Bush vetoes expansion of kids' health insurance program

[no name 1]

But my position is the government running things will be worse than they are now.

Based on what, though, Gary? All indications are that any government, anywhere in the world (including this very government of ours), is doing a better job of running an efficient health care system than the private industry does in the US. That's a fact that you cannot dispute. So, what are you afraid of? Efficiency?

I look to the mess that SS and Medicare are in to base my opinion on. I also see $500 hammers in the military and government budgets filled with pork. Say I have no faith if you want but I just don't trust the government.

Medicare performs much better and more efficient than the private industry. The $500.00 hammer still comes cheaper than the $50,000,000.00 bonus if you get my drift. There's tons of pork in corporate budgets. Again, there's nothing that supports the stance that the private industry does a better job in terms of efficiency on health care than the government. There's plenty that supports the opposite. It all boils down to whether you support waste or efficiency. If you support the former, you'll be for the status quo. If you support the latter, you will support a public health care system to replace the existing wasteful private insurance machinery.

I guess I am for the status quo. I don't trust the government to do anything right.

Even though it is in plain sight that it does better in this particular field than the private industry? How bad does the private system have to fail and how much does it need to cost the taxpayer above and beyond what we individually pay for premiums until you see that the private model ain't working?

Thats just it, I don't think the way we do things now are bad enough to turn it over to the government. And I think it would get much worse if we did.

Good thing you worked hard to get where you are then & are on good benefits Gary. /sarcasm

The real world ain't pretty.

Edited October 4, 2007 by devilette

[no name 1]

There is a huge difference between someone who is a victim of circumstances beyond their control (and health isn't somehting that is controlable) and someone who willfully neglects to take care of themselves. Your comments suggest that everyone who lands in a position where they can't afford health care is willfully negligent and that is simply false.

but Purple, if life is good inside the box, why leave?

[GaryC 7]

But my position is the government running things will be worse than they are now.

Based on what, though, Gary? All indications are that any government, anywhere in the world (including this very government of ours), is doing a better job of running an efficient health care system than the private industry does in the US. That's a fact that you cannot dispute. So, what are you afraid of? Efficiency?

I look to the mess that SS and Medicare are in to base my opinion on. I also see $500 hammers in the military and government budgets filled with pork. Say I have no faith if you want but I just don't trust the government.

Medicare performs much better and more efficient than the private industry. The $500.00 hammer still comes cheaper than the $50,000,000.00 bonus if you get my drift. There's tons of pork in corporate budgets. Again, there's nothing that supports the stance that the private industry does a better job in terms of efficiency on health care than the government. There's plenty that supports the opposite. It all boils down to whether you support waste or efficiency. If you support the former, you'll be for the status quo. If you support the latter, you will support a public health care system to replace the existing wasteful private insurance machinery.

I guess I am for the status quo. I don't trust the government to do anything right.

Even though it is in plain sight that it does better in this particular field than the private industry? How bad does the private system have to fail and how much does it need to cost the taxpayer above and beyond what we individually pay for premiums until you see that the private model ain't working?

Thats just it, I don't think the way we do things now are bad enough to turn it over to the government. And I think it would get much worse if we did.

Good thing you worked hard to get where you are then & are on good benefits Gary. /sarcasm

The real world ain't pretty.

To bad it seems others are not willing to act like responsible adults and take charge of their own lives.

There is a huge difference between someone who is a victim of circumstances beyond their control (and health isn't somehting that is controlable) and someone who willfully neglects to take care of themselves. Your comments suggest that everyone who lands in a position where they can't afford health care is willfully negligent and that is simply false.

but Purple, if life is good inside the box, why leave?

The government isn't the solution to the problem, it is the problem. Less government, not more is the way to go.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Less government, not more is the way to go.

Unless, of course, it comes to consumer (also read: patients) rights. Then the private industry is screaming for the government to step in and limit liabilities.

[Peikko 1,575]

If the US government really is that useless, the answer is to fix the way they go about things, not ignore what they do and shift everything into the private domain especially when the private domain is screwing everyone, including those who can afford health insurance.

The way private health insurance is operated in the US is the real problem but I guess if you aren't hurting, you really don't care about those that are, especially when you believe those who are deserve to be because they are willfully negligent.

[Jenn! 918]

The way private health insurance is operated in the US is the real problem but I guess if you aren't hurting, you really don't care about those that are, especially when you believe those who are deserve to be because they are willfully negligent.

Not true (though I'm sure you already know that ). I have no problems with my health coverage - I pay very little in premiums and have never had any problems with coverage. Yet I still support universal health care. Go figure, not all UHC supporters are destitute rejects looking for a free ride...

[no name 1]

Thats just it, I don't think the way we do things now are bad enough to turn it over to the government. And I think it would get much worse if we did.

Good thing you worked hard to get where you are then & are on good benefits Gary. /sarcasm

The real world ain't pretty.

To bad it seems others are not willing to act like responsible adults and take charge of their own lives.

Clarify please?

Go figure, not all UHC supporters are destitute rejects looking for a free ride...

Edited October 4, 2007 by devilette

[GaryC 7]

If the US government really is that useless, the answer is to fix the way they go about things, not ignore what they do and shift everything into the private domain especially when the private domain is screwing everyone, including those who can afford health insurance.

The way private health insurance is operated in the US is the real problem but I guess if you aren't hurting, you really don't care about those that are, especially when you believe those who are deserve to be because they are willfully negligent.

I am not saying that there is no problem with they way we do things now. I am just saying the government taking over the whole thing is the wrong way to go. It's a little like going to the dentist with a cavity and having him pull all your teeth to fix it. It's overkill to the max. I do not want the government taking over our health care. I don't trust them to do it right.

[Peikko 1,575]

Well, I wasn't exactly describing my personal situation either. Mind you, I am screwed when it comes to dental costs and my plan is supposed to be one of the best, go figure!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I pay very little in premiums...

Between your premiums and what your employer pays on your behalf, how much does your health insurance cost per year?

For my family of three, it comes to well over 12K / year before medicare taxes and that portion of our tax dollars that go to fund the ever growing hole the private health care system leaves behind. I wouldn't exactly call that cheap.

[GaryC 7]

Well, I wasn't exactly describing my personal situation either. Mind you, I am screwed when it comes to dental costs and my plan is supposed to be one of the best, go figure!

Please explain to me why it's the governments responsibility to make sure everyone has health care. Please show me in the constitution where the mandate is for them to do it.

[Jenn! 918]

I pay very little in premiums...

Between your premiums and what your employer pays on your behalf, how much does your health insurance cost per year?

For my family of three, it comes to well over 12K / year before medicare taxes and that portion of our tax dollars that go to fund the ever growing hole the private health care system leaves behind. I wouldn't exactly call that cheap.

I meant that *I* personally don't pay very much out of pocket - less than $100/month for 2 people (well, I think that's pretty darn good). I am well aware how expensive the premiums are. My point was regarding the idea that "My health insurance is working for me so I don't want anything to change."

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I pay very little in premiums...

Between your premiums and what your employer pays on your behalf, how much does your health insurance cost per year?

For my family of three, it comes to well over 12K / year before medicare taxes and that portion of our tax dollars that go to fund the ever growing hole the private health care system leaves behind. I wouldn't exactly call that cheap.

I meant that *I* personally don't pay very much out of pocket - less than $100/month for 2 people (well, I think that's pretty darn good). I am well aware how expensive the premiums are. My point was regarding the idea that "My health insurance is working for me so I don't want anything to change."

The remainder of your premium is coming out of your pay, too. You just don't see it.

[Jenn! 918]

I pay very little in premiums...

Between your premiums and what your employer pays on your behalf, how much does your health insurance cost per year?

For my family of three, it comes to well over 12K / year before medicare taxes and that portion of our tax dollars that go to fund the ever growing hole the private health care system leaves behind. I wouldn't exactly call that cheap.

I meant that *I* personally don't pay very much out of pocket - less than $100/month for 2 people (well, I think that's pretty darn good). I am well aware how expensive the premiums are. My point was regarding the idea that "My health insurance is working for me so I don't want anything to change."

The remainder of your premium is coming out of your pay, too. You just don't see it.

I support UHC, so I don't quite understand why you're trying to argue with me.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I pay very little in premiums...

Between your premiums and what your employer pays on your behalf, how much does your health insurance cost per year?

For my family of three, it comes to well over 12K / year before medicare taxes and that portion of our tax dollars that go to fund the ever growing hole the private health care system leaves behind. I wouldn't exactly call that cheap.

I meant that *I* personally don't pay very much out of pocket - less than $100/month for 2 people (well, I think that's pretty darn good). I am well aware how expensive the premiums are. My point was regarding the idea that "My health insurance is working for me so I don't want anything to change."

The remainder of your premium is coming out of your pay, too. You just don't see it.

I support UHC, so I don't quite understand why you're trying to argue with me.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just trying to ascertain whether you truly believe that your current health insurance comes cheap to you.