Considering DCF in Thailand: General DCF Eligibility and Concerns

[Jao Moragoat 0]

Hi there wise community!

Quick BG info:

I'm 24 year old Thai American born and raised in USA domociled in Thailand for 5+ years. I'm the proud father of an 18 month old Thai American son who is now here living in Phuket with his mom, grandparents, relatives, me, etc. Never met his US relatives before--him and I both being dual nationals would have no problems jumping on planes between Thailand and USA for family/life purposes, but his mom is a Thai which causes the biggest burden in the case of any emergency or when we ultimately decide to give USA life a try... got to go through with the immigration process to at least get her legal to truly be a family (considering my family / bg is mostly in USA which my son deserves and needs to be in his life) and not have to worry when it comes time that our son get a basic quality education in the USA.

I know the basics that a DCF eligibility differs depending on consulate, etc. Thailand's requirements need to be long term legal resident--being a dual Thai American national who has been in Thailand without leaving four years straight (was back in USA for 4 months in 2003, prior to which I was in Thailand for 19 months, prior which I was born, raised and grew up in the USA for 18 years), I don't see why I wouldn't be considered a legal resident of Thailand...

Other big requirements in general for DCF or any visa so it seems is tax returns and established US domicile, which I need to straighten out before I can even consider doing a DCF or K1/K3 for that matter.

Lived in Thailand, getting by on peanuts teaching English and freelance writing. For the first part that I was in Thailand, I was a student so most of the little I did make went to that. The other half was making ends meet for me and the kid and his mom (We are not officially registered married until we explore all the options kept on the table until we are sure) Understand if I am to pursue K3 or CR1 via DCF, will have to get married first, though still leaving it open if in fact K1 would be better for us.

So anyway, my questions/concerns are regarding

I. Tax returns : Haven't filed anything since coming and living here 2002, but than again have only made some 8-9,000 USD annum each year working to make ends meet first as a student, than as a breadwinner for gf and son. (Thailand wages for someone without a degree are quite low for international standards, but more than enough to live on here) I only realized now that I might have been supposed to file tax returns on world wide income and thus need a few years to show for the visa process, and am now worried. When doing the I-864 and/or I-134 forms, will I be in trouble for not having any tax forms to show or is there a way around this, or need I make belated filings or ??? Please advise what is best for my situation and how to go about it if in fact I do need to make belated filings, etc.

And then there is...

II. Joint sponsorship: As I intend to migrate with my gf-ultimately wife and son at the same time and not plan to part with them for a year alone in the USA trying to satisfy the work/living requirements waiting remotely for them and the visa process to end,

Instead, I will ask family to act as initial joint sponsor for the visa process, which wouldn't be a problem as they easily meet the 125% poverty. My main concern is though on filling out the affidavits of support, as I understand that only the petitioner must file the affidavit and joint sponsors file separate forms. As I would have no guaranteed continuing income on return to the USA, my affidavits would have 0$ income filled in there meaning that my joint sponsor (parents) would essentially be sole sponsors meeting the 125% on their forms alone. That's not to say upon arriving in the USA, I wouldn't get my ###### together and take care of my family, just that I need do so with them at my side in safety and security, not thousands of miles around the world, etc. So is this method okay? Meaning the petitioners Affidavits having n/a or 0$ income??? If so or not please share experiences or professional opinions, knowledge, etc.

and perhaps my biggest issue of all will be

III. reestablishing domicile. As I haven't been in the USA since December 2003 and haven't any house, car, bank account or job in USA, domicile will need to be reestablished somehow. Perhaps just going back for a month to open a bank account and renew/reapply for drivers license there, things like this I had in mind. Will that be enough or are there other small things I could do--mailing address, post office box, etc. ?? If my son were older, sure I could register him in a US school, but he will only be two or three at the proposed / intended time of migration so might be too premature for that.

Okay, so I realize this is a lot of info and I don't expect an immigration lawyer to jump in here and freely tackle everything, just that others who have relevant bg/insight/experience/knowledge on any/all of my concerns to contribute somehow as I've searched / surfed hours on end to address such issues/concerns but to no avail.

Such questions covered will prove invaluable not only for me but for others in the future who aren't affluent and considering being an expat oversees for any given time and what to consider if a family comes into play.

When I do go with the process, I want to be sure I'm fully ready and prepared first and certainly others have been in similar situations or at least know the process well enough to give pointers or warnings and other things to consider.

Thanks multiplied by a billion squared in advance.

[Ning 619]

Hi there wise community!

Quick BG info:

I'm 24 year old Thai American born and raised in USA domociled in Thailand for 5+ years. I'm the proud father of an 18 month old Thai American son who is now here living in Phuket with his mom, grandparents, relatives, me, etc. Never met his US relatives before--him and I both being dual nationals would have no problems jumping on planes between Thailand and USA for family/life purposes, but his mom is a Thai which causes the biggest burden in the case of any emergency or when we ultimately decide to give USA life a try... got to go through with the immigration process to at least get her legal to truly be a family (considering my family / bg is mostly in USA which my son deserves and needs to be in his life) and not have to worry when it comes time that our son get a basic quality education in the USA.

I know the basics that a DCF eligibility differs depending on consulate, etc. Thailand's requirements need to be long term legal resident--being a dual Thai American national who has been in Thailand without leaving four years straight (was back in USA for 4 months in 2003, prior to which I was in Thailand for 19 months, prior which I was born, raised and grew up in the USA for 18 years), I don't see why I wouldn't be considered a legal resident of Thailand...

Other big requirements in general for DCF or any visa so it seems is tax returns and established US domicile, which I need to straighten out before I can even consider doing a DCF or K1/K3 for that matter.

Lived in Thailand, getting by on peanuts teaching English and freelance writing. For the first part that I was in Thailand, I was a student so most of the little I did make went to that. The other half was making ends meet for me and the kid and his mom (We are not officially registered married until we explore all the options kept on the table until we are sure) Understand if I am to pursue K3 or CR1 via DCF, will have to get married first, though still leaving it open if in fact K1 would be better for us.

So anyway, my questions/concerns are regarding

I. Tax returns : Haven't filed anything since coming and living here 2002, but than again have only made some 8-9,000 USD annum each year working to make ends meet first as a student, than as a breadwinner for gf and son. (Thailand wages for someone without a degree are quite low for international standards, but more than enough to live on here) I only realized now that I might have been supposed to file tax returns on world wide income and thus need a few years to show for the visa process, and am now worried. When doing the I-864 and/or I-134 forms, will I be in trouble for not having any tax forms to show or is there a way around this, or need I make belated filings or ??? Please advise what is best for my situation and how to go about it if in fact I do need to make belated filings, etc.

And then there is...

II. Joint sponsorship: As I intend to migrate with my gf-ultimately wife and son at the same time and not plan to part with them for a year alone in the USA trying to satisfy the work/living requirements waiting remotely for them and the visa process to end,

Instead, I will ask family to act as initial joint sponsor for the visa process, which wouldn't be a problem as they easily meet the 125% poverty. My main concern is though on filling out the affidavits of support, as I understand that only the petitioner must file the affidavit and joint sponsors file separate forms. As I would have no guaranteed continuing income on return to the USA, my affidavits would have 0$ income filled in there meaning that my joint sponsor (parents) would essentially be sole sponsors meeting the 125% on their forms alone. That's not to say upon arriving in the USA, I wouldn't get my ###### together and take care of my family, just that I need do so with them at my side in safety and security, not thousands of miles around the world, etc. So is this method okay? Meaning the petitioners Affidavits having n/a or 0$ income??? If so or not please share experiences or professional opinions, knowledge, etc.

and perhaps my biggest issue of all will be

III. reestablishing domicile. As I haven't been in the USA since December 2003 and haven't any house, car, bank account or job in USA, domicile will need to be reestablished somehow. Perhaps just going back for a month to open a bank account and renew/reapply for drivers license there, things like this I had in mind. Will that be enough or are there other small things I could do--mailing address, post office box, etc. ?? If my son were older, sure I could register him in a US school, but he will only be two or three at the proposed / intended time of migration so might be too premature for that.

Okay, so I realize this is a lot of info and I don't expect an immigration lawyer to jump in here and freely tackle everything, just that others who have relevant bg/insight/experience/knowledge on any/all of my concerns to contribute somehow as I've searched / surfed hours on end to address such issues/concerns but to no avail.

Such questions covered will prove invaluable not only for me but for others in the future who aren't affluent and considering being an expat oversees for any given time and what to consider if a family comes into play.

When I do go with the process, I want to be sure I'm fully ready and prepared first and certainly others have been in similar situations or at least know the process well enough to give pointers or warnings and other things to consider.

Thanks multiplied by a billion squared in advance.

When I answered this guy I got a smart xxx responce . I am not suprised he isnt getting any responces at all. He told me my opinion was just negitive . Really? Wise community? He has no respect for what we have gone thru & how it may help him.

Fill your own glass smart xxx.

[Jao Moragoat 0]

When I answered this guy I got a smart xxx responce . I am not suprised he isnt getting any responces at all. He told me my opinion was just negitive . Really? Wise community? He has no respect for what we have gone thru & how it may help him.

Fill your own glass smart xxx.

If you've been rejected, mad because you couldn't qualify for DCF--bent over by Thai lawyers and USCIS or whatever is your problem, I don't see what you're trying to accomplish by ruining my day.

You sent a message which was critical, and I thanked you for the angle as it's always good to read critical--albeit misleading points of view...What I didn't particularly like about your tone of the message aside from being somewhat inaccurate and subjective, was your negative pessimism (which is always a good catalyst anyway to rightfully succeed despite)

(charging that Thai lawyer have lying written in their DNA and that I'm screwed without hiring an American lawyer just because you decided to hire some local lawyer to hold your hand and it didn't work out and that without tax returns, there would be a zero percent chance of getting visa, and your point about maintaining citizenship--sounded more like ballacks from someone having a bad hair day rather than helpful, objective, and accurate info--though thanks again for taking the time to send me the message)

btw, citizenship as far as law and expats are concerned in this sense is not something to be 'maintained' but moreso, the issue of domicile i.e. an expat that stays overseas for 30 years not filing taxes or voting in the us or what not would never lose his/her citizenship for lack of maintaining, etc.(Yes I know the laws first hand regarding citizenship as I'm a dual-citizen of Thailand and USA and had to work hard for many years to secure it even though it was my birth right) I think what you were intending to infer was maintaining domocile, not citizenship

As I haven't been on US soil for solid 4 years, etc. as mentioned, I do have an issue to reestablish domicile and I fully acknowledge that. I imagine it wouldn't require much more than going back for a short time to get an address / bank accounts, etc. established, but would rather hear from someone with first hand experience before I conclude on the domicile--my biggest issue.

I know that some of your info /advice is inaccurate-misleading information because I've already heard from two different sources that in place of tax returns, a letter explaining why one didn't file for tax returns, etc. was accepted and visas granted--not to mention countless of other expats who advised against hiring lawyers if in fact one knows how to read / do paperwork as most lawyers simply are paid to read and follow detailed instructions that are already available for petitioners in the first place.

As far as the sources in Thailand who have gone around the tax return issue as well as joint (sole) sponsor...

Read for yourself here

Keep in mind, this was only for Thailand so I'm sure it's been done elsewhere which I was hoping to verify from others with this thread.

No, I don't know everything, but refuse to take it bending over when someone says 'It can't be don' 'impossible' 'you're doomed' or anything along those lines. My experience has always showed that such negative approaches to communication in fact hold no weight or validity in the real world, unless in fact one were to easily accept such defeat...

[Dakine 26]

Just did a DCF for a friend in the Philippines.

His kids were also USC.

Don't know about Thailand but in PI one of the main problems is establishing Domicle and back taxes.

First thing for you is to get married. Second is to file back taxes and establish domicle.

He was lucky and inherited some land in the US. At the same time he wasn't required to file taxes as he is a disabled vet and he just wrote a letter stating why he wasn't required.

He went back to US and got a mailing address and bank accounts.

He didn't use a joint sponsor but we considered it. His newly acquired land pulled him thru. Plus USEM is advising Americans who live in Mindanao to get out!

Took about 6 months but made it.

Easy to file back taxes. Check more on establishing domicle!

If you have Joint sponsor. No problem.

[Jao Moragoat 0]

Thanks Haole,

Apparently, I may be able to get around filing back taxes with a letter if I can legitimize everything being a student here and all...I'm really at borderline as far as income and the circa 8000 $ anum limit set for being exempt from filing. For my first years as a student, even my gross income teaching English part time / writing freelance was under the limit, but recently the Thai baht has gotten stronger on the dollar and thus my income is more in dollars than before which might throw me over by pennies if it is still 8000 USD... Either way, I hope being a student and having a dependent (my Thai American son) would be enough for the letter when I do proceed with the process.

But as you said, biggest thing will be reestablishing domicile, which I will likely just need to get back and get bank accounts, etc. Have family to back me up for the joint sponsorship, so not worried about that.

If in fact I do need to file back taxes, is it an expensive ordeal (without a CPA or lawyer) considering I'd have to do it from oversees?

Thanks a bunch

[Ning 619]

When I answered this guy I got a smart xxx responce . I am not suprised he isnt getting any responces at all. He told me my opinion was just negitive . Really? Wise community? He has no respect for what we have gone thru & how it may help him.

Fill your own glass smart xxx.

If you've been rejected, mad because you couldn't qualify for DCF--bent over by Thai lawyers and USCIS or whatever is your problem, I don't see what you're trying to accomplish by ruining my day.

You sent a message which was critical, and I thanked you for the angle as it's always good to read critical--albeit misleading points of view...What I didn't particularly like about your tone of the message aside from being somewhat inaccurate and subjective, was your negative pessimism (which is always a good catalyst anyway to rightfully succeed despite)

(charging that Thai lawyer have lying written in their DNA and that I'm screwed without hiring an American lawyer just because you decided to hire some local lawyer to hold your hand and it didn't work out and that without tax returns, there would be a zero percent chance of getting visa, and your point about maintaining citizenship--sounded more like ballacks from someone having a bad hair day rather than helpful, objective, and accurate info--though thanks again for taking the time to send me the message)

btw, citizenship as far as law and expats are concerned in this sense is not something to be 'maintained' but moreso, the issue of domicile i.e. an expat that stays overseas for 30 years not filing taxes or voting in the us or what not would never lose his/her citizenship for lack of maintaining, etc.(Yes I know the laws first hand regarding citizenship as I'm a dual-citizen of Thailand and USA and had to work hard for many years to secure it even though it was my birth right) I think what you were intending to infer was maintaining domocile, not citizenship

As I haven't been on US soil for solid 4 years, etc. as mentioned, I do have an issue to reestablish domicile and I fully acknowledge that. I imagine it wouldn't require much more than going back for a short time to get an address / bank accounts, etc. established, but would rather hear from someone with first hand experience before I conclude on the domicile--my biggest issue.

I know that some of your info /advice is inaccurate-misleading information because I've already heard from two different sources that in place of tax returns, a letter explaining why one didn't file for tax returns, etc. was accepted and visas granted--not to mention countless of other expats who advised against hiring lawyers if in fact one knows how to read / do paperwork as most lawyers simply are paid to read and follow detailed instructions that are already available for petitioners in the first place.

As far as the sources in Thailand who have gone around the tax return issue as well as joint (sole) sponsor...

Read for yourself here

Keep in mind, this was only for Thailand so I'm sure it's been done elsewhere which I was hoping to verify from others with this thread.

No, I don't know everything, but refuse to take it bending over when someone says 'It can't be don' 'impossible' 'you're doomed' or anything along those lines. My experience has always showed that such negative approaches to communication in fact hold no weight or validity in the real world, unless in fact one were to easily accept such defeat...

Amazing that you read all that into a simple responce I sent. I just gave you an opinion based on my experiance. I am sorry I wasted my time & it wont happen again.

The US Embassy said in refrence to Thai lawyers they had experiance with that they were "all incapable of tell the truth & should be put out of business & we would see that that was done if we had the power to do so".

You also assume that I have filed DCF & had may problems with that. No. I did not file DCF. No I am not having any more diffuculty than everyone else here .

Dont waste my time again.

[Kang Lang 7]

good luck to you jao, while i have nothing to help you in terms of answers i do have a q for you. i have loads of thai friends who have immigrated here as well of course as my husband and all that wei have read indicates that thailand does not recognize dual citizenship. do you have 2 passports?

thanks and again good luck to you

[Dakine 26]

Thanks Haole,

Apparently, I may be able to get around filing back taxes with a letter if I can legitimize everything being a student here and all...I'm really at borderline as far as income and the circa 8000 $ anum limit set for being exempt from filing. For my first years as a student, even my gross income teaching English part time / writing freelance was under the limit, but recently the Thai baht has gotten stronger on the dollar and thus my income is more in dollars than before which might throw me over by pennies if it is still 8000 USD... Either way, I hope being a student and having a dependent (my Thai American son) would be enough for the letter when I do proceed with the process.

But as you said, biggest thing will be reestablishing domicile, which I will likely just need to get back and get bank accounts, etc. Have family to back me up for the joint sponsorship, so not worried about that.

If in fact I do need to file back taxes, is it an expensive ordeal (without a CPA or lawyer) considering I'd have to do it from oversees?

Thanks a bunch

I had a CPA do mine and it only cost a couple hundred bucks. I'm sure your family or friends can find one here for you.

[Dakine 26]

Thanks Haole,

Apparently, I may be able to get around filing back taxes with a letter if I can legitimize everything being a student here and all...I'm really at borderline as far as income and the circa 8000 $ anum limit set for being exempt from filing. For my first years as a student, even my gross income teaching English part time / writing freelance was under the limit, but recently the Thai baht has gotten stronger on the dollar and thus my income is more in dollars than before which might throw me over by pennies if it is still 8000 USD... Either way, I hope being a student and having a dependent (my Thai American son) would be enough for the letter when I do proceed with the process.

But as you said, biggest thing will be reestablishing domicile, which I will likely just need to get back and get bank accounts, etc. Have family to back me up for the joint sponsorship, so not worried about that.

If in fact I do need to file back taxes, is it an expensive ordeal (without a CPA or lawyer) considering I'd have to do it from oversees?

Thanks a bunch

I had a CPA do mine and it only cost a couple hundred bucks. I'm sure your family or friends can find one here for you.

I gave CPA Limited Power of Attormey and I didn't have to sign or do anything. Easy in this day of Hi tech. He emailed the 1040s and I OKed them and he filed the electronically.

[thaihome 0]

good luck to you jao, while i have nothing to help you in terms of answers i do have a q for you. i have loads of thai friends who have immigrated here as well of course as my husband and all that wei have read indicates that thailand does not recognize dual citizenship. do you have 2 passports?

thanks and again good luck to you

Though Thailand does not recognize dual citizenship, there is no law forbidding it either.

I know at least 15 people, adults and children, that have Thai and western country passports. They all only use Thai passport enter and depart Thailand, other passport used for virtually all other travel.

TH

[Jao Moragoat 0]

good luck to you jao, while i have nothing to help you in terms of answers i do have a q for you. i have loads of thai friends who have immigrated here as well of course as my husband and all that wei have read indicates that thailand does not recognize dual citizenship. do you have 2 passports?

thanks and again good luck to you

In response to your question about my passport(s), please see

http://www.thaiskale.com/journal/thai-amer...ssport-in-mail/

Lets put it this way, if Thailand forbid dual passports-nationality, a lot of 'important' people in Thai society would be above the law. Its against Thai custom, as you know to be any more specific on this, at least in public...

There was a time several years ago where the people at Thai embassy in Washington DC were misinformed about US department of State's stance on dual nationality, claiming that when I prove I had Thai nationality, being over 18, I would have to choose nationalities, but this IS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. I later had no such issues proving so in Thailand.

Thailand government would not force one to choose loyalty in this day in age in nearly all circumstances... As a Thai American in USA, you have nothing to worry about. To confirm this, simply renew your passport at the LA or Chicago consulates, as well as the Thai embassy in DC, who make the application via THailand MFA in Bangkok--in the view of Thai authority, you should not have anybody give you hassle (granted applicable fees are paid), unless in fact the particular officer / bureaucrat were misinformed about American laws (or law in general), which if in the case, use these references:

Thai Nationality Act

and

US department of State on Dual nationality

Note how both laws clearly state that the only true way to lose one's citizen/national rights (as far as the supreme courts are concerned) is if one coherently, willingly and intent-fully renounced citizenship before the proper authorities.

Thus no matter what any misinformed/uneducated official, bureaucrat may tell you, know the law is on your side and no one can force you to choose between Thai and American nationality in nearly all circumstances...The exceptions I could foresee would be if National Security was a factor, which as we can see is always above the law i.e martial law, patriot act, etc. 99 percent of Thai Americans have no worries over dual nationality. If you are a secret spy for one of the governments to the dismay of the other government, this I cannot guaruntee that you would have no issues..

That said, Good luck

btw, Thai folks in the USA reading this, if any of you want to help another Thai American out and guaruntee me a job/salary stateside in writing to help out with my domicile issue, don't hesitate to email me..

Cheers

[Kang Lang 7]

ok thanks for all the speedy replies, i do understand that you must be a thai citizen to own land correct? i realise you may own a home/condo etc. but not land unless you are a thai citizen?