Ohio school gunman kills self, wounds 4

[natty bumppo 297]

simple ... was the car the instrument to kill ... yes or no ?

Not really - the kid was killed when she was thrown from the car. She wasn't hit 'by it'.

oh ... so the car had absolutely nothing to do with being killed ??

sad ... sad ... comment there ... sorry ... the car was involved.

You like the :wacko: smiley don't you?

Yeah she was thrown out of the car... onto some bullets...

sorry ... just letting you know my thoughts about a car having nothing to do with being thrown from a car.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

simple ... was the car the instrument to kill ... yes or no ?

Not really - the kid was killed when she was thrown from the car. She wasn't hit 'by it'.

oh ... so the car had absolutely nothing to do with being killed ??

sad ... sad ... comment there ... sorry ... the car was involved.

You like the :wacko: smiley don't you?

Yeah she was thrown out of the car... onto some bullets...

sorry ... just letting you know my thoughts about a car having nothing to do with being thrown from a car.

It would be. If I actually said that.

[natty bumppo 297]

Gun locks. Make a gun owner criminally liable in situations where gross negligence can be proven.

oh ..

I lock a gun and its used to kill someone ...

I lock a car and it's used to kill someone ...

this means in either example ... the owner is liable.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Gun locks. Make a gun owner criminally liable in situations where gross negligence can be proven.

oh ..

I lock a gun and its used to kill someone ...

I lock a car and it's used to kill someone ...

this means in either example ... the owner is liable.

In practice that's not the case really is it.

If someone steals my unsecured gun and it gets used to commit a crime I could be held legally accountable, depending on the laws of my state.

I don't believe the same holds true if someone steals my car and does likewise.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Gun locks. Make a gun owner criminally liable in situations where gross negligence can be proven.

oh ..

I lock a gun and its used to kill someone ...

I lock a car and it's used to kill someone ...

this means in either example ... the owner is liable.

Where's the gross negligence on the owner's part in either of your examples? I don't see it.

[natty bumppo 297]

the primary purpose of a gun is to provide protection...

How's a gun providing protection? What characteristic of the gun makes it protective?

wanna guess what will happen if someone tries to break in to my or charles' house to harm our families?

That has a pretty threatening tone to it. Which leads me to believe that what you're essentially saying is that the protective purpose is really merely a derivative of the gun's primary purpose - which is to harm or kill. Which is all I've been saying all along.

no. don't spin it to fit your needs. the gun is there to protect. if the person wasn't trying to do harm in the first place no harm would come to them.

Sure... protection via the threat of causing serious or life-threatening harm. That's the reality. You're just being selective about who you'd point the gun at.

I see, in your little bubble, cars are made to kill. What color is the sky in that bubble of yours?

a gun is a tool. just like a nail gun, it can hurt, maim, or kill if used irresponsibly.

and btw, downstairs are about 20 guns, grand total so far is about 500 years collectively that i know of that they've not killed anyone

And yet, the primary purpose of all of them is precisely that whether you want to acknowledge that simple fact or not.

A tool. Like a nail gun? Is that the best you got? Can you build something using a gun?

oh ... does this mean a nail gun can't kill ??

beware of technology in use ... "you could get nailed" ...

Could you do a Virginia Tech with a car, hammer or a nail gun?

Be honest... It requires a 'yes' or a 'no'. No biggie...

yes ... I can visit Hokie Honda or Lowes first .... then wait for the right moment ... it's easy ... just use your imagintion

[natty bumppo 297]

simple ... was the car the instrument to kill ... yes or no ?

Not really - the kid was killed when she was thrown from the car. She wasn't hit 'by it'.

the car had absolutely nothing to do with the death ....

wow ... what a statement

I said she wasn't hit by the car, and the crash wasn't intentional. You must not have read that.

At least answer my question:

Could you do a Virginia Tech with a car, hammer or a nail gun?

With the same degree of 'success'?

the gas pedal must have been possessed ... nobody pressed it intentionally ?

Even so a car is far from the ideal murder weapon. I mean you can hear it coming...

not always .... the wind may be blowing from the wrong direction

Can you spell r e a c h i n g ?

guess you've never been on the road on a bicycle ... try it some day ... do some road work.

[natty bumppo 297]

i dunno the stats but i'm willing to bet more people are killed by cars than firearms. yet some people want to rewrite the constitution & take guns away from responsible people to keep them out of the wrong peoples hands.( i doubt the wrong folks will run right down to turn their guns in) and not mandate safe guards (in car breath test etc.) in every vehicle. to keep them out of the wrong hands. maybe i'm wrong but i don't understand this.

I'm willing to bet that there are more murders in which a gun, rather than a car is the murder weapon.

I've yet to be mugged by someone threatening me with a car.

you including neglegent(??spelling) homicide? & drunk driver? bet the house

No I was talking 'pre-meditated murder' There's a legal distinction.

As I said previously - including drunk driving as a form of homicide merely makes stupid or incompetent drivers pay the same price as if they went out with the intent. They didn't - and I can see the difference even if you can't.

but, you don't see a diff between stupid/incompetent & responsible gun owners?

Have you driven your gun to work lately?

Actually I've been target shooting ... skeet shooting ... with people from work ... and customers too...

beats the heck out of golf ... oh wait ... a golf ball is a target ...

So, I take that as a NO.

yes ... every day

[MissStacey 1]

The thing that gets me the most is that shootings like this won't end- it is just a matter of time to when the next one will be.

These people are already screwed in the head and are willing to end their own lives- but they want to take as many as they can with them and go down in a blaze of glory, so to speak.

[Ban Hammer 13,347]

the primary purpose of a gun is to provide protection...

How's a gun providing protection? What characteristic of the gun makes it protective?

wanna guess what will happen if someone tries to break in to my or charles' house to harm our families?

That has a pretty threatening tone to it. Which leads me to believe that what you're essentially saying is that the protective purpose is really merely a derivative of the gun's primary purpose - which is to harm or kill. Which is all I've been saying all along.

no, he's saying it's to defend. it's only offensive if you're the one doing the b&e

the primary purpose of a gun is to provide protection...

How's a gun providing protection? What characteristic of the gun makes it protective?

you're a burglar. would you break into a house where you know the owner is a gunowner?

you're a carjacker. you see some petite woman getting into her car and she has a gun on her hip. would you try to carjack her?

Thanks for illustrating my point.

actually, your inability to answer that question proves mine. proof of protection - game - set - match.

[natty bumppo 297]

The thing that gets me the most is that shootings like this won't end- it is just a matter of time to when the next one will be.

These people are already screwed in the head and are willing to end their own lives- but they want to take as many as they can with them and go down in a blaze of glory, so to speak.

thank you ... I think I stated this another way earlier today ...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

yes ... I can visit Hokie Honda or Lowes first .... then wait for the right moment ... it's easy ... just use your imagintion

Really... Someone could use any other 'tool' to commit a rampage murder spree - and kill 30+ people all before the cops show up?

Yup. That smells like horse$hit to me.

That and this whole line of argument equating guns to cars to hammers stinks of grotesque relativism. How a person can pretend to have an intelligent argument by being plainly stupid.

[Ban Hammer 13,347]

steven, i see you are here, take over. i've got a convoy to go sink in silent hunter III.

Which direction am I suppose to run with the ball?

nevermind, i'm outta torpedos now

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

simple ... was the car the instrument to kill ... yes or no ?

Not really - the kid was killed when she was thrown from the car. She wasn't hit 'by it'.

the car had absolutely nothing to do with the death ....

wow ... what a statement

I said she wasn't hit by the car, and the crash wasn't intentional. You must not have read that.

At least answer my question:

Could you do a Virginia Tech with a car, hammer or a nail gun?

With the same degree of 'success'?

the gas pedal must have been possessed ... nobody pressed it intentionally ?

I'm sure the crash and killing of the child weren't 'intentional'.

You know this whole line of argument reminds me of the Persian Emperor Xerxes, who after his attempt to cross the Hellespont failed due to bad weather ordered his soldiers to whip the sea.

[Ban Hammer 13,347]

Have you driven your gun to work lately?

have you gone hunting with your car? if so...........you might be a redneck

From which you might ask - is a gun necessary to daily life? I'm not certain that it is...

you don't live in the country, do you? snakes. rabid coyotes. and about a mile from here are a pair of pit bulls that just about 2 weeks ago attacked their owner. the occasional mountain lion. and a 30-45 minute response time from the county sheriff.......

yes, a gun is needed around here.