Can we have a philosophical (not religious) talk about religion?

[Peikko 1,575]

Old testament totally different from the New. Jesus came to experience what it was like to be a person, after that time God hasn't intervened (at least to the best of my knowledge) Correct me if I am wrong though, because I am not a Christian scholar.

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

everyone needs to believe in something. i believe i'll have another beer.

[Jasman0717 9]

everyone needs to believe in something. i believe i'll have another beer.

Move over, I'll join you

[Logres 0]

That is your belief, and it is fine with me.

I don't believe anything......... but a God who allows such suffering to others is evil......... do you believe a good God allowed 911 to happen, and why?

I am wondering how you came to this premise? We were all left here, to do what we wish and make the best of things.

So is God on his holidays forevermore afetr the 7th day?

Free will for all people.

God does not interfere with that which happens on earth because 'he' gave each individual the free will to make their own decisions. If 'he' were to intervene here on earth then someone's free will is automatically compromised. Free will is essential because otherwise people are just God's puppets which to my understanding, was not what 'he' wanted when he called about creation.

There really is no necessity to believe in anything more evil than people, some of whom do things that result in terrible harm to other people. The 'pain' that results from the actions of humankind is in many ways to me more easy to explain than those that are a result of natural phenomenons.

Natural disasters are the result of how the world works and in fact in some ways that is harder to understand. Why would a super being, a creator who is all powerful, create the world/universe in such a way as to allow for the multitude of natural phenomenon that can harm both mankind and animals?

That being said, I don't believe in God so my opinion is probably not relevant.

Un derstood, so why do people pray to God if he is skiing in the Alpine?

Tool alert!

Agreed, I did not make the Alpine post myself........... happy to put my name to most other things..........

[Logres 0]

Although He gave us free wills, He has the power to intervene . Example: God hardened and softened the heart of Pharoh as well as softened the heart of King Artaxerxes.

Why didn't he intervene during 911 then? did he want those people to burn?

That is your belief, and it is fine with me.

I don't believe anything......... but a God who allows such suffering to others is evil......... do you believe a good God allowed 911 to happen, and why?

To me it's like asking why a mass murderer's mother let their child kill. Usually the mother has no control over what their grown child does or does not do, they can only hope the child makes the right decisions. Mother's of murderers do not get thrown in jail with their child for giving birth to them. So why do we blame God? He did not create evil and He does not condone it. Whether ppl partake of it is their personal problem. That's my view on it.

Ageed. So we have just both agreed that God is not all-powerful.

Prayer is way of talking honestly to the one you trust most, Yourself!

That is a religous, not philosophical point....... not luck though

[Logres 0]

Have you read C.S. Lewis' The Problem of Pain?

Great question, yes I have......... I answered it in my dissertation....... "To what extent do the proofs of C.S Lewis defend the existence of God?"......

[Peikko 1,575]

Not concluded, that god does not use his power to intervene is not an argument that he doesn't have it.

[Logres 0]

Not concluded, that god does not use his power to intervene is not an argument that he doesn't have it.

So you have proof he has?

[Jenn! 918]

To me it's like asking why a mass murderer's mother let their child kill. Usually the mother has no control over what their grown child does or does not do, they can only hope the child makes the right decisions. Mother's of murderers do not get thrown in jail with their child for giving birth to them. So why do we blame God? He did not create evil and He does not condone it. Whether ppl partake of it is their personal problem. That's my view on it.

Ageed. So we have just both agreed that God is not all-powerful.

How do you figure? Just because he does not intervene does not mean that he can't intervene. Intervention would change the future, possibly causing harm (for example, let's say that one of the victims of 9/11 would have gone on to kill someone in a car accident). God wouldn't save one person at the expense of another.

[Logres 0]

To me it's like asking why a mass murderer's mother let their child kill. Usually the mother has no control over what their grown child does or does not do, they can only hope the child makes the right decisions. Mother's of murderers do not get thrown in jail with their child for giving birth to them. So why do we blame God? He did not create evil and He does not condone it. Whether ppl partake of it is their personal problem. That's my view on it.

Ageed. So we have just both agreed that God is not all-powerful.

How do you figure? Just because he does not intervene does not mean that he can't intervene. Intervention would change the future, possibly causing harm (for example, let's say that one of the victims of 9/11 would have gone on to kill someone in a car accident). God wouldn't save one person at the expense of another.

Fair point! so why pray to him?

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

everyone needs to believe in something. i believe i'll have another beer.

Move over, I'll join you

Dayum Jim get off me!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

To me it's like asking why a mass murderer's mother let their child kill. Usually the mother has no control over what their grown child does or does not do, they can only hope the child makes the right decisions. Mother's of murderers do not get thrown in jail with their child for giving birth to them. So why do we blame God? He did not create evil and He does not condone it. Whether ppl partake of it is their personal problem. That's my view on it.

Ageed. So we have just both agreed that God is not all-powerful.

How do you figure? Just because he does not intervene does not mean that he can't intervene. Intervention would change the future, possibly causing harm (for example, let's say that one of the victims of 9/11 would have gone on to kill someone in a car accident). God wouldn't save one person at the expense of another.

Fair point! so why pray to him?

By asking that question, you're assuming that we all understand praying to God to mean the same thing when actually you'd be surprised by the different understandings of prayer. What is your idea about prayer?

[Jenn! 918]

To me it's like asking why a mass murderer's mother let their child kill. Usually the mother has no control over what their grown child does or does not do, they can only hope the child makes the right decisions. Mother's of murderers do not get thrown in jail with their child for giving birth to them. So why do we blame God? He did not create evil and He does not condone it. Whether ppl partake of it is their personal problem. That's my view on it.

Ageed. So we have just both agreed that God is not all-powerful.

How do you figure? Just because he does not intervene does not mean that he can't intervene. Intervention would change the future, possibly causing harm (for example, let's say that one of the victims of 9/11 would have gone on to kill someone in a car accident). God wouldn't save one person at the expense of another.

Fair point! so why pray to him?

That's exactly why I don't.

[Nagishkaw 510]

We were created for the purpose to have a relationship with the Almighty. Prayer is communication. How can you have a relationship with anyone without communication? Prayer isn't giving God a wish list, nor is it asking Him to bless this or bless that. Through communication, that is how we get to know who He is, and that is exactly what He wants us to do.

[Caladan 19]

I am not going to get into this too much (because on a site where we had 15 pages of 'cars are too weapons/no they're not' I don't need the headache), but this is one of the areas that I am interested in in philosophy generally. And the topic of my summer course (the other reason I don't want to get into it too much. )

Professional opinion:

1) Every convincing response relies heavily on the value of human free will.

2) Every convincing response relies heavily on the idea that God cannot give someone free will and then control them.

3) This area of philosophy is one of the most fun because it's at once one of the most technical and one of the most relevant.

4) There are no easy answers. If your answer is a 'gotcha teehee silly Christians', it's probably wrong.

5) An intellectual solution is not the same as a spiritual one.

6) As far as philosophical problems go, this is one that's a lot closer to solved than others.

7) Any successful theodicy will employ a number of strategies.