much easier than if you're from Cambodia or Egypt. It's nice to think that love is the only thing we need, but that's just not the case. Russians, for example, are brought up in social circles called a "mir," that they depend on from birth to death, especially if you come from a rural community like my fiance. We really don't have anything like that here in the US, except maybe the Amish communities, and that's not really an apt comparison either. It's not necessarily a physical community, but more of a very tightly knit social network. When they're pulled out of that social structure, it's like losing an appendage. Other cultures, especially Asian and Middle Eastern, have even stronger bonds.

My fiance comes from a rural community. Her family is very important to her. The fact that she's decided to pull up stakes and move 6,000 miles away from everything she knows is an incredible testament to how strong our relationship is. So given that, I like to think that my fiance and I will be happy together for the rest of our lives. I mean, duh, that's why I'm going through this whole agonizing process. But I have to be realistic too, and look at what I'm asking her to give up. It possible, although improbable, that she won't be able to do it. I wish the K1 gave us more time, but I plan on using most of those 90 days to give her as much opportunity as I can to make sure this is the life she wants to live. I am extremely confident that she will choose to stay, but if I didn't give her that opportunity I would feel as if I were being selfish.

And I'm confident that if I were to explain what I just said to an immigration officer at an interview, we would be approved.

[AmericanGentleman 0]

Well said Mox....the only time your should spy on your fiance is when she is taking a shower! ~^..^~ And even then, it should be with her knowledge that your doing it tee hee

[Seattle2Cebu 0]

I never said the 90 days was a get to know time.... Ive known her over a year...

I think its a good time to double check thats all

I had a very bad experience in the past and am given to moments of paranoia at times

hence the key logger statement, which was one of those things i might say but not do..

im sure no one else has ever said something that they didnt actually intend to do...

I am not going into the gory details of my bad k-1 experience, but I will relate

the story of a fellow here that I know.. His story is a little worse than mine..

His wife had their baby and then took off without notice back to her home country

never to be seen again... seems she just wanted an american baby.. nice ....

leaving behind heartbroken grandparents and father... and he didnt see it coming..

neither did I.. but I wasnt looking either.. I wish I didnt have trust issues, its not fun.

how do you trust completely when you are totally decieved? I dont know.

Let's be clear here: the 90 days is not a get to know you time.

If you need that time to get to know your fiance, you shouldn't have petitioned yet!

There's nothing wrong with the 90 days being a "get to know if your fiance is going to be able to adapt to a new life" period. Some people simply can't do it, as much as they love their partner. It's heartbreaking, but it's better to find out before signing papers than after.

[Seattle2Cebu 0]

for those of you who seem to think the foreign fiance is giving up everything...

lets see what are they giving up? some fiances are coming from poor nations... they are giving

up incredibly low pay, bad housing, etc etc etc to make the terrible sacrifice to come to america.

geez.. thats a tough one.

there are many foreign fiances that arent giving up much... and they will do and say anything to get here..

thats just the truth.. most of the people on this forum wont have this problem..

This conversation has NEVER been about giving the partner the 'opportunity to adjust'. This is about people thinking it's ok to treat their fiancees like chattel. To scrutinize them from the second they get here to 'make sure' the USC is not going to get 'burned'. It's deplorable to think that way IMO....especially AFTER the fiancee has given up EVERYTHING to get here.

I can't speak for the OP. I agree that scrutinizing your partner, especially outright spying on them, is one of the worst ways to start a relationship.

However, I think we keep talking past each other. So let me wave the white flag and try this again:

As I mentioned previously, my move to the UK was about as easy a transition to another country a person could ever hope to make. I spent 3 wonderful years there, and if I could go back I would do it in a heartbeat. On the other hand, when I moved to Saudi Arabia, it was like moving to another planet. Nothing could have prepared me for it, and I wound up staying for much less time than I had previously thought. It was just too much of a cultural shift for me. It wasn't just the language, it was pretty much *everything.* (And being an atheist, I wasn't real enamored with a lot of the fundamental decisions that were forced on people, especially women.)

So this is where I'm coming from. If you're from the UK or Canada, your transition to the US is going to be much easier than if you're from Cambodia or Egypt. It's nice to think that love is the only thing we need, but that's just not the case. Russians, for example, are brought up in social circles called a "mir," that they depend on from birth to death, especially if you come from a rural community like my fiance. We really don't have anything like that here in the US, except maybe the Amish communities, and that's not really an apt comparison either. It's not necessarily a physical community, but more of a very tightly knit social network. When they're pulled out of that social structure, it's like losing an appendage. Other cultures, especially Asian and Middle Eastern, have even stronger bonds.

My fiance comes from a rural community. Her family is very important to her. The fact that she's decided to pull up stakes and move 6,000 miles away from everything she knows is an incredible testament to how strong our relationship is. So given that, I like to think that my fiance and I will be happy together for the rest of our lives. I mean, duh, that's why I'm going through this whole agonizing process. But I have to be realistic too, and look at what I'm asking her to give up. It possible, although improbable, that she won't be able to do it. I wish the K1 gave us more time, but I plan on using most of those 90 days to give her as much opportunity as I can to make sure this is the life she wants to live. I am extremely confident that she will choose to stay, but if I didn't give her that opportunity I would feel as if I were being selfish.

And I'm confident that if I were to explain what I just said to an immigration officer at an interview, we would be approved.

[Seattle2Cebu 0]

hmm and that would be why I have paid thousands of dollars in medical care for her parents ?

im a real heartless ####### for sure.

But to imply that somebody must not love or is not dedicated to their partner because they're going to give their partner the opportunity to adjust is at best naive, and at worst mean spirited.

Talk about taking out of context! hahahahaha

This conversation has NEVER been about giving the partner the 'opportunity to adjust'. This is about people thinking it's ok to treat their fiancees like chattel. To scrutinize them from the second they get here to 'make sure' the USC is not going to get 'burned'. It's deplorable to think that way IMO....especially AFTER the fiancee has given up EVERYTHING to get here.

I said this all yesterday.

But ok, b@lls to the wall time...and I'm never one to mince words so I'll say this: any USC who treats his/her partner like this....like the OP has suggested....is NOT dedicated to his/her partner...more dedicated to getting what they 'ordered'. Any person who doesn't treat his/her partner with the respect that (s)he deserves as ANY HUMAN BEING DESERVES...any person that can JUSTIFY a 'little bit of privacy invasion'....is a sad pathetic & broken excuse for a person and needs a therapist, not a spouse.

[LoriLawless 0]

Sorry you had a bad experience, and you're right, some people will come here by any means possible, even if that's deceiving someone in the process.

However, I wouldn't be giving advice that I wouldn't take myself IE, monitoring someone's email. That's just wrong on every level. The way you posted that, made you look like you condoned it.

After what you went through, it's natural to have trusting issues, but don't let one bad egg spoil the bunch. You have to get back on the horse after a fall, or you'll never have a good relationship with anyone now or in the future.

The bottom line of your original post though, you said to use the 90 days to "monitor, look for signs" etc.

What I am saying, is that 90 days isn't really going to make a difference in the scheme of things, and that's not what that amount of time should be used for. You should be looking for signs and all of that before you even consider filing for the K1.

[Fandango 1,439]

This conversation has NEVER been about giving the partner the 'opportunity to adjust'. This is about people thinking it's ok to treat their fiancees like chattel. To scrutinize them from the second they get here to 'make sure' the USC is not going to get 'burned'. It's deplorable to think that way IMO....especially AFTER the fiancee has given up EVERYTHING to get here.

I can't speak for the OP. I agree that scrutinizing your partner, especially outright spying on them, is one of the worst ways to start a relationship.

However, I think we keep talking past each other. So let me wave the white flag and try this again:

As I mentioned previously, my move to the UK was about as easy a transition to another country a person could ever hope to make. I spent 3 wonderful years there, and if I could go back I would do it in a heartbeat. On the other hand, when I moved to Saudi Arabia, it was like moving to another planet. Nothing could have prepared me for it, and I wound up staying for much less time than I had previously thought. It was just too much of a cultural shift for me. It wasn't just the language, it was pretty much *everything.* (And being an atheist, I wasn't real enamored with a lot of the fundamental decisions that were forced on people, especially women.)

So this is where I'm coming from. If you're from the UK or Canada, your transition to the US is going to be much easier than if you're from Cambodia or Egypt. It's nice to think that love is the only thing we need, but that's just not the case. Russians, for example, are brought up in social circles called a "mir," that they depend on from birth to death, especially if you come from a rural community like my fiance. We really don't have anything like that here in the US, except maybe the Amish communities, and that's not really an apt comparison either. It's not necessarily a physical community, but more of a very tightly knit social network. When they're pulled out of that social structure, it's like losing an appendage. Other cultures, especially Asian and Middle Eastern, have even stronger bonds.

My fiance comes from a rural community. Her family is very important to her. The fact that she's decided to pull up stakes and move 6,000 miles away from everything she knows is an incredible testament to how strong our relationship is. So given that, I like to think that my fiance and I will be happy together for the rest of our lives. I mean, duh, that's why I'm going through this whole agonizing process. But I have to be realistic too, and look at what I'm asking her to give up. It possible, although improbable, that she won't be able to do it. I wish the K1 gave us more time, but I plan on using most of those 90 days to give her as much opportunity as I can to make sure this is the life she wants to live. I am extremely confident that she will choose to stay, but if I didn't give her that opportunity I would feel as if I were being selfish.

And I'm confident that if I were to explain what I just said to an immigration officer at an interview, we would be approved.

You and I are clearly talking about two different things.

No one's making anyone stay despite their wishes.....I mean there's nothing to stop any foreign spouse from returning to his/her country. 90 days, 180 days...it's all immaterial imo when it comes to 'adjustment time'. Some adjustments don't actually come until the foreign spouse gets the greencard/work permit/AP....til they start feeling like less of a prisoner & start feeling more self-reliant. Delaying the marriage to 'test the waters' is selfish and quite cowardly, I'm afraid....because regardless of whether the fiance totally adjusts or not....it's not going to be done and dusted in 90 or 180 days. And they showed their detrimental reliance....reliance on the promise to marry to their detriment by giving up everything they know....so the LEAST anyone can do is make good on the promise. If the marriage doesn't work out later because of a failure to adjust....well, that's nothing like what the OP is afraid of, is it?

Futhermore, it's really silly to think that 1-89 days is going to suss any adjustment issues. If both parties are committed to make it work, I should hope that 89 days is not the threshold to do a runner.

I understand UK/Canada/et al are different...but there ARE adjustment issues even there. It's not all a cake walk there either....for instance...I lived there for 3 years and there were adjustment issues that we dealt with for quite some time. . Those issues didn't make me any less committed to my partner....and I certainly wouldn't have appreciated him coming from the standpoint of 'We'll give it the max time to marry until I can be sure you are going to adjust well here cos I don't want the added hassle of getting a divorce'

And going back to the self-reliance thing...my own adjustment issues started to subside the day I rode the bus by myself for the first time.

When our SOs get here...it's a ticker counting down. And the time we waste on the front end could mean everything. That AOS should be going in ASAP. Our SOs are essentially twisting in the wind without GCs, so the sooner they get them, the better!