how to best use the 90 days prior to marriage k-1

[Fandango 1,439]

Truth be told, 90 days of living with someone hardly scrathces the surface of getting to know someone and/or their true intentions. That being said, I think it is wrong to do stuff like snooping your fiance's emails back home. All your really doing when you do that is trying to validate and/or justify your own paranoia.

"What if he/she is only marrying me so he/she can come to the US?"....Probably the biggest fear from people in our cluster right? Well...what is really wrong with that reason? Does that automatically mean that the marriage will never be a good one? I think not. The bold truth is that we marry because we want a better life for ourselves. Would you think it such a bad thing if a single mom goes to single bars in hopes of finding a man to marry to help her raise her kids? Is it such a bad thing that a man might go to the same bar in hopes of finding a wife to take care of his house and to bear his children? Doesnt every woman dream of marrying a prince and becoming a princess? The initial reasons are all the same, we look for a partner to better and enrich our lives. There is no shame in it.

Modern culture seems stuck on the notion that we must be in love to marry. Historically, love was considered a bi-product of a good marriage and not an initial requirement for a marriage. The love that is generated from a good marriage is what truely keeps it all together. And that love can come regardless of the initial reason you got married. Maybe the reason America has a 53% divorce rate is because we base our marriages too much on love and not what generates that love.

Me and my fiance are extremely fond of each other, but we are not deeply in love yet. I could easily say we love each other, but we are both rationalists. We realize that it love, or the notion of love, at such an early stage of a relationship is more of a state of mind rather than a tried and tested cement between us. So we do not put on any airs to act otherwise. We have discussed this in great length and we have decided to base our marriage on respect and place our trust in each other. We both are 100% confident that we will grow to love each other deeply because we are going to build our marriage on a greater foundation than emotions.

I do not mean to discount any of you who are marrying and basing the foundation on your marriage on love. I only wanted to illustrate that it is ok to have a variety of reasons to initally marry. It is what you do in that marriage that will make it valid or a sham.

I don't personally agree with not marrying for love, but I do appreciate your honesty here, and I find it very refreshing!!!!

Thank you for being bold enough to be honest.

[Drew and Tik 0]

Well unless someone can dig the actual intent of the 90 days out of Google or something, I don't think the argument of why there is a 90 day period is going to be settled. I think it can be inferred though, since 90 days is a pretty significant period.

You think 90 days is a significant period of time?

I think what pushbrk said is close to hitting it on the nail. It is very difficult to plan a wedding and get everyone together when you have no idea when your visa will be issued or when your fiancee will be able to be with you. I plan on (hopefully) getting married in less than a year and I don't even know when Tik will be able to move here. I'm sure after she is finally issued the visa many months will have passed and we'll want to be together as soon as possible...that means we have less than 90 days + the time b/t issuance of the visa and her flight to New York to plan a wedding!

[Fandango 1,439]

nm I misread!

Edited October 24, 2007 by LisaD

[John and Luda 0]

Well unless someone can dig the actual intent of the 90 days out of Google or something, I don't think the argument of why there is a 90 day period is going to be settled. I think it can be inferred though, since 90 days is a pretty significant period.

You think 90 days is a significant period of time?

I think what pushbrk said is close to hitting it on the nail. It is very difficult to plan a wedding and get everyone together when you have no idea when your visa will be issued or when your fiancee will be able to be with you. I plan on (hopefully) getting married in less than a year and I don't even know when Tik will be able to move here. I'm sure after she is finally issued the visa many months will have passed and we'll want to be together as soon as possible...that means we have less than 90 days + the time b/t issuance of the visa and her flight to New York to plan a wedding!

I couldn't take anymore of this and had to chime in. I totally agree with Drew and pushbrk, the 90 days isn't designed for you to figure out if you really want to get married or nor not. That decision should have already been made prior to filing the petition. The letter of intent to marry you sign is just that - you're telling the U.S. government you both have a bona fide intent to marry (within 90 days). Maybe you should try writing your letter stating "after a 90 day trial basis with my fiance' we may or may not get married." See how far that goes with the government. Also, lying to them about your true intent is not only unethical, but could also be considered fraud.

[Caladan 19]

Let's be clear here: the 90 days is not a get to know you time.

If you need that time to get to know your fiance, you shouldn't have petitioned yet!

There's nothing wrong with the 90 days being a "get to know if your fiance is going to be able to adapt to a new life" period. Some people simply can't do it, as much as they love their partner. It's heartbreaking, but it's better to find out before signing papers than after.

But what the OP is describing isn't an adjustment period, or about having second thoughts, or using those 90 days to make sure she's comfortable. It's about using those 90 days to scrutinize her to make sure she really likes him and isn't using him, not about making her comfortable. If you don't know your partner well enough to know if you're being used, that's perhaps a sign you're not ready to file.

What's next? Locking her in the house and refusing to file for the green card until he's sure? Funny all those women ending up here asking for help, he's holding their papers over their head, he took away her passport... Just good ol' getting to know ya behavior, right?

I realize that it's not easy to meet someone overseas and it's often very expensive to go and visit, but that's not a reason to use the fiancee visa time as a keylogging snooping time. That's maybe a reason not to 'date' someone overseas if you can't afford to get to know them. That's not a reason to ask someone to give up their entire life (remember, she's a person, not just a potential bride) to come here.

The 90 days is there just for logistics, to give a couple time to get here, get a marriage license, arrange a date, and file the paperwork without dropping out of status. It's the standard amount of time for tourist visas, and that's probably the reason it's 90 days.

[Fandango 1,439]

Well unless someone can dig the actual intent of the 90 days out of Google or something, I don't think the argument of why there is a 90 day period is going to be settled. I think it can be inferred though, since 90 days is a pretty significant period.

You think 90 days is a significant period of time?

I think what pushbrk said is close to hitting it on the nail. It is very difficult to plan a wedding and get everyone together when you have no idea when your visa will be issued or when your fiancee will be able to be with you. I plan on (hopefully) getting married in less than a year and I don't even know when Tik will be able to move here. I'm sure after she is finally issued the visa many months will have passed and we'll want to be together as soon as possible...that means we have less than 90 days + the time b/t issuance of the visa and her flight to New York to plan a wedding!

I couldn't take anymore of this and had to chime in. I totally agree with Drew and pushbrk, the 90 days isn't designed for you to figure out if you really want to get married or nor not. That decision should have already been made prior to filing the petition. The letter of intent to marry you sign is just that - you're telling the U.S. government you both have a bona fide intent to marry (within 90 days). Maybe you should try writing your letter stating "after a 90 day trial basis with my fiance' we may or may not get married." See how far that goes with the government. Also, lying to them about your true intent is not only unethical, but could also be considered fraud.

to Tmma, and everyone else who said the exact same thing as we did :P

[bakofoil 27]

Me and my fiance are extremely fond of each other, but we are not deeply in love yet. I could easily say we love each other, but we are both rationalists. We realize that it love, or the notion of love, at such an early stage of a relationship is more of a state of mind rather than a tried and tested cement between us. So we do not put on any airs to act otherwise. We have discussed this in great length and we have decided to base our marriage on respect and place our trust in each other. We both are 100% confident that we will grow to love each other deeply because we are going to build our marriage on a greater foundation than emotions.

I do not mean to discount any of you who are marrying and basing the foundation on your marriage on love. I only wanted to illustrate that it is ok to have a variety of reasons to initally marry. It is what you do in that marriage that will make it valid or a sham.

I think you make a valid point here. Love can sometimes be a state of mind. I have had enough relationships (not that many though! ) to know that feelings of love can be part of the euphoria and buzz of those first few months with someone and not necessarily because you are in love. Love is complex and individual and there is so much more to a lasting successful relationship than 'being in love'. Personally I would rather work on the bricks and mortar of a relationship knowing the cement is there rather than work on falling in love after meeting someone who meets all my practical needs, if that makes sense.

I don't want this to sound like I am discounting your reasoning either, because I can sense from your words that you and your partner have a deep respect for one another and that you have a practical and rational explanation for not basing your feelings on love alone. You are of course completely correct that your actions during the marriage are what will make or break it and respect for one another is probably the key factor in making it a success.

You can bet your azz that if you said it was a ''trial period' or 'cooling off' period, that you'd never have gotten approved. I think you're being a bit semantical in nature here...because while it's not a problem to marry at the end of the 90, it's not designed for the purpose of 'cooling off'. I mean focking hell, your fiance just got here and you're gonna 'cool off'????

Well unless someone can dig the actual intent of the 90 days out of Google or something, I don't think the argument of why there is a 90 day period is ..going to be settled. I think it can be inferred though, since 90 days is a pretty significant period.

And fine, I'll concede that "cooling off" was a poor choice of words, although quite frankly I don't think it's all that far off. MANY couples in the US these days live together before marrying, just to make sure they're doing the right thing. Call it cooling off, or a trial period or whatever. It happens, and although it may not be everyone's visions of rainbows and unicorns, it works for a lot of people. If both people are in agreement that they will use the 90 days in this manner, who are we to question it? If, on the other hand, only one partner sees it this way, then that's a problem.

In any case, I'll try this again: moving to a new country away from your friends and your family is a HUGE deal. Some people who had the best of intentions simply cannot deal with that shock. They love their partners, but ultimately cannot deal with the new life. It happens, and it happens a lot. There's no shame in taking the time available to make sure it's going to work. OTOH, some people just "know" and that's cool too.

I notice the most vehement opposition is coming from westerners, with the notable exception of pushbrk. It's one thing to move from Canada or Britain (where I lived for 3 years) to the US. Try moving from Malaysia or Russia or Japan. That's practically a move to another planet.

Why am I hearing that it's the 'big bad gov'ts fault for making me marry a stranger'? Big deal...it's practically another planet...there is plenty of opportunity for the USC to go there....you know, to take responsibility for their own relationship instead of b!tching about gov't restraints.

Again...you say 'cooling off' was a bad choice of words, then you say 'let's call it a cooling off'! That's so funny. But it's NOT a cooling off period...and furthermore...if the period was 180 days...I'm sure many would abuse it for the 'trial' aspect. Hey, if it doesn't work, ship her back and get a new one, eh?

But why a USC would delay getting their foreign partner on the path to a greencard is astounding.

You know what? If people have doubts and they still bring their partners over....they know what's what. Let's not even pretend that every marriage is full of love in the traditional sense....There are many lonely USCs and many desperate foreign SOs. And each benefits from the union. So hey...everyone's happy I suppose....but people need to realize what they have and not try putting lipstick on a pig making it be something else. If you're marrying someone you don't know....and you've uprooted that person from everything in her life....well 90 days isn't going to make a helluva lot of a difference, really. 'oh I didn't know her when she came, but 89 days later, we're soulmates!'

I mean really. Buyer Beware and all that jazz.....

Don't use the 80s to justify marrying a stranger.

And don't take me out of context. I'm saying that the K-1 dates back to the '80's, when many of the assumptions that are being made in this argument didn't apply.

And btw, did you actually READ your letter of intent that you signed?

No, I just signed it. What's it say?

Don't be snide. It doesn't suit the conversation.

Everything you said here makes complete sense Lisa. It irks me somewhat that people appear to be taking this process so lightly.

I am particularly amused though by the lipstick on a pig remark.

[Caladan 19]

Exactly. It's not a glorified tourist visa.

You can get married toward the end of 90 days if you want, but if you go into the interview and say 'Well, I'm not sure if I want to marry her because I don't actually know if I can trust her not to use me for a green card but I have 90 days to return her if it doesn't work out' I'd bet that doesn't end with a 'sure sir enjoy the 90 days.'

We married around day 60 or 61 of the visa. C. moved down that early because we had to attend (useless) marriage prep classes with the church. We used the time to finish up wedding planning and to set up the apartment.

And no one should say the only basis for marriage must be Western-style love. But keylogging isn't something you do to someone you know, respect, and trust.

[Fandango 1,439]

Exactly. It's not a glorified tourist visa.

You can get married toward the end of 90 days if you want, but if you go into the interview and say 'Well, I'm not sure if I want to marry her because I don't actually know if I can trust her not to use me for a green card but I have 90 days to return her if it doesn't work out' I'd bet that doesn't end with a 'sure sir enjoy the 90 days.'

We married around day 60 or 61 of the visa. C. moved down that early because we had to attend (useless) marriage prep classes with the church. We used the time to finish up wedding planning and to set up the apartment.

And no one should say the only basis for marriage must be Western-style love. But keylogging isn't something you do to someone you know, respect, and trust.

There is a 20% restocking fee for all defective returns, mind you

*waves* to Babblesgirl! ty

Edited October 24, 2007 by LisaD

[LoriLawless 0]

Exactly. It's not a glorified tourist visa.

You can get married toward the end of 90 days if you want, but if you go into the interview and say 'Well, I'm not sure if I want to marry her because I don't actually know if I can trust her not to use me for a green card but I have 90 days to return her if it doesn't work out' I'd bet that doesn't end with a 'sure sir enjoy the 90 days.'

We married around day 60 or 61 of the visa. C. moved down that early because we had to attend (useless) marriage prep classes with the church. We used the time to finish up wedding planning and to set up the apartment.

And no one should say the only basis for marriage must be Western-style love. But keylogging isn't something you do to someone you know, respect, and trust.

There is a 20% restocking fee for all defective returns, mind you

Ok that, and the pig with lipstick comment -

Edited October 24, 2007 by LoriLawless

[Caladan 19]

Hey, he's the one acting like she isn't a person with her own wants and desires, just property, not me.

[Fandango 1,439]

Hey, he's the one acting like she isn't a person with her own wants and desires, just property, not me.

I am in total agreement, C....my sarcasm wasn't directed at you.

Babblesgirl....I'm on a roll, eh?

[eric_and_teresa 10]

But what the OP is describing isn't an adjustment period, or about having second thoughts, or using those 90 days to make sure she's comfortable. It's about using those 90 days to scrutinize her to make sure she really likes him and isn't using him, not about making her comfortable. If you don't know your partner well enough to know if you're being used, that's perhaps a sign you're not ready to file.

What's next? Locking her in the house and refusing to file for the green card until he's sure? Funny all those women ending up here asking for help, he's holding their papers over their head, he took away her passport... Just good ol' getting to know ya behavior, right?

I realize that it's not easy to meet someone overseas and it's often very expensive to go and visit, but that's not a reason to use the fiancee visa time as a keylogging snooping time. That's maybe a reason not to 'date' someone overseas if you can't afford to get to know them. That's not a reason to ask someone to give up their entire life (remember, she's a person, not just a potential bride) to come here.

The 90 days is there just for logistics, to give a couple time to get here, get a marriage license, arrange a date, and file the paperwork without dropping out of status. It's the standard amount of time for tourist visas, and that's probably the reason it's 90 days.

I agree

Edited October 24, 2007 by eric_and_teresa

[mox 298]

Why am I hearing that it's the 'big bad gov'ts fault for making me marry a stranger'?

Um...I don't know. It's certainly not what I said or implied.

Big deal...it's practically another planet...there is plenty of opportunity for the USC to go there....you know, to take responsibility for their own relationship instead of b!tching about gov't restraints.

Before I visited Russia, I talked with three different people who had been there, and also hung out on a lot of internet forums to learn as much as I could before my visit. I was as well educated as I possibly could be. And when I got there I discovered that absolutely nothing had prepared me for so much of it. So you can tell her all about her new home until you're blue in the face, but nothing is going to prepare her for it until she's actually on the ground.

Again...you say 'cooling off' was a bad choice of words, then you say 'let's call it a cooling off'! That's so funny.

You keep quoting me out of context. That's so funny.

But it's NOT a cooling off period...and furthermore...if the period was 180 days...I'm sure many would abuse it for the 'trial' aspect. Hey, if it doesn't work, ship her back and get a new one, eh?

Maybe. But if someone has that mentality anyway, then it really doesn't matter if it's 180 days or 18 days.

But why a USC would delay getting their foreign partner on the path to a greencard is astounding.

The green card is such a little thing when compared to being truly happy. A green card is useless if the beneficiary goes back to their country because they can't handle the transition.

If you're marrying someone you don't know....and you've uprooted that person from everything in her life....well 90 days isn't going to make a helluva lot of a difference, really. 'oh I didn't know her when she came, but 89 days later, we're soulmates!'

I'm not sure why you keep going back to this "if you're marrying someone you don't know" argument. I agree with you, I would not advise someone to marry someone they don't know.

Don't be snide. It doesn't suit the conversation.

I wasn't being snide, I was trying to inject some levity into the conversation. Note the smiley.

Look, people need to do what feels right to them. Some of us are going to go straight from the airport to the courhouse, and others are going to wait until 11:59pm on day 89. Some people need time, others just know. Some of those people who "just know" are going to be divorced within 6 months, while some of those who were unsure will be happy together for the rest of their lives. And vice versa. There is no one size fits all solution, and thank jeebus that the K1 is flexible enough to allow us the multitude of options that it does. But to imply that somebody must not love or is not dedicated to their partner because they're going to give their partner the opportunity to adjust is at best naive, and at worst mean spirited.

Edited October 24, 2007 by moxcamel

[bakofoil 27]

Thanks to Lisa, there is one sure way of proving the USC is not using the 90 days as a cooling off period and it doesn't involve complicated keylogging techniques.

Just ask them before you file the K1 "Now are you sure you're not trying to put lipstick on a pig?'

On a serious note, If I thought for a minute that my fiance was using the K1 opportunity as a trial-period then I wouldn't be with him. Is there some lack of comprehension here on what processes the beneficiary has to go through in order to come to the US on a marriage-based visa? People give up homes, careers, families for this. You have to be damn sure it's what you want, IMO.