Bush vetoes expansion of kids' health insurance program

[Jenn! 918]

I pay very little in premiums...

Between your premiums and what your employer pays on your behalf, how much does your health insurance cost per year?

For my family of three, it comes to well over 12K / year before medicare taxes and that portion of our tax dollars that go to fund the ever growing hole the private health care system leaves behind. I wouldn't exactly call that cheap.

I meant that *I* personally don't pay very much out of pocket - less than $100/month for 2 people (well, I think that's pretty darn good). I am well aware how expensive the premiums are. My point was regarding the idea that "My health insurance is working for me so I don't want anything to change."

The remainder of your premium is coming out of your pay, too. You just don't see it.

I support UHC, so I don't quite understand why you're trying to argue with me.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just trying to ascertain whether you truly believe that your current health insurance comes cheap to you.

I think you missed my point. I do realize how much everyone including myself pays for health insurance. What I'm saying is that health insurance premiums are not killing me. I am not facing economic hardship due to medical conditions that are not covered by my insurance. I am, relatively speaking, happy with my current situation. Yet I still would like to see UHC.

[Peikko 1,575]

Gary, some people believe that society, in part at least, exists to protect the less fortunate, the weaker, those who can't afford to completely take care of themselves. That is why there is public education, a police service, a fire service etc. To add a public health service is simply to extend this protection.

The idea is, that if you take care of these people, eventually they can and will take care of themselves, or their children will. If you don't do this, you create an underclass of people who have no hope of ever getting out of their situation because they simply can't get enough resources to get out of the poverty trap.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I pay very little in premiums...

Between your premiums and what your employer pays on your behalf, how much does your health insurance cost per year?

For my family of three, it comes to well over 12K / year before medicare taxes and that portion of our tax dollars that go to fund the ever growing hole the private health care system leaves behind. I wouldn't exactly call that cheap.

I meant that *I* personally don't pay very much out of pocket - less than $100/month for 2 people (well, I think that's pretty darn good). I am well aware how expensive the premiums are. My point was regarding the idea that "My health insurance is working for me so I don't want anything to change."

The remainder of your premium is coming out of your pay, too. You just don't see it.

I support UHC, so I don't quite understand why you're trying to argue with me.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just trying to ascertain whether you truly believe that your current health insurance comes cheap to you.

I think you missed my point. I do realize how much everyone including myself pays for health insurance. What I'm saying is that health insurance premiums are not killing me. I am not facing economic hardship due to medical conditions that are not covered by my insurance. I am, relatively speaking, happy with my current situation. Yet I still would like to see UHC.

Gotcha.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

Gary, some people believe that society, in part at least, exists to protect the less fortunate, the weaker, those who can't afford to completely take care of themselves. That is why there is public education, a police service, a fire service etc. To add a public health service is simply to extend this protection.

The idea is, that if you take care of these people, eventually they can and will take care of themselves, or their children will. If you don't do this, you create an underclass of people who have no hope of ever getting out of their situation because they simply can't get enough resources to get out of the poverty trap.

for some reason, everyone that wants free medical care won't join the military where it is a benefit of service.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The idea is, that if you take care of these people, eventually they can and will take care of themselves, or their children will. If you don't do this, you create an underclass of people who have no hope of ever getting out of their situation because they simply can't get enough resources to get out of the poverty trap.

Not to mention the overall cost benefit of effective preventive care. Part of the reason why we spend as much for health care as we do is that too many people are literally forced to wait to see a doc until they are taken to the emergency room which is the most expensive care there is.

[slim 1,525]

I love the "can't get enough resources to get out of poverty" #######!

This is the one country in the world where people bend over backwards to give opportunity to those willing to do something with it. The problem is.... it's too hard for most people to overcome the trap not because they lack the opportunity, but because they lack the will.

It should be changed to "can't wake up and get my @$$ to work on time" trap.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I love the "can't get enough resources to get out of poverty" #######!

This is the one country in the world where people bend over backwards to give opportunity to those willing to do something with it. The problem is.... it's too hard for most people to overcome the trap not because they lack the opportunity, but because they lack the will.

It should be changed to "can't wake up and get my @$$ to work on time" trap.

Good point, Slim!

Nice to see you back.

How's Cincinnati?

[Peikko 1,575]

Charles, I am sure some people do join the military at least in part to enjoy the benefits, but how can someone who is debilitated by disease join the military?

[Sinergy 3]

Thats just it, I don't think the way we do things now are bad enough to turn it over to the government. And I think it would get much worse if we did.

Good thing you worked hard to get where you are then & are on good benefits Gary. /sarcasm

The real world ain't pretty.

To bad it seems others are not willing to act like responsible adults and take charge of their own lives.

Clarify please?

Go figure, not all UHC supporters are destitute rejects looking for a free ride...

Oh yes Gary, please clariy. as ive already stated i do act like a responsible adult and take care of whats mine. you dont take care of and never will take care of my kids. instead of judging others, try putting yourself in their shoes, pretending wont be harmful to leave your perfect world for 5 mins or so.

[Sinergy 3]

Gary, some people believe that society, in part at least, exists to protect the less fortunate, the weaker, those who can't afford to completely take care of themselves. That is why there is public education, a police service, a fire service etc. To add a public health service is simply to extend this protection.

The idea is, that if you take care of these people, eventually they can and will take care of themselves, or their children will. If you don't do this, you create an underclass of people who have no hope of ever getting out of their situation because they simply can't get enough resources to get out of the poverty trap.

Not in his world, its one for one and none for all. why help the unfortunate when the "comfortable" can be happy and well off?

Edited October 4, 2007 by Ionescu

[Peikko 1,575]

It's a fallacy, beloved by some, that the majority of those in trouble are there because they are lazy. Maybe you believe that because you have never been around people like this? I don't know, but it is sad that you do believe that to be true.

[Sinergy 3]

I love the "can't get enough resources to get out of poverty" #######!

This is the one country in the world where people bend over backwards to give opportunity to those willing to do something with it. The problem is.... it's too hard for most people to overcome the trap not because they lack the opportunity, but because they lack the will.

It should be changed to "can't wake up and get my @$$ to work on time" trap.

Lets not catagorize EVERYONE to YOUR lable ok

[Jenn! 918]

why help the unfortunate when the "comfortable" can be happy and well off?

Some people don't see the poor as unfortunate, but rather as having made bad decisions/not worked hard enough and therefore they deserve to be "punished".

[Caladan 19]

Most American families are one major illness away from being in serious financial trouble. Even if you want to postulate that they're all irresponsible (ignoring successful small business owners, self-employed people, and, uh, recent immigrants), there's something desperately wrong with a system where that many people are labelled irresponsible.

Insurance for C. would cost us $5,000 a year through the plan that I have. That's just nuts.

[Sinergy 3]

why help the unfortunate when the "comfortable" can be happy and well off?

Some people don't see the poor as unfortunate, but rather as having made bad decisions/not worked hard enough and therefore they deserve to be "punished".

Im noticing this, and its making me vomit.

Most American families are one major illness away from being in serious financial trouble. Even if you want to postulate that they're all irresponsible (ignoring successful small business owners, self-employed people, and, uh, recent immigrants), there's something desperately wrong with a system where that many people are labelled irresponsible.

Insurance for C. would cost us $5,000 a year through the plan that I have. That's just nuts.