Ohio school gunman kills self, wounds 4

[SMOKE 1,426]

Another one for the tally - along with Virginia Tech and the Sheriff's Deputy from the other week.

It's an epidemic!!!! Just like illegal immigration... oh wait. Illegal immigration is an isolated incident. Right?

Illegal aliens murder12 Americans daily

Left-field on that one mate - I've never said implicitly or otherwise that illegal immigration is an 'isolated incident'.

But these kinds of mass rampages seem to happen with disturbing frequency here - and noone seems to have an answer; because that might mean questioning that sacred cow of the second amendment.

Just a few random thoughts ....

Think maybe the sacred cow of "responsibility" needs to be addressed.

Seems something more basic has changed within society over the past 30 years and the 2nd is still the same as then.

Lets see ... disturbed kid ... acts out the "I want attention" game ... doesn't get it ... then decides .. it's blaze of glory time … complete with worldwide media coverage (the person will be remembered for years (meaning, the person will be somebody))

Sure - but it seems to happen here more than anywhere else. I'm sure there's more to that than gun ownership. But still - begs the question surely?

more people die here coz of car wrecks also. should we rethink transportation as well?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Another one for the tally - along with Virginia Tech and the Sheriff's Deputy from the other week.

It's an epidemic!!!! Just like illegal immigration... oh wait. Illegal immigration is an isolated incident. Right?

Illegal aliens murder12 Americans daily

Left-field on that one mate - I've never said implicitly or otherwise that illegal immigration is an 'isolated incident'.

But these kinds of mass rampages seem to happen with disturbing frequency here - and noone seems to have an answer; because that might mean questioning that sacred cow of the second amendment.

Just a few random thoughts ....

Think maybe the sacred cow of "responsibility" needs to be addressed.

Seems something more basic has changed within society over the past 30 years and the 2nd is still the same as then.

Lets see ... disturbed kid ... acts out the "I want attention" game ... doesn't get it ... then decides .. it's blaze of glory time … complete with worldwide media coverage (the person will be remembered for years (meaning, the person will be somebody))

Sure - but it seems to happen here more than anywhere else. I'm sure there's more to that than gun ownership. But still - begs the question surely?

more people die here coz of car wrecks also. should we rethink transportation as well?

Well that's really not the same is it.

Accident Vs. Intentional Murder with tools expressly designed for the task (and apparently easily available to the 'wrong' people).

When this happened in the UK it was a watershed moment - for some reason it just isn't here, and it happens over and over again.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Another one for the tally - along with Virginia Tech and the Sheriff's Deputy from the other week.

It's an epidemic!!!! Just like illegal immigration... oh wait. Illegal immigration is an isolated incident. Right?

Illegal aliens murder12 Americans daily

Left-field on that one mate - I've never said implicitly or otherwise that illegal immigration is an 'isolated incident'.

But these kinds of mass rampages seem to happen with disturbing frequency here - and noone seems to have an answer; because that might mean questioning that sacred cow of the second amendment.

Just a few random thoughts ....

Think maybe the sacred cow of "responsibility" needs to be addressed.

Seems something more basic has changed within society over the past 30 years and the 2nd is still the same as then.

Lets see ... disturbed kid ... acts out the "I want attention" game ... doesn't get it ... then decides .. it's blaze of glory time … complete with worldwide media coverage (the person will be remembered for years (meaning, the person will be somebody))

Sure - but it seems to happen here more than anywhere else. I'm sure there's more to that than gun ownership. But still - begs the question surely?

more people die here coz of car wrecks also. should we rethink transportation as well?

Well that's really not the same is it.

Accident Vs. Intentional Murder with tools expressly designed for the task (and apparently easily available to the 'wrong' people).

When this happened in the UK it was a watershed moment - for some reason it just isn't here, and it happens over and over again.

ever hear of people going bar hopping? intentionally go from bar to bar getting loaded, then get behind the wheel of a 2000lb vehicle. the point i'm making is.... stupidity & recklessness shouldn't be a justification for restricting responsible people.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Another one for the tally - along with Virginia Tech and the Sheriff's Deputy from the other week.

It's an epidemic!!!! Just like illegal immigration... oh wait. Illegal immigration is an isolated incident. Right?

Illegal aliens murder12 Americans daily

Left-field on that one mate - I've never said implicitly or otherwise that illegal immigration is an 'isolated incident'.

But these kinds of mass rampages seem to happen with disturbing frequency here - and noone seems to have an answer; because that might mean questioning that sacred cow of the second amendment.

Just a few random thoughts ....

Think maybe the sacred cow of "responsibility" needs to be addressed.

Seems something more basic has changed within society over the past 30 years and the 2nd is still the same as then.

Lets see ... disturbed kid ... acts out the "I want attention" game ... doesn't get it ... then decides .. it's blaze of glory time … complete with worldwide media coverage (the person will be remembered for years (meaning, the person will be somebody))

Sure - but it seems to happen here more than anywhere else. I'm sure there's more to that than gun ownership. But still - begs the question surely?

more people die here coz of car wrecks also. should we rethink transportation as well?

Well that's really not the same is it.

Accident Vs. Intentional Murder with tools expressly designed for the task (and apparently easily available to the 'wrong' people).

When this happened in the UK it was a watershed moment - for some reason it just isn't here, and it happens over and over again.

ever hear of people going bar hopping? intentionally go from bar to bar getting loaded, then get behind the wheel of a 2000lb vehicle. the point i'm making is.... stupidity & recklessness shouldn't be a justification for restricting responsible people.

When this kind of thing happens as frequently as this - I think there's an argument for a 'common good'.

[Ban Hammer 13,655]

Another one for the tally - along with Virginia Tech and the Sheriff's Deputy from the other week.

It's an epidemic!!!! Just like illegal immigration... oh wait. Illegal immigration is an isolated incident. Right?

Illegal aliens murder12 Americans daily

Left-field on that one mate - I've never said implicitly or otherwise that illegal immigration is an 'isolated incident'.

But these kinds of mass rampages seem to happen with disturbing frequency here - and noone seems to have an answer; because that might mean questioning that sacred cow of the second amendment.

Just a few random thoughts ....

Think maybe the sacred cow of "responsibility" needs to be addressed.

Seems something more basic has changed within society over the past 30 years and the 2nd is still the same as then.

Lets see ... disturbed kid ... acts out the "I want attention" game ... doesn't get it ... then decides .. it's blaze of glory time … complete with worldwide media coverage (the person will be remembered for years (meaning, the person will be somebody))

Sure - but it seems to happen here more than anywhere else. I'm sure there's more to that than gun ownership. But still - begs the question surely?

more people die here coz of car wrecks also. should we rethink transportation as well?

Well that's really not the same is it.

Accident Vs. Intentional Murder with tools expressly designed for the task (and apparently easily available to the 'wrong' people).

When this happened in the UK it was a watershed moment - for some reason it just isn't here, and it happens over and over again.

ever hear of people going bar hopping? intentionally go from bar to bar getting loaded, then get behind the wheel of a 2000lb vehicle. the point i'm making is.... stupidity & recklessness shouldn't be a justification for restricting responsible people.

When this kind of thing happens as frequently as this - I think there's an argument for a 'common good'.

given that, we'd all be hoofing it everywhere instead of driving.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Another one for the tally - along with Virginia Tech and the Sheriff's Deputy from the other week.

It's an epidemic!!!! Just like illegal immigration... oh wait. Illegal immigration is an isolated incident. Right?

Illegal aliens murder12 Americans daily

Left-field on that one mate - I've never said implicitly or otherwise that illegal immigration is an 'isolated incident'.

But these kinds of mass rampages seem to happen with disturbing frequency here - and noone seems to have an answer; because that might mean questioning that sacred cow of the second amendment.

Just a few random thoughts ....

Think maybe the sacred cow of "responsibility" needs to be addressed.

Seems something more basic has changed within society over the past 30 years and the 2nd is still the same as then.

Lets see ... disturbed kid ... acts out the "I want attention" game ... doesn't get it ... then decides .. it's blaze of glory time … complete with worldwide media coverage (the person will be remembered for years (meaning, the person will be somebody))

Sure - but it seems to happen here more than anywhere else. I'm sure there's more to that than gun ownership. But still - begs the question surely?

more people die here coz of car wrecks also. should we rethink transportation as well?

Well that's really not the same is it.

Accident Vs. Intentional Murder with tools expressly designed for the task (and apparently easily available to the 'wrong' people).

When this happened in the UK it was a watershed moment - for some reason it just isn't here, and it happens over and over again.

ever hear of people going bar hopping? intentionally go from bar to bar getting loaded, then get behind the wheel of a 2000lb vehicle. the point i'm making is.... stupidity & recklessness shouldn't be a justification for restricting responsible people.

When this kind of thing happens as frequently as this - I think there's an argument for a 'common good'.

so i'm guessing you've never seen the bar hopping thing & how often it happens..everyday...

are you sure restricting everyone is the answer? and not just hammering the owner of the weapon used? for someone that is so against "big brother" controlling any part of your life. your stance on this suprises me.

[Heracles 417]

Another one for the tally - along with Virginia Tech and the Sheriff's Deputy from the other week.

It's an epidemic!!!! Just like illegal immigration... oh wait. Illegal immigration is an isolated incident. Right?

Illegal aliens murder12 Americans daily

#######!! 12 a day.. That is just 'collateral damage'.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Another one for the tally - along with Virginia Tech and the Sheriff's Deputy from the other week.

It's an epidemic!!!! Just like illegal immigration... oh wait. Illegal immigration is an isolated incident. Right?

Illegal aliens murder12 Americans daily

Left-field on that one mate - I've never said implicitly or otherwise that illegal immigration is an 'isolated incident'.

But these kinds of mass rampages seem to happen with disturbing frequency here - and noone seems to have an answer; because that might mean questioning that sacred cow of the second amendment.

Just a few random thoughts ....

Think maybe the sacred cow of "responsibility" needs to be addressed.

Seems something more basic has changed within society over the past 30 years and the 2nd is still the same as then.

Lets see ... disturbed kid ... acts out the "I want attention" game ... doesn't get it ... then decides .. it's blaze of glory time … complete with worldwide media coverage (the person will be remembered for years (meaning, the person will be somebody))

Sure - but it seems to happen here more than anywhere else. I'm sure there's more to that than gun ownership. But still - begs the question surely?

more people die here coz of car wrecks also. should we rethink transportation as well?

Well that's really not the same is it.

Accident Vs. Intentional Murder with tools expressly designed for the task (and apparently easily available to the 'wrong' people).

When this happened in the UK it was a watershed moment - for some reason it just isn't here, and it happens over and over again.

ever hear of people going bar hopping? intentionally go from bar to bar getting loaded, then get behind the wheel of a 2000lb vehicle. the point i'm making is.... stupidity & recklessness shouldn't be a justification for restricting responsible people.

When this kind of thing happens as frequently as this - I think there's an argument for a 'common good'.

so i'm guessing you've never seen the bar hopping thing & how often it happens..everyday...

are you sure restricting everyone is the answer? and not just hammering the owner of the weapon used? for someone that is so against "big brother" controlling any part of your life. your stance on this suprises me.

Sure I've seen it and I don't deny that it happens. But I see a distinction between a misuse of a vehicle and the proliferation of deadly weapons that are used not only in crimes but in numerous incidents like this.

[lynamon 0]

I live in Cleveland (Ohio City - West side) ... quite frankly ... this is disturbing for me (and I'm sure that once my family back home catch wind .... oh boy!). My 9 year old goes to a Cleveland school (tuition, catholic with security) but I'm terrified when he will have to go to high school. I'm hoping that we'll move to the suburbs by the time that rolls around.

As for kids these days ... true discipline has been removed, they do not have a good healthy fear of challenging their parents or caregivers ... "spanky time" went out the window... violence is "cool" (TV and video games) and it desensitizes them ... Watching Jaws when I was a kid was far too gory ... now what do they see?

[Caladan 19]

Another one for the tally - along with Virginia Tech and the Sheriff's Deputy from the other week.

It's an epidemic!!!! Just like illegal immigration... oh wait. Illegal immigration is an isolated incident. Right?

Illegal aliens murder12 Americans daily

Left-field on that one mate - I've never said implicitly or otherwise that illegal immigration is an 'isolated incident'.

But these kinds of mass rampages seem to happen with disturbing frequency here - and noone seems to have an answer; because that might mean questioning that sacred cow of the second amendment.

Just a few random thoughts ....

Think maybe the sacred cow of "responsibility" needs to be addressed.

Seems something more basic has changed within society over the past 30 years and the 2nd is still the same as then.

Lets see ... disturbed kid ... acts out the "I want attention" game ... doesn't get it ... then decides .. it's blaze of glory time … complete with worldwide media coverage (the person will be remembered for years (meaning, the person will be somebody))

Sure - but it seems to happen here more than anywhere else. I'm sure there's more to that than gun ownership. But still - begs the question surely?

more people die here coz of car wrecks also. should we rethink transportation as well?

Well that's really not the same is it.

Accident Vs. Intentional Murder with tools expressly designed for the task (and apparently easily available to the 'wrong' people).

When this happened in the UK it was a watershed moment - for some reason it just isn't here, and it happens over and over again.

ever hear of people going bar hopping? intentionally go from bar to bar getting loaded, then get behind the wheel of a 2000lb vehicle. the point i'm making is.... stupidity & recklessness shouldn't be a justification for restricting responsible people.

But people driving dangerously drunk does mean there are restrictions (like a .08 alcohol limit) on me. Some guy thinks he can abuse a poor foreign bride by beating her and holding her green card over her head; IMBRA becomes a restriction on me. Some girl thinks the American guy courting her is a ticket to easy street; my fiance has to have an interview.

That's how society works. I am not sure whether more gun legislation would have any effect, but let's not pretend that it's unprecedented for someone else's bad actions to be a justification for restricting responsible people, because that's crazy talk.

[Heracles 417]

The frequency of these incidents should be ZERO..

The psychological source of these kids problems is never addressed.

[Heracles 417]

I live in Cleveland (Ohio City - West side) ... quite frankly ... this is disturbing for me (and I'm sure that once my family back home catch wind .... oh boy!). My 9 year old goes to a Cleveland school (tuition, catholic with security) but I'm terrified when he will have to go to high school. I'm hoping that we'll move to the suburbs by the time that rolls around.

As for kids these days ... true discipline has been removed, they do not have a good healthy fear of challenging their parents or caregivers ... "spanky time" went out the window... violence is "cool" (TV and video games) and it desensitizes them ... Watching Jaws when I was a kid was far too gory ... now what do they see?

Some of the latest releases:

28 Weeks Later

Night Of The Living Dead 3D

Haunting Of #24

Ferryman

Wailer

Dead Man's Hand

Memory

Unholy

Petrified

Night Junkies

It is all good and well for some people to say well you have a choice of what your kid watches; therefore the responsibility falls on every parent. And I totally agree. On the other hand what happens in situations where kids are not supervised and do not have adults to pick and choose what is suitable for them to watch. Unfortunately it is everyone else who has to pay for the consequences of this.

Edited October 11, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I believe there's a quote from George Orwell to the effect that reading books by the likes of Arthur Conan Doyle, Edgar Rice-Burroughs and H. Rider Haggard would turn a person into a fascist. Very insightful guy Orwell, but he was wrong about that - just as people today are wrong about the media being the sole cause of violent behaviour.

It may be an 'influence', but one among many. At a guess I'd say that a person's upbringing and background will always have a more direct impact on their subsequent behaviour.

[Heracles 417]

I believe there's a quote from George Orwell to the effect that reading books by the likes of Arthur Conan Doyle, Edgar Rice-Burroughs and H. Rider Haggard would turn a person into a fascist. Very insightful guy Orwell, but he was wrong about that - just as people today are wrong about the media being the sole cause of violent behaviour.

It may be an 'influence', but one among many. At a guess I'd say that a person's upbringing and background will always have a more direct impact on their subsequent behaviour.

Have you seen this kids myspace profile? Humans have only been exposed to such graphical films over the past 15 years. While a well rounded kid might brush it off. For some it really warps their brains and train of thought.

What I would be asking is questions like: how is it this stuff rarely occurs overseas? Do kids there watch the same amount of TV as kids do here? Do kids there watch the same things as kids do here? What are superintendents and principals doing? What is more important, teaching sex ed or the mental health of kids? I know back in Aus we all wore uniforms. This subtle difference, for example, made every kid feel like they are on the same playing field. Rather than outcasts; No matter what their views or status is.

There are a lot of great parents out there. Unfortunately there are also a lot of parents out there who simply do not understand or want to understand what it actually means to be a parent.

Edited October 11, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I still think that it is rather more complicated than media influence. Its very easy to blame specific movies, video games etc outside of any other context. I'm willing to bet that an abusive upbringing will always be more damaging than watching a 'video-nasty'. I just don't think we should pin this sort of thing down on stereotypical scapegoats without considering all the facts of this specific case.