Yallah Middle East 2.0

[~Jackie~ 30]

We survived a 2 year 'long distance marriage'. I still had the green-card doubts up til the AOS interview. After the interview and Mohammed received the 10 year card, he stayed. And now, he has had the card for 6 months, and he isn't going anywhere.

I think all the negative comments about men marrying for a greencard, they do tend to sit in the back of your mind. It is not til after the card is in hand, and they still stay, that is the true test. (and I am soooooo glad my habibi passed! )

Jackie

Dawn---where are you ??????

[AInfante-Saraireh 0]

Oh I have the same fear about the green card and to be honest with you, even though I feel good about myself, I still at times think my husband is still after the green card. Even though he swears that he is not and really goes out of his way to show me he loves me, sometimes, knowing the arabic man, i still think they can love us and still want the green card. As they have married in the past without falling in love, a family marriage arrangement, maybe with a cousin to carry the family name, it sometimes makes me feel leery. So I guess it's all a gamble. But it also a fear of mine. And being over 6,000 miles apart, who can blame some of us? I'm never afraid of Faisal sleeping with others, just not sure his entire motive to come to America. He says it's for me, coz I said I wouldn't move there. I just don't know ladies.

[honeyblonde 0]

It's ok Andrea, it's normal. Especially for women our age who have already been used by American men for years. At some point you just have to decide whether you want to risk loving a man that could be using you for a green card or loving a man who could use you for sex, or a place to live, or any one of the hundreds of things American men use us for every day that nobody wants to point out to us when we're with a non-American man. It's like somebody said, "only Arab men kidnap women and children?" Well I say, "only Arab men use women?"

At first it was easy for me because Abdel is amazing, but when I told my ex from Morocco that I was marrying another Moroccan, he was the one to put doubts in my head. He told me stories of whole families deceiving the woman while she is there then laughing at her as soon as she leaves. He told me that I should never trust a Moroccan man because they all just want green cards. I told him not every man is like him, but in my mind, the doubts were planted.

All any of us can do is jump in and give it our best. When our man has his green card and he is still treating us the same as he does now, then we will know that wasn't his motive. For me, it is worth being treated like a queen for a few years and taking the risk that it won't last. How many marriages last much longer than that anyway? I could be sitting here lonely putting up with ####### from the 20 something "men" that I had been "dating" before I met Abdel, but I'd much rather be sitting here exhausted from Abdel pushing me to give 2 hours of tennis my best go. With Abdel, I feel good about who I am, not something I could say about the past several men I've dated.

Honestly, if you don't doubt sometimes it means you're wearing blinders. Just be wise enough to watch for the red flags in the relationship, and if they go up, get out. If they don't, relax and start believing you found the man for you.

[AInfante-Saraireh 0]

Thanks Honeyblonde. So right you are!

[cbd2cai 0]

He told me stories of whole families deceiving the woman while she is there then laughing at her as soon as she leaves. He told me that I should never trust a Moroccan man because they all just want green cards.

Honestly, if you don't doubt sometimes it means you're wearing blinders. Just be wise enough to watch for the red flags in the relationship, and if they go up, get out. If they don't, relax and start believing you found the man for you.

Same thing happens in Egypt . . . big time. I hear lots of stories about how the whole family is in on deceiving a woman. And not just to get a green card . . . to get MONEY!! This is usually in tourist areas like Luxor (Sharm el Sheik, Hurghada), where many of the ppl can be extremely poor and they make their living off of tourists. An Egyptian man meets a Western woman (aka Cash Cow) and he gets her to fall in love with him, marries her (legal at the Ministry of Justice is usually not done because they have to sign a paper saying they are free to marry), then she gives him money to build a flat, buy a car, start a business, etc. If she is living with him in Luxor, she might even be living with his Egyptian wife and children . . . but have been told it is his sister, etc. If she isn't living in Luxor, she won't even know that much . . . and he might have more than one Western "wife" visiting at different times. Most of these men don't want to leave Egypt and come to the States for a green card.

When I started reading all these stories (one of the Egypt based forums has already been mentioned, but there are a few others out there), I was really worried. I do wonder if I can believe everything that I am told. It can be quite easy for someone to be deceived in this situation.

Believe it or not, I made Ahmed go with me to Luxor last year after we were married. We stayed in a flat on the West Bank, which is the side of the Nile where most of the ancient sites are located. It is more Egyptian . . . less tourists stay on this side. The flat was managed by an English woman, but the owner was actually an Egyptian who owned the building in front of the flat, plus a Papyrus shop (lol, selling to tourists of course). He had spent time in the States and spoke English fairly well. He talked to Ahmed a lot while I was out "touristing". He talked to me before I left Luxor and told me that Ahmed was a good man (LOL, not like the other Egyptian men that he knew???), different from many Egyptians and that I was lucky to have found him. I always try to remember his words because i felt that he was being honest with me (LOL, but how do I know???). I know he has made a point to call Ahmed a couple of times to see how things are going with him, so I feel that he cared about Ahmed.

hmmmmm, not sure that makes much sense . . . but that is what I think. You never know what anything really means . . . just try to do the best you can in the relationshhip . . . insha'allah, you have many more good times than bad times and have many good memories to carry with you if your paths diverge in the future.

Edited April 6, 2006 by cbarrosmostafa

[AInfante-Saraireh 0]

good post charr! I guess a lot of us will not know until we've spent the adequate time with our spouses. But it's true what u r saying, not just in Egypt but all over the world, but look at the rise in visas in the ME? Also the marriages? Sometimes, u wonder if all these men really love their spouses. Even though I try to convice myself differently, it's still in the back of my head.

Anyway, had a fight with my husband tonight, not over green card, over something else and he showed me a temper side I'd not seen that strong for the entire time I've known him. Now, I know he's tired from working so much and the hours he awakens and the hours he puts in, but his attitude and temper tonight was totally uncalled for!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We shall see.

[cbd2cai 0]

Oh, and something else, ainfante, which does sound discouraging . . . an Egyptian woman I know made a comment that many of the men were incapable of loving anyone because they have to work so hard to just exist. She didn't make the comment to me, but to another friend of mine . . . I sometimes wonder if she said it as a warning to me, but wouldn't say it to me personally.

And, I too look at the fact that in their culture, they might marry for SEX (because it is forbidden before marriage, sort of like it is here too but not many ppl follow their religions on that issue ) . . . Ahmed even told me that many of them do that. They are also more likely to have to marry someone that they didn't choose . . arranged marriages in some cases (they might get approval options, but not always). Sometimes they choose to marry a Western woman because it is easier to get married to them without having a lot of money (we usually come with our own money because many of us work for a living) . . . in Egypt, the man has to have a good job, get a flat, furniture, etc. before the marriage . . so he might be waiting till his mid-30's to get financially secure enough to marry . . . it is a long time to go without SEX, LOL!!!

And all this in a culture where all their songs are about LOVE . . . TRUE LOVE . . . UNREQUITTED LOVE . . . LONGING FOR LOVE . . . LOSING LOVE, etc.

LOL, Ahmed told me he likes Western music much better than Egyptian music because it actually can be about something other than love . . . hmmmmm, ok, i keep hearing that song "I want to F*** you like an animal!!" I guess that isn't about love . . . ok, I do know what he means.

I think it is time for me to quit thinking and go to bed!!

[AInfante-Saraireh 0]

Right Charr. This is in the entire arabic culture, not just in Egypt. Anyway, my husband and I are still fighting. He showed a bad side of himself and to my surprise, something I hadn't seen in him before.

[anxious 0]

I think all the negative comments about men marrying for a greencard, they do tend to sit in the back of your mind. It is not til after the card is in hand, and they still stay, that is the true test. (and I am soooooo glad my habibi passed! )

That is definitely a thing my friends are all waiting to see what will happen...will things be the same etc.

That is so sad but have I had thoughts about things changing after this summer for me?...yes.

Even though I have not seen anything to make me wonder.

So what does that mean...insecurities...heard too many horror stories....lack of trust....

I guess only time will tell ...so look for me guys... LMAO...look for me and see what kind of post I will be

typing come June-ish.

good topic though

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I think it's normal to question people's motives. I always did, throughout my life. I never really trusted anyone, and certainly not enough to consider marrying.

But after I met my husband, he showed me through his actions and his ways that he honestly and truly loves me. He never wanted to come to the U.S. before, although he had several chances. As our relationship deepened and as I came to know what this man's morals and standards are, and what he's gone through for me over what is now more than 3 years' time, and as I saw how he treated me every day of his life, no matter what else happened around us, I finally felt the trust I had never known before.

Praying for all of you to find true love, trust, comfort and happiness in your relationships that will endure for a lifetime.

-MK

[Bosco 1]

I am not referring to anyone's case in particular, but I don't think the fact that the men stay after the GC is proof. Many of these men send money home to their families or are intent on saving with plans to return home one day. If they were not sharing expenses with another person, they would not be able to do so, or their ability to do so would be limited. Think about how many American-American couples stay together just because of finances. I have two friends who would leave their husbands if they felt they could make it on their own.

Living with a bunch of other immigrants is not necessarily a more better option - by living with a wife they have someone cleaning/cooking (or splitting this) and willing to do the "laundry".

Now if the woman is staying at home and the man is the sole provider, or money is in some other way not an issue, than I think you could consider the GC as proof.

Rebecca

[kerewin21 2]

Sometimes they choose to marry a Western woman because it is easier to get married to them without having a lot of money (we usually come with our own money because many of us work for a living) . . . in Egypt, the man has to have a good job, get a flat, furniture, etc. before the marriage . . so he might be waiting till his mid-30's to get financially secure enough to marry . . . it is a long time to go without SEX, LOL!!!

And all this in a culture where all their songs are about LOVE . . . TRUE LOVE . . . UNREQUITTED LOVE . . . LONGING FOR LOVE . . . LOSING LOVE, etc.

You're totally cracking me up...and there's also a lot of truth to what you say!

[honeyblonde 0]

Actually Abdel told me up front that he had never thought he would marry. He's a middle son in a family with 7 boys and his parents are deceased. He has never had an official job even though he is only a semester away from a degree and has had to depend on his sister for support, and teach French lessons to children or help a friend in his shop when he can. Ironically, he always seemed to have more money in his pocket when he was in Morocco than I've been able to give him here. In his situation, marriage wasn't an option within Morocco since he could never provide a Mahr.

He constantly expresses his appreciation to me for supporting him while we wait for his work permit, and he works his butt off trying to make up for me having to. He was the one to start the "I hope you stay with me forever" that we seem to exchange almost daily. I feel incredibly lucky to have found him, and I think that he's for real. Only time will tell.

With Mustapha, I think he was just 25 and his biological clock was having a hard time with the celibacy issue. I don't know if he honestly intended to use me for a green card or if he just couldn't wait any longer to marry and I was the first woman to give him the time of day. He was already living in the Bahamas and had lived in France for years, so he had already gotten out of Morocco.

I do agree that the celibacy forced on many by their religion, Muslim or not, tends to cause unhealthy rushed marriages based on little more than the sex drive. We would be foolish to think that Muslim men would be any different from any other men in this area.

[cbd2cai 0]

Sometimes they choose to marry a Western woman because it is easier to get married to them without having a lot of money (we usually come with our own money because many of us work for a living) . . . in Egypt, the man has to have a good job, get a flat, furniture, etc. before the marriage . . so he might be waiting till his mid-30's to get financially secure enough to marry . . . it is a long time to go without SEX, LOL!!!

And all this in a culture where all their songs are about LOVE . . . TRUE LOVE . . . UNREQUITTED LOVE . . . LONGING FOR LOVE . . . LOSING LOVE, etc.

You're totally cracking me up...and there's also a lot of truth to what you say!

obviously I am thinking too much!!

[cbd2cai 0]

I do agree that the celibacy forced on many by their religion, Muslim or not, tends to cause unhealthy rushed marriages based on little more than the sex drive. We would be foolish to think that Muslim men would be any different from any other men in this area.

Actually, I do agree with this . . . I think many ppl in the West get married for reasons of "hormonal rushs" . . . not that it is bad really because it is all about propagation of the species (not that we ever like to admit our "animal" sides) and sometimes these feelings subside and, hopefully, true friendship/love comes into play. . . sometimes not. My thoughts on marrying someone outside our culture . . . probably have just as much chance at succeeding as the ones inside our culture given all the things that can happen during a marriage/relationship. It does take two people to work on the relationship. Ahmed says to me when I express my doubts/worries/fears . . . please, just wait for me to come and step-by-step we will try to make this work together. He also likes to say "don't b afraid!!" . . . LOL, but I think he has his own set of fears too.

Did I mention that when I went to the Embassy in Cairo to get that piece of paper signed giving me permission to marry (also, where I swear I am free to marry, blah, blah, blah), the Vice-Consul spoke with me before he would sign and gave me his little talk about how the marriage probably wouldn't last due to cultural and religious reasons . . . that the consulate sees the aftermath of the marriages falling apart, etc. He said he is duty bound to provide that warning to me. I told him that I had been doing research on the internet about it and I understood the risks. But reality and abstract concepts are two different things when your life starts to be impacted by a decision that was made at a time when you (me) might not have completely understood what was about to happen.

Still a lot to think about . . . . .