Ohio school gunman kills self, wounds 4

[DeadPoolX 9]

For those here who fail to comprehend the difference between a car and gun, maybe they should go to sleep tonight with a full gassed-up Honda under their pillow.

The really funny thing about this entire debate is that I am, in general, against gun control laws and I own a firearm!

It's pretty weird though that some of the people who have posted here who own guns, can't seem to admit to what they actually are. Equating them to cars in a specific context like this is really ludicrous.

a mechanical device misused is the problem when there is a serious lack of responsibility … be it a car, gun, baseball bat, knife ... etc.

your kitchen probably contains lots of objects designed specifically for the cutting of flesh … or should I say weapons.

No, that's not it.

Listen... what's important is the "intention" behind the development of the object.

A baseball bat, for instance, is designed to hit a ball. It can be used to bash someone's skull in, but that's not why it exists.

A knife can also be used to slash or stab someone; however, depending on it's intended purpose, it may or may not be a weapon. For example -- a bread knife is designed for cutting bread (seems a little unnecessary to me, but they seem to have something for everyone) and a boning knife is designed for removing the bones of poultry, meat and fish. Could either one of those be used to hack away at a person? Probably. But is that what they were designed to do? No, not at all.

So neither the baseball bat nor the kitchen knives should be classified as weapons, since they were not developed for the purpose of causing harm or death to other living creatures.

Now look at a combat knife (a KA-BAR) and see that the intention behind it's design was to wound and kill. So if someone classified this as a weapon, they'd be right, since that is it's job.

The same is true with the whole "firearm vs car" argument. A firearm's job -- it's main purpose for being -- is to wound or kill an animal or person. Contrast that with a car's job, which is transportation. There's a big difference there.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

a mechanical device misused is the problem when there is a serious lack of responsibility … be it a car, gun, baseball bat, knife ... etc.

For the third time, when you're dealing with violent psychopaths intent on murder, the term "responsibility" becomes rather irrelevant. Completely actually.

[natty bumppo 297]

No, the problem is that you seem to want to fudge the distinction between guns (designed to kill and efficient at so doing) and other items, not designed to kill and therefore less effective. How much less effective? Well, a lot less really, that's why guns haven't so far been replaced by any of these household objects when it comes to armed combat.

If x takes his car/plastic bag/knife/base ball bat and sets out to wreak havoc he is going to be less successful than his gun toting counterpart. To argue otherwise is to be blind to what a gun is in my opinion.

Exactly.

You are entitled to your opinion ... and imagination too.

To use these other items "tools" to wreak havoc is only limited by the individuals imagination and will ... think about this.

The argument is with yourself ... who is disputing what a gun is? You?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No, the problem is that you seem to want to fudge the distinction between guns (designed to kill and efficient at so doing) and other items, not designed to kill and therefore less effective. How much less effective? Well, a lot less really, that's why guns haven't so far been replaced by any of these household objects when it comes to armed combat.

If x takes his car/plastic bag/knife/base ball bat and sets out to wreak havoc he is going to be less successful than his gun toting counterpart. To argue otherwise is to be blind to what a gun is in my opinion.

Exactly.

You are entitled to your opinion ... and imagination too.

To use these other items "tools" to wreak havoc is only limited by the individuals imagination and will ... think about this.

The argument is with yourself ... who is disputing what a gun is? You?

You actually. You don't seem to want to admit the purpose for which it was designed and intended.

Edited October 13, 2007 by Number 6

[Peikko 1,575]

To use these other items "tools" to wreak havoc is only limited by the individuals imagination and wil...think about this.

Think about what?

Either, guns are good at what they are meant for, or they are not. My opinion, and that of most people is that guns are extremely good at killing people which is why, surprise surprise, they are the weapon of choice by the vast majority of crazed killers.

No matter how much will and imagination I have, I am really not going to be a successful mass murderer with a plastic bag. I may be more successful with car but the reality is, the gun is the best thing to use (failing access to bombs and missile launchers of course) because wait for it, guns are designed with the express purpose of causing harm.

Edited October 13, 2007 by Purple_Hibiscus

[natty bumppo 297]

For those here who fail to comprehend the difference between a car and gun, maybe they should go to sleep tonight with a full gassed-up Honda under their pillow.

The really funny thing about this entire debate is that I am, in general, against gun control laws and I own a firearm!

It's pretty weird though that some of the people who have posted here who own guns, can't seem to admit to what they actually are. Equating them to cars in a specific context like this is really ludicrous.

a mechanical device misused is the problem when there is a serious lack of responsibility … be it a car, gun, baseball bat, knife ... etc.

your kitchen probably contains lots of objects designed specifically for the cutting of flesh … or should I say weapons.

No, that's not it.

Listen... what's important is the "intention" behind the development of the object.

A baseball bat, for instance, is designed to hit a ball. It can be used to bash someone's skull in, but that's not why it exists.

A knife can also be used to slash or stab someone; however, depending on it's intended purpose, it may or may not be a weapon. For example -- a bread knife is designed for cutting bread (seems a little unnecessary to me, but they seem to have something for everyone) and a boning knife is designed for removing the bones of poultry, meat and fish. Could either one of those be used to hack away at a person? Probably. But is that what they were designed to do? No, not at all.

So neither the baseball bat nor the kitchen knives should be classified as weapons, since they were not developed for the purpose of causing harm or death to other living creatures.

Now look at a combat knife (a KA-BAR) and see that the intention behind it's design was to wound and kill. So if someone classified this as a weapon, they'd be right, since that is it's job.

The same is true with the whole "firearm vs car" argument. A firearm's job -- it's main purpose for being -- is to wound or kill an animal or person. Contrast that with a car's job, which is transportation. There's a big difference there.

you answered your own question ... cut flesh is your answer. this is what these knives were designed to do. It's how you choose to use the knives.

btw: I suggest taking your "not designed to harm but cut food" knives through security on your next trip. report your findings ... tool or weapon?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

For those here who fail to comprehend the difference between a car and gun, maybe they should go to sleep tonight with a full gassed-up Honda under their pillow.

The really funny thing about this entire debate is that I am, in general, against gun control laws and I own a firearm!

It's pretty weird though that some of the people who have posted here who own guns, can't seem to admit to what they actually are. Equating them to cars in a specific context like this is really ludicrous.

a mechanical device misused is the problem when there is a serious lack of responsibility … be it a car, gun, baseball bat, knife ... etc.

your kitchen probably contains lots of objects designed specifically for the cutting of flesh … or should I say weapons.

No, that's not it.

Listen... what's important is the "intention" behind the development of the object.

A baseball bat, for instance, is designed to hit a ball. It can be used to bash someone's skull in, but that's not why it exists.

A knife can also be used to slash or stab someone; however, depending on it's intended purpose, it may or may not be a weapon. For example -- a bread knife is designed for cutting bread (seems a little unnecessary to me, but they seem to have something for everyone) and a boning knife is designed for removing the bones of poultry, meat and fish. Could either one of those be used to hack away at a person? Probably. But is that what they were designed to do? No, not at all.

So neither the baseball bat nor the kitchen knives should be classified as weapons, since they were not developed for the purpose of causing harm or death to other living creatures.

Now look at a combat knife (a KA-BAR) and see that the intention behind it's design was to wound and kill. So if someone classified this as a weapon, they'd be right, since that is it's job.

The same is true with the whole "firearm vs car" argument. A firearm's job -- it's main purpose for being -- is to wound or kill an animal or person. Contrast that with a car's job, which is transportation. There's a big difference there.

you answered your own question ... cut flesh is your answer. this is what these knives were designed to do. It's how you choose to use the knives.

btw: I suggest taking your "not designed to harm but cut food" knives through security on your next trip. report your findings ... tool or weapon?

If you use a kitchen knife as a weapon, it is a weapon.

How do you practically use a gun in any way that it is not a weapon?

[Peikko 1,575]

There is no one so blind as one who wishes not to see.

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

To use these other items "tools" to wreak havoc is only limited by the individuals imagination and wil...think about this.

Think about what?

Either, guns are good at what they are meant for, or they are not. My opinion, and that of most people is that guns are extremely good at killing people which is why, surprise surprise, they are the weapon of choice by the vast majority of crazed killers.

No matter how much will and imagination I have, I am really not going to be a successful mass murderer with a plastic bag. I may be more successful with car but the reality is, the gun is the best thing to use (failing access to bombs and missile launchers of course) because wait for it, guns are designed with the express purpose of causing harm.

same applies to a bow and arrow. and a crossbow. a broadsword can do a wee bit of damage too.

How do you practically use a gun in any way that it is not a weapon?

target shooting, as previously mentioned.

and btw, i've not fired my rifles in over 10 years. same for most of my firearms,

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

To use these other items "tools" to wreak havoc is only limited by the individuals imagination and wil...think about this.

Think about what?

Either, guns are good at what they are meant for, or they are not. My opinion, and that of most people is that guns are extremely good at killing people which is why, surprise surprise, they are the weapon of choice by the vast majority of crazed killers.

No matter how much will and imagination I have, I am really not going to be a successful mass murderer with a plastic bag. I may be more successful with car but the reality is, the gun is the best thing to use (failing access to bombs and missile launchers of course) because wait for it, guns are designed with the express purpose of causing harm.

same applies to a bow and arrow. and a crossbow. a broadsword can do a wee bit of damage too.

Sure. But what superceded the crossbow, longbow, broadsword and battleaxe?

The plastic bag?

[natty bumppo 297]

No, the problem is that you seem to want to fudge the distinction between guns (designed to kill and efficient at so doing) and other items, not designed to kill and therefore less effective. How much less effective? Well, a lot less really, that's why guns haven't so far been replaced by any of these household objects when it comes to armed combat.

If x takes his car/plastic bag/knife/base ball bat and sets out to wreak havoc he is going to be less successful than his gun toting counterpart. To argue otherwise is to be blind to what a gun is in my opinion.

Exactly.

You are entitled to your opinion ... and imagination too.

To use these other items "tools" to wreak havoc is only limited by the individuals imagination and will ... think about this.

The argument is with yourself ... who is disputing what a gun is? You?

You actually. You don't seem to want to admit the purpose for which it was designed and intended.

really? ... I thought we were talking about personal responsibility and how another object/ intention could be misused.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I can't believe that this argument over what a gun is and isn't made for is still going on. I have long since realized that some simply refuse to acknowledge that di-ˈnī(-ə)l is not just some river in Africa.

[Peikko 1,575]

Why guns are so dangerous is their ability to inflict a lot of death and destruction in a very short amount of time, they are designed like that because they are...ta dah, weapons!

Take your 'tool' through airport security and argue the toss with them about 'oh but, my gun is not going to harm you unless I act recklessly' That'll go down a treat.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

target shooting, as previously mentioned.

and btw, i've not fired my rifles in over 10 years. same for most of my firearms,

Well you're still using it as a weapon - even if you're shooting it at an inanimate target.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Take your 'tool' through airport security and argue the toss with them about 'oh but, my gun is not going to harm you unless I act recklessly' That'll go down a treat.

Worth a shot, eh?