What is your personal feeling why AP is taking so long in many cases?

[ya falaha! 0]

Agreed 100% Especially the part I bolded.

Since I've been on VJ, I've seen Egypt ARs/APs run anywhere from a week or two all the way up to 11 months and more. Many of you have been waiting a really long time -- 4 and 6 and 8 months or more -- but it's not really outside the "normal" range for this consulate.

I don't know why Cairo seems to take so much longer than some other consulates. It's probably a combination of factors that have already been mentioned -- the size of the caseload, the extra difficulties in completing security checks when they are dealing with so many similar names... plus the additional factors of simply being a ME/NA country, and the need for extra scrutiny because of the higher incidence of fraud.

We don't know everything that's going on behind the scenes in Cairo. The consulate may be privy to information we (the USC) are not aware of. (Not trying to scare anyone, but I've seen some real shockers here on VJ about stuff the consulate dug up -- stuff the USC was completely unaware of.)

Name checks are only part of the time-consuming tasks that immigration must complete. Most of the consulate's job is determining if the parties are actually eligible for visas, and if there is evidence of fraud. This can be a very complicated determination to make, so gathering evidence and sifting through it may take a long time. But I certainly don't think it's a matter of the consulate "having it in" for certain people, and deliberately (and frivolously) delaying those cases.

I think it's perfectly normal to have feelings of being somehow personally singled out for harrassment, but those feelings should not be allowed to overcome one's ability to reason logically and unemotionally. The consulate is doing a job -- maybe they're slow, but it's not because they personally don't like you or your case.

Also, I don't think you have to "experience" a lengthy AR to sympathize with the frustrations and anger it can cause -- I think the venting here is absolutely understandable.

Wishing everyone who is still waiting (whether they vent or not) to have a speedy completion of their process, so they may be reunited with their loved ones as soon as possible.

-MK

[blueblue 0]

[Do you think that the fraud factor of some MENA countries compared to that of Europe means nothing?

This is an interesting aspect. How do you know that marriage fraud is a bigger problem, percentage wise in MENA than any other country?

Based on my experience, I see much more that cases are denied for suspected fraud where none exists, than denied for fraud that does exist. This is based primarily on experiences where the basis for the fraud accusation is a suspicion or 'gut feeling' the consular has because of some red flag issue like the wife is older than the husband or some similar nonsense. That is not proof of fraud. It is not a reason to accuse someone of fraud.

The State Dept. have felt the need to send TWO cables on the issue to embassies, to me that seems to indicate a systemic problem that the government has recognized exists and their only response so far has been first to send those 2 cables to clarify what the law is, what the burden of proof is on the government to lay out (beyond what is in the FAM) of how this should be handled and that accusations of fraud based on suspicion are not supposed to happen. They also changed the handling process to have the NVC start tracking the number of returned petitions. Again, a sign this is not a small problem. But the effects on families is devastating.

So anyway, I definately question the fraud rates of any embassy when they see fraud everywhere that doesn't exist. That is not to say fraud doesn't exist, but simply that their detectors senses of fraud are defective and therefore their statisics are defective.

[sarah and hicham 3]

[Do you think that the fraud factor of some MENA countries compared to that of Europe means nothing?

This is an interesting aspect. How do you know that marriage fraud is a bigger problem, percentage wise in MENA than any other country?

Based on my experience, I see much more that cases are denied for suspected fraud where none exists, than denied for fraud that does exist. This is based primarily on experiences where the basis for the fraud accusation is a suspicion or 'gut feeling' the consular has because of some red flag issue like the wife is older than the husband or some similar nonsense. That is not proof of fraud. It is not a reason to accuse someone of fraud.

The State Dept. have felt the need to send TWO cables on the issue to embassies, to me that seems to indicate a systemic problem that the government has recognized exists and their only response so far has been first to send those 2 cables to clarify what the law is, what the burden of proof is on the government to lay out (beyond what is in the FAM) of how this should be handled and that accusations of fraud based on suspicion are not supposed to happen. They also changed the handling process to have the NVC start tracking the number of returned petitions. Again, a sign this is not a small problem. But the effects on families is devastating.

So anyway, I definately question the fraud rates of any embassy when they see fraud everywhere that doesn't exist. That is not to say fraud doesn't exist, but simply that their detectors senses of fraud are defective and therefore their statisics are defective.

And how do you know that the fraud doesn't exist? Because the man says he loves his wife and will love her forever? How do you know the man's intentions?

[doodlebug 3]

(Not trying to scare anyone, but I've seen some real shockers here on VJ about stuff the consulate dug up -- stuff the USC was completely unaware of.)

Aw c'mon spill the beans. It's Halloween season so we can be scared!!! you know you wanna!!!! :energetic:

[MrsAmera 41]

I think she is refering to cases where the CO uncovers that the fiance is not really what he claims to be or has other things in his past that the petitioner was not aware of. I can recall one case like this I believe possibly more.

[doodlebug 3]

I think she is refering to cases where the CO uncovers that the fiance is not really what he claims to be or has other things in his past that the petitioner was not aware of. I can recall one case like this I believe possibly more.

That would TOTALLY suck!!!! I feel bad for the women this has happened to.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

(Not trying to scare anyone, but I've seen some real shockers here on VJ about stuff the consulate dug up -- stuff the USC was completely unaware of.)

Aw c'mon spill the beans. It's Halloween season so we can be scared!!! you know you wanna!!!! :energetic:

I think she is refering to cases where the CO uncovers that the fiance is not really what he claims to be or has other things in his past that the petitioner was not aware of. I can recall one case like this I believe possibly more.

That would TOTALLY suck!!!! I feel bad for the women this has happened to.

Some of the SOs were discovered to be already married to someone else. Sometimes the USC had actually been introduced to these spouses while visiting the foreign country (often the spouses were presented as "cousins," etc.) Several SOs had criminal convictions they had not disclosed, which made them ineligible for a U.S. Visa. Some were found to be juggling several foreign "romances" at the same time, ready to go with whichever one got the paperwork approved first. And some were actually petitioned for by several different USCs -- imagine sending your application to USCIS, only to get a notice that your "beneficiary" is already being processed, by someone else

It was absolutely horrible for the women (and also the men) who were the unsuspecting victims of these frauds. A big part of the consulates' job is to protect American citizens from this kind of deception.

-MK

[~~~water~~~ 0]

understandable I believe this.

I just wish they could be more efficient and why do others get no checks at all or very short ones even though they may be bad people, abusive or a just as easily deceiving everyone and they get there visa in a month or two ? It dosen't make sense to me I think everyone should be put through these long amount of checks if it in the name of security and how things must be done not just the chosen few.

Edited October 4, 2007 by water is wide

[maggieNomar 0]

(Not trying to scare anyone, but I've seen some real shockers here on VJ about stuff the consulate dug up -- stuff the USC was completely unaware of.)

Aw c'mon spill the beans. It's Halloween season so we can be scared!!! you know you wanna!!!! :energetic:

I think she is refering to cases where the CO uncovers that the fiance is not really what he claims to be or has other things in his past that the petitioner was not aware of. I can recall one case like this I believe possibly more.

That would TOTALLY suck!!!! I feel bad for the women this has happened to.

Some of the SOs were discovered to be already married to someone else. Sometimes the USC had actually been introduced to these spouses while visiting the foreign country (often the spouses were presented as "cousins," etc.) Several SOs had criminal convictions they had not disclosed, which made them ineligible for a U.S. Visa. Some were found to be juggling several foreign "romances" at the same time, ready to go with whichever one got the paperwork approved first. And some were actually petitioned for by several different USCs -- imagine sending your application to USCIS, only to get a notice that your "beneficiary" is already being processed, by someone else

It was absolutely horrible for the women (and also the men) who were the unsuspecting victims of these frauds. A big part of the consulates' job is to protect American citizens from this kind of deception.

-MK

Morocco at one time at least was requiring a certificate of being single at one time, for the K1. Do you think those are pretty much legit, or easy to get forged?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

understandable I believe this.

I just wish they could be more efficient and why do others get no checks at all or very short ones even though they may be bad people, abusive or a just as easily deceiving everyone and they get there visa in a month or two ? It dosen't make sense to me I think everyone should be put through these long amount of checks if it in the name of security and how things must be done not just the chosen few.

But not all cases are the same -- there are all sorts of variables that affect the speed of the processing. Not everyone has a common name, not every case has issues the consulate wants to scrutinize more closely. It's not that people are "chosen" for a long AR or "chosen" for a short one -- it's just the way the cookie crumbles.

I am very sorry that you are having to go through such a long wait. Hopefully whatever is holding up your case will be resolved soon. I want to see more Visas in Hand this month !!!

-MK

[~~~water~~~ 0]

thanks.... Im sorry I feel so jaded, I just have little faith in this system... Everyday I log on just hoping to at least see one visa issued... Its kinda slow though .. what can you do. Thanks VJ people for being here

Edited October 4, 2007 by water is wide

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Morocco at one time at least was requiring a certificate of being single at one time, for the K1. Do you think those are pretty much legit, or easy to get forged?

Do you mean the one that the USC provides ? These are merely notarized statements -- the USC swears in front of a notary public that they are free to marry, and the notary stamps it as "yep -- that person swore that." It's not really "proof" of anything, as there is no background check or verification of this statement.

[Jenn! 918]

Morocco at one time at least was requiring a certificate of being single at one time, for the K1. Do you think those are pretty much legit, or easy to get forged?

Do you mean the one that the USC provides ? These are merely notarized statements -- the USC swears in front of a notary public that they are free to marry, and the notary stamps it as "yep -- that person swore that." It's not really "proof" of anything, as there is no background check or verification of this statement.

No, there is an official certificate of celibacy issued in Morocco. I know Wadi got one to bring to the interview because he was told by someone that it was required even though I assured him that it was not.

I'm pretty sure that anything can be forged.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Morocco at one time at least was requiring a certificate of being single at one time, for the K1. Do you think those are pretty much legit, or easy to get forged?

Do you mean the one that the USC provides ? These are merely notarized statements -- the USC swears in front of a notary public that they are free to marry, and the notary stamps it as "yep -- that person swore that." It's not really "proof" of anything, as there is no background check or verification of this statement.

No, there is an official certificate of celibacy issued in Morocco. I know Wadi got one to bring to the interview because he was told by someone that it was required even though I assured him that it was not.

I'm pretty sure that anything can be forged.

Ah.

[MrsAmera 41]

[Do you think that the fraud factor of some MENA countries compared to that of Europe means nothing?

This is an interesting aspect. How do you know that marriage fraud is a bigger problem, percentage wise in MENA than any other country?

Based on my experience, I see much more that cases are denied for suspected fraud where none exists, than denied for fraud that does exist. This is based primarily on experiences where the basis for the fraud accusation is a suspicion or 'gut feeling' the consular has because of some red flag issue like the wife is older than the husband or some similar nonsense. That is not proof of fraud. It is not a reason to accuse someone of fraud.

The State Dept. have felt the need to send TWO cables on the issue to embassies, to me that seems to indicate a systemic problem that the government has recognized exists and their only response so far has been first to send those 2 cables to clarify what the law is, what the burden of proof is on the government to lay out (beyond what is in the FAM) of how this should be handled and that accusations of fraud based on suspicion are not supposed to happen. They also changed the handling process to have the NVC start tracking the number of returned petitions. Again, a sign this is not a small problem. But the effects on families is devastating.

So anyway, I definately question the fraud rates of any embassy when they see fraud everywhere that doesn't exist. That is not to say fraud doesn't exist, but simply that their detectors senses of fraud are defective and therefore their statisics are defective.

And how do you know that the fraud doesn't exist? Because the man says he loves his wife and will love her forever? How do you know the man's intentions?

I bolded the part that I am going to discuss. While I agree this is not a definete indication of fraud let's put ourselves in the shoes of the CO. DISCLAIMER:**Please look at this as open mindedly as possible as I think that it could help any of you in this situation when you proceed. And I am not coming at this blindly, in my work I have had conversations with for example the Chief CO in Cairo, and other Middle Eastern Countries.**

You may think that age has nothing to do with the validity of your relationship however it does play a role. Honestly it does, the CO's have told me this. Ok so back to the roleplaying - You are the CO and 3 days every week you have people who are applying for US marriage visas enter, now mind you marriage visas while difficult to secure also offer the fastest route to permenant residency and citizenship so there is need for extra caution. Every day during these interviews guess what over half the stories are out of these countries: large age difference, met online, visited once - you may have talked for hours on the phone, and chatted and have loads of pictures from your trip to visit but how much weight does that hold in the big picture. Now they are seeing this every day they have these visa interviews - what would you think. Please look at this objectively and not in any one of your situations. Does it suck yea absolutely but their job is not to make you happy (really) their job is to protect the country. Immigration is not a right, nor is it your right as a citizen to bring someone you like here - it's a privelage and you have to prove that you should be allowed this privelage. Also as MK pointed out in a previous post - the CO does find out other things about fiances or even husbands that the US Citizen doesn't know.

So what should you do: a) visit them more than one time, for longer periods of time. B) be suspicious of their intentions, have those hard discussions, about money (and sending money home), the future, kids (if they say they don't want kids and you're an older woman don't just take it at face value question it), c) learn the culture and see if you are being treated the same way a woman from their culture who was engaged to or married to their son/brother would be (this is a big indication of the validity of the relationship - this is also the reason the CO wants to see pictures of you with his family). Those are just a few of the things that I have been told from CO's.

Marriage fraud happens frequently and it's the CO's job to weed out those cases even if your case seems obvious to you. Not to mention the extra precautions for security and terrorism but I won't delve into that here unless warrented.

**** Please dont' take this as any type of attack - I am offering you information from my personal conversations with CO's regarding such issues - I really do want to help and am not trying to disapoint or discourage any of you - I really wish you all the best*****

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/mow/news2006/elouerrassi.ple.htm