Ohio school gunman kills self, wounds 4

[natty bumppo 297]

If a married couple want to raise a child they shoud first under go some test be required to have a license. You need a drivers license to drive why not have a license to care for a child sense no one is responsible enough now in todays world to raise a child.

or parents who own guns, get a proof check by the authorities, check the house to make sure guns are not available for the kids...

Not necessary. Just hold the parents wholly responsible. If a teenager kills or hurts someone using the unsecured weapon of a parent, the parent shall stand trail and be prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law just as if (s)he pulled the trigger. And not just parents. Any gun owner who makes available - knowingly or not - his/her firearm to a minor and that minor commits a crime with that weapon, hold the owner to account. Plain and simple. Folks will be locking them guns up right quick.

alterations to address another means of death to others ... a very frequent means of causing death and injury too

No alterations needed. Least of all those that make no sense at all. The difference being that a car is a means of transportation, a gun is a means to hurt or kill. Just in case it escaped you there for a moment. I wouldn't liken a car accident with a kid grabbing daddy's gun to shoot himself some teachers. You might, I sure won't.

so teens in cars don't kill .... irresponsibility is not with teens and cars ? ...

Are you saying a car is not a means to kill ? Wow ... guess you need to research vehicular homicide ..

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If a married couple want to raise a child they shoud first under go some test be required to have a license. You need a drivers license to drive why not have a license to care for a child sense no one is responsible enough now in todays world to raise a child.

or parents who own guns, get a proof check by the authorities, check the house to make sure guns are not available for the kids...

Not necessary. Just hold the parents wholly responsible. If a teenager kills or hurts someone using the unsecured weapon of a parent, the parent shall stand trail and be prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law just as if (s)he pulled the trigger. And not just parents. Any gun owner who makes available - knowingly or not - his/her firearm to a minor and that minor commits a crime with that weapon, hold the owner to account. Plain and simple. Folks will be locking them guns up right quick.

alterations to address another means of death to others ... a very frequent means of causing death and injury too

No alterations needed. Least of all those that make no sense at all. The difference being that a car is a means of transportation, a gun is a means to hurt or kill. Just in case it escaped you there for a moment. I wouldn't liken a car accident with a kid grabbing daddy's gun to shoot himself some teachers. You might, I sure won't.

so teens in cars don't kill .... irresponsibility is not with teens and cars ? ...

Are you saying a car is not a means to kill ? Wow ... guess you need to research vehicular homicide ..

You can kill a person with a pencil - the issue is in the desire to do it. Guns facilitate intentional homicide - cars do not. Vehicular homicide is a means to make stupid people who drive drunk, for example, pay the same price as someone who committed a pre-meditated crime. The simple fact is if you want to go on a kill-crazy rampage you'll have an easier time of it with a couple of semi-automatics than a '95 Camaro.

Rather like the ridiculous comments by Prince Philip who equated banning firearms in the aftermath of Dunblane with banning cricket bats. Because a cricket bat in the hands of a balding, flabby 200lb weakling is as effective a killing tool as 2 9mm semi-automatics in the hands of a mentally disturbed teenager.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If a married couple want to raise a child they shoud first under go some test be required to have a license. You need a drivers license to drive why not have a license to care for a child sense no one is responsible enough now in todays world to raise a child.

or parents who own guns, get a proof check by the authorities, check the house to make sure guns are not available for the kids...

Not necessary. Just hold the parents wholly responsible. If a teenager kills or hurts someone using the unsecured weapon of a parent, the parent shall stand trail and be prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law just as if (s)he pulled the trigger. And not just parents. Any gun owner who makes available - knowingly or not - his/her firearm to a minor and that minor commits a crime with that weapon, hold the owner to account. Plain and simple. Folks will be locking them guns up right quick.

alterations to address another means of death to others ... a very frequent means of causing death and injury too

No alterations needed. Least of all those that make no sense at all. The difference being that a car is a means of transportation, a gun is a means to hurt or kill. Just in case it escaped you there for a moment. I wouldn't liken a car accident with a kid grabbing daddy's gun to shoot himself some teachers. You might, I sure won't.

so teens in cars don't kill .... irresponsibility is not with teens and cars ? ...

Are you saying a car is not a means to kill ? Wow ... guess you need to research vehicular homicide ..

You really don't get it, do you?

I'll walk you through this slowly step by step:

1) What is the purpose of a car?

2) What is the purpose of a gun?

Do you see it now?

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

If a married couple want to raise a child they shoud first under go some test be required to have a license. You need a drivers license to drive why not have a license to care for a child sense no one is responsible enough now in todays world to raise a child.

or parents who own guns, get a proof check by the authorities, check the house to make sure guns are not available for the kids..

what!!?!?!?!?!?

you want me to have cops inside my house to see if my guns are secure?

my dad had over 100 guns scattered throughout our house when i was a teen. i had the knowledge that if i touched one without his permission i was, in his words, "going to meet every blade of grade personally out in the back yard."

i do not need the cops playing big brother in my house!

Do you think that the owner of the guns used in the attack (presumably a parent) might have had the same attitude?

About your dad with the 100+ guns - would you have been able to lay hands on one of those if you were so inclined as to want one?

more than likely i doubt the parent even noticed it missing.

yes, i could have laid my hands on about 50 of them if i wanted to. but the promise from my dad outweighed any reason i'd ever had for doing so

My question then - is if you were to have taken a gun and used it for something like what this kid has done, would that be responsible or irresponsible gun ownership, in your view?

i'd call it good - a clear cut punishment from dad if i did so. and they'd not have to worry about a trial cause my dad probably would beat me to death.

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

I have never been around guns or ever held a gun in my life never had interest in them well except for my own lol but anywho guns should be outlawed if people cant handle the responsibility of owing 100+ guns. lol

Wait a minute... what?

If someone can't handle the responsibility of owning over 100 guns, then guns should be outlawed? How does that make sense?

it's eric, not surprising

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If a married couple want to raise a child they shoud first under go some test be required to have a license. You need a drivers license to drive why not have a license to care for a child sense no one is responsible enough now in todays world to raise a child.

or parents who own guns, get a proof check by the authorities, check the house to make sure guns are not available for the kids..

what!!?!?!?!?!?

you want me to have cops inside my house to see if my guns are secure?

my dad had over 100 guns scattered throughout our house when i was a teen. i had the knowledge that if i touched one without his permission i was, in his words, "going to meet every blade of grade personally out in the back yard."

i do not need the cops playing big brother in my house!

Do you think that the owner of the guns used in the attack (presumably a parent) might have had the same attitude?

About your dad with the 100+ guns - would you have been able to lay hands on one of those if you were so inclined as to want one?

more than likely i doubt the parent even noticed it missing.

yes, i could have laid my hands on about 50 of them if i wanted to. but the promise from my dad outweighed any reason i'd ever had for doing so

My question then - is if you were to have taken a gun and used it for something like what this kid has done, would that be responsible or irresponsible gun ownership, in your view?

i'd call it good - a clear cut punishment from dad if i did so. and they'd not have to worry about a trial cause my dad probably would beat me to death.

I'm wondering because if your dad relied on the "trust factor", that perhaps the parent of someone who does something like this could have done the same?

[natty bumppo 297]

If a married couple want to raise a child they shoud first under go some test be required to have a license. You need a drivers license to drive why not have a license to care for a child sense no one is responsible enough now in todays world to raise a child.

or parents who own guns, get a proof check by the authorities, check the house to make sure guns are not available for the kids...

Not necessary. Just hold the parents wholly responsible. If a teenager kills or hurts someone using the unsecured weapon of a parent, the parent shall stand trail and be prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law just as if (s)he pulled the trigger. And not just parents. Any gun owner who makes available - knowingly or not - his/her firearm to a minor and that minor commits a crime with that weapon, hold the owner to account. Plain and simple. Folks will be locking them guns up right quick.

alterations to address another means of death to others ... a very frequent means of causing death and injury too

No alterations needed. Least of all those that make no sense at all. The difference being that a car is a means of transportation, a gun is a means to hurt or kill. Just in case it escaped you there for a moment. I wouldn't liken a car accident with a kid grabbing daddy's gun to shoot himself some teachers. You might, I sure won't.

so teens in cars don't kill .... irresponsibility is not with teens and cars ? ...

Are you saying a car is not a means to kill ? Wow ... guess you need to research vehicular homicide ..

You really don't get it, do you?

I'll walk you through this slowly step by step:

1) What is the purpose of a car?

2) What is the purpose of a gun?

Do you see it now?

to kill ... here is one example ..

Cars for Killing

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

If a married couple want to raise a child they shoud first under go some test be required to have a license. You need a drivers license to drive why not have a license to care for a child sense no one is responsible enough now in todays world to raise a child.

or parents who own guns, get a proof check by the authorities, check the house to make sure guns are not available for the kids..

what!!?!?!?!?!?

you want me to have cops inside my house to see if my guns are secure?

my dad had over 100 guns scattered throughout our house when i was a teen. i had the knowledge that if i touched one without his permission i was, in his words, "going to meet every blade of grade personally out in the back yard."

i do not need the cops playing big brother in my house!

Do you think that the owner of the guns used in the attack (presumably a parent) might have had the same attitude?

About your dad with the 100+ guns - would you have been able to lay hands on one of those if you were so inclined as to want one?

more than likely i doubt the parent even noticed it missing.

yes, i could have laid my hands on about 50 of them if i wanted to. but the promise from my dad outweighed any reason i'd ever had for doing so

My question then - is if you were to have taken a gun and used it for something like what this kid has done, would that be responsible or irresponsible gun ownership, in your view?

i'd call it good - a clear cut punishment from dad if i did so. and they'd not have to worry about a trial cause my dad probably would beat me to death.

I'm wondering because if your dad relied on the "trust factor", that perhaps the parent of someone who does something like this could have done the same?

i'd call it the original version of the fear factor

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If a married couple want to raise a child they shoud first under go some test be required to have a license. You need a drivers license to drive why not have a license to care for a child sense no one is responsible enough now in todays world to raise a child.

or parents who own guns, get a proof check by the authorities, check the house to make sure guns are not available for the kids...

Not necessary. Just hold the parents wholly responsible. If a teenager kills or hurts someone using the unsecured weapon of a parent, the parent shall stand trail and be prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law just as if (s)he pulled the trigger. And not just parents. Any gun owner who makes available - knowingly or not - his/her firearm to a minor and that minor commits a crime with that weapon, hold the owner to account. Plain and simple. Folks will be locking them guns up right quick.

alterations to address another means of death to others ... a very frequent means of causing death and injury too

No alterations needed. Least of all those that make no sense at all. The difference being that a car is a means of transportation, a gun is a means to hurt or kill. Just in case it escaped you there for a moment. I wouldn't liken a car accident with a kid grabbing daddy's gun to shoot himself some teachers. You might, I sure won't.

so teens in cars don't kill .... irresponsibility is not with teens and cars ? ...

Are you saying a car is not a means to kill ? Wow ... guess you need to research vehicular homicide ..

You really don't get it, do you?

I'll walk you through this slowly step by step:

1) What is the purpose of a car?

2) What is the purpose of a gun?

Do you see it now?

to kill ... here is one example ..

Cars for Killing

It's perhaps a shrewd guess on my part that she didn't 'intend' to crash the car...

Its another shrewd guess perhaps that a mountain climber who falls off a cliff probably didn't mean for it to happen.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If a married couple want to raise a child they shoud first under go some test be required to have a license. You need a drivers license to drive why not have a license to care for a child sense no one is responsible enough now in todays world to raise a child.

or parents who own guns, get a proof check by the authorities, check the house to make sure guns are not available for the kids...

Not necessary. Just hold the parents wholly responsible. If a teenager kills or hurts someone using the unsecured weapon of a parent, the parent shall stand trail and be prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law just as if (s)he pulled the trigger. And not just parents. Any gun owner who makes available - knowingly or not - his/her firearm to a minor and that minor commits a crime with that weapon, hold the owner to account. Plain and simple. Folks will be locking them guns up right quick.

alterations to address another means of death to others ... a very frequent means of causing death and injury too

No alterations needed. Least of all those that make no sense at all. The difference being that a car is a means of transportation, a gun is a means to hurt or kill. Just in case it escaped you there for a moment. I wouldn't liken a car accident with a kid grabbing daddy's gun to shoot himself some teachers. You might, I sure won't.

so teens in cars don't kill .... irresponsibility is not with teens and cars ? ...

Are you saying a car is not a means to kill ? Wow ... guess you need to research vehicular homicide ..

You really don't get it, do you?

I'll walk you through this slowly step by step:

1) What is the purpose of a car?

2) What is the purpose of a gun?

Do you see it now?

to kill ... here is one example ..

Cars for Killing

I see, in your little bubble, cars are made to kill. What color is the sky in that bubble of yours?

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

It's perhaps a shrewd guess on my part that she didn't 'intend' to crash the car...

Its another shrewd guess perhaps that a mountain climber who falls off a cliff probably didn't mean for it to happen.

interesting how i see more people try to run over the police on "cops" than i see trying to shoot the police.

and btw, i've seen a guy try to run over his wife with a vehicle too. it's not uncommon.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Talking of kids and guns and what responsibility parents should bear:

Pa. student arrested in ‘Columbine-style’ plot

Guns, swords, military handbooks found in 14-year-old boy’s bedroom

MSNBC and NBC News

Updated: 1 hour, 4 minutes ago

PLYMOUTH MEETING, Pa. - A 14-year-old boy whose bedroom was jam-packed with weapons, neo-Nazi and anarchist literature, and DVDs about the massacre at Columbine High School was arrested after he asked a friend to join him in attacking a suburban Philadelphia high school, police said Thursday.

The boy, whose identity was not disclosed because he is a juvenile, was arrested Wednesday and charged with solicitation to commit terror and other counts. Police officials told NBC News that the boy, who was being held at a youth facility in Montgomery County, had confessed to plotting an attack on Plymouth-Whitemarsh High School.

“I believe a stupendous amount of police work resulted in stopping a potential Columbine-like shooting,” Montgomery County District Attorney Bruce Castor said.

Castor said the boy was being home-schooled after his parents withdrew him from a middle school in the school district more than a year ago because he had been bullied by other students.

Police searched the boy’s home Wednesday night after they received a tip from the father of a student at Plymouth-Whitemarsh, who said the boy had approached his son asking for his help in attacking the school. In April 1999, two disaffected teenage boys killed 12 fellow students and a teacher and wounded 24 other people at Columbine High School near Littleton, Colo.

In the boy’s bedroom, officers found a cache of weapons, including a 9mm semiautomatic assault-style rifle with two magazines, about 30 air rifles and pistols, numerous swords and other large knives, and at least four homemade hand grenades.

Police also found a DVD titled “Game Over in Littleton,” about the attack at Columbine, and three books: “The Anarchist Cookbook,” a 1971 book outlining how to manufacture explosives; an Army counterinsurgency operations manual; and “Hitler’s Second Book: The Unpublished Sequel to Mein Kampf.”

Mother bought rifle for boy

Castor said investigators were reviewing material on the boy’s computer and in his diary. They were also questioning his parents after they learned that his mother bought the 9mm rifle for her son, Castor said.

Castor said the boy did not appear to be far enough along in his plans that an attack was likely in the next few days or weeks, and classes proceeded as normal Thursday after Colonial School District officials issued a text alert to parents saying police had determined “that the school and its students were never in danger.”

But the arrest created anxiety at the school, coming on the same day that a 14-year-old boy in Cleveland opened fire at his high school, wounding four people, before killing himself. Some parents rushed to the school to pick up their children to find a chaotic scene.

“There’s parents standing in line trying to find their kids,” said Sally Black, whose son, Mark, was in French class when his mother arrived.

“Currently the conditions and the environment are not conducive to learning. The kids are being run like a three-ring circus now,” Black said. “You could put 100 cops in the school and it’s just going to make the situation even worse.”

Ann Marie Walter, another parent, said that when she got the message on her phone, she was “scared to death.”

“This is a terrible thing,” Walter said. “It’s not even close to home — it is home.”

Columbine references on MySpace page

Sources directed NBC affiliate WCAU of Philadelphia to the suspect’s MySpace Web page, which was filled with references to the 1999 Columbine shootings in a tribute to gunmen Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, whom he lists among his heroes.

Among his interests, the boy lists “shooting, war and bank robbery.” His favorite reading material is listed as military strategy and books by famous generals in history.

In one post, he describes himself as a mercenary soldier and highlights a quotation attributed to the Marines: “Mess with the best, die like the rest.”

The sources also directed WCAU to a separate Web site on which the boy appears to be intent on recruiting an army “to write [sic] the wrongs I had for to [sic] long ignored.” The site features a photo gallery of guns, ammunition and military tanks.

“To join you must be 10 or older, and be willing to go into combat, because there’s a 99 percent likelihood you will see combat,” he writes.

Castor, the district attorney, blamed the boy’s parents for his alienation and violent fantasies. Authorities said his father had a conviction for vehicular homicide in Oklahoma.

“I’m very, very upset about the role, the lack of oversight that apparently the parents had in this case,” Castor said. “We need to recognize that parents are the primary persons responsible for teaching young people the difference between right from wrong.”

By Alex Johnson of msnbc.com with Deanna Durant of NBC affiliate WCAU of Philadelphia. NBC’s Ron Allen contributed to this report.

MSNBC

Some would have you believe, though, that this kid was merely doing the equivalent of collecting cars.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If a married couple want to raise a child they shoud first under go some test be required to have a license. You need a drivers license to drive why not have a license to care for a child sense no one is responsible enough now in todays world to raise a child.

or parents who own guns, get a proof check by the authorities, check the house to make sure guns are not available for the kids...

Not necessary. Just hold the parents wholly responsible. If a teenager kills or hurts someone using the unsecured weapon of a parent, the parent shall stand trail and be prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law just as if (s)he pulled the trigger. And not just parents. Any gun owner who makes available - knowingly or not - his/her firearm to a minor and that minor commits a crime with that weapon, hold the owner to account. Plain and simple. Folks will be locking them guns up right quick.

alterations to address another means of death to others ... a very frequent means of causing death and injury too

No alterations needed. Least of all those that make no sense at all. The difference being that a car is a means of transportation, a gun is a means to hurt or kill. Just in case it escaped you there for a moment. I wouldn't liken a car accident with a kid grabbing daddy's gun to shoot himself some teachers. You might, I sure won't.

so teens in cars don't kill .... irresponsibility is not with teens and cars ? ...

Are you saying a car is not a means to kill ? Wow ... guess you need to r

esearch vehicular homicide ..

You really don't get it, do you?

I'll walk you through this slowly step by step:

1) What is the purpose of a car?

2) What is the purpose of a gun?

Do you see it now?

to kill ... here is one example ..

Cars for Killing

I see, in your little bubble, cars are made to kill. What color is the sky in that bubble of yours?

[almaty 19]

If a married couple want to raise a child they shoud first under go some test be required to have a license. You need a drivers license to drive why not have a license to care for a child sense no one is responsible enough now in todays world to raise a child.

or parents who own guns, get a proof check by the authorities, check the house to make sure guns are not available for the kids...

Not necessary. Just hold the parents wholly responsible. If a teenager kills or hurts someone using the unsecured weapon of a parent, the parent shall stand trail and be prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law just as if (s)he pulled the trigger. And not just parents. Any gun owner who makes available - knowingly or not - his/her firearm to a minor and that minor commits a crime with that weapon, hold the owner to account. Plain and simple. Folks will be locking them guns up right quick.

alterations to address another means of death to others ... a very frequent means of causing death and injury too

No alterations needed. Least of all those that make no sense at all. The difference being that a car is a means of transportation, a gun is a means to hurt or kill. Just in case it escaped you there for a moment. I wouldn't liken a car accident with a kid grabbing daddy's gun to shoot himself some teachers. You might, I sure won't.

so teens in cars don't kill .... irresponsibility is not with teens and cars ? ...

Are you saying a car is not a means to kill ? Wow ... guess you need to research vehicular homicide ..

You really don't get it, do you?

I'll walk you through this slowly step by step:

1) What is the purpose of a car?

2) What is the purpose of a gun?

Do you see it now?

to kill ... here is one example ..

Cars for Killing

I see, in your little bubble, cars are made to kill. What color is the sky in that bubble of yours?

lol..that was cutting,.,but good...touche

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's perhaps a shrewd guess on my part that she didn't 'intend' to crash the car...

Its another shrewd guess perhaps that a mountain climber who falls off a cliff probably didn't mean for it to happen.

interesting how i see more people try to run over the police on "cops" than i see trying to shoot the police.

and btw, i've seen a guy try to run over his wife with a vehicle too. it's not uncommon.

Far less common than shootings or stabbings.