Bush vetoes expansion of kids' health insurance program

[Peikko 1,575]

Every new wonder drug or treatment comes about from the idea that it will make money for the company

Wonder drugs possibly, but actual effective treatments come from people who have an interest/obsession in the disease/disability they want to cure. The fact is, that easily 50% of drugs are useless, in any practical sense and most people would be better off not taking anything.

One only has to look at the reality when it comes to drug companies, they are only interested in 'mass appeal' drugs. If you have an illness that is confined to a minority of people, the drug companies just don't want to know.

[GaryC 7]

That is how it may start out but when costs start to go up the government will start dictating what treatments can be given and who can have them.

Currently, these things are dictated by the insurance companies, I don't really see how much choice there is, unless one is a millionaire. Take dental insurance for example, most dental insurance is way out of wack with what the actual costs of the the work. As a result, if you are unlucky enough to have defective teeth, you are either going to have them all pulled, or mortgage your house to pay for the work to be done. That's just crazy, and that's only teeth.

But I still have the control. With the government running things I have no control. Sorry, there is just no way anyone is going to change my mind on this. The government can kiss my butt if it wants to run my health care.

[Peikko 1,575]

Profit is not the prime motivator for innovation, I have no idea why you would make that claim. Most innovation is the result of obsession, and not an obsession with money.

[GaryC 7]

Every new wonder drug or treatment comes about from the idea that it will make money for the company

Wonder drugs possibly, but actual effective treatments come from people who have an interest/obsession in the disease/disability they want to cure. The fact is, that easily 50% of drugs are useless, in any practical sense and most people would be better off not taking anything.

One only has to look at the reality when it comes to drug companies, they are only interested in 'mass appeal' drugs. If you have an illness that is confined to a minority of people, the drug companies just don't want to know.

Can you back any of that up? The drug companies are responsable for our high life expectancy. The medical research labs are also responsable. All of that is for profit. You can't name me a drug or treatment in the last 20 years that wasn't motivated by profit.

Profit is not the prime motivator for innovation, I have no idea why you would make that claim. Most innovation is the result of obsession, and not an obsession with money.

I can't see where you would think that. Profit is the prime motivator for everything.

[almaty 19]

Private companies do a much better job.yes, at having the highest prescription rate in the world and making massive profits....on people's health

Edited October 4, 2007 by almaty

[Peikko 1,575]

You have the control to say that you have the control? You have the control to change companies? Or, do you have the control to have the treatments you need at a cost you can afford?

I can't see where you would think that. Profit is the prime motivator for everything.

So, when you got married it was for profit? When you had kids it was for profit? That's just crazy. People with obsessions create things. People with obsessions are the innovators. The world doesn't just spin around money, and my world certainly doesn't

[GaryC 7]

You have the control to say that you have the control? You have the control to change companies? Or, do you have the control to have the treatments you need at a cost you can afford?

Yes to both questions. I have in the past changed jobs to get better health care. I have also paid for treatments myself when it wasn't offered.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Ok whose going to make the poll on what kind of insurance we want. Personally I'm for a plan like Canada, England, or France has. It's a shame that "the most powerful nation in the world" can't take care of their own.

Torch the insurance companies that lobby to keep it that way!

[GaryC 7]

You have the control to say that you have the control? You have the control to change companies? Or, do you have the control to have the treatments you need at a cost you can afford?

I can't see where you would think that. Profit is the prime motivator for everything.

So, when you got married it was for profit? When you had kids it was for profit? That's just crazy. People with obsessions create things. People with obsessions are the innovators. The world doesn't just spin around money, and my world certainly doesn't

I thought we were talking about innovation and invention.

[Peikko 1,575]

The point is though, that not everyone is in the position to make those kind of decisions, and not everyone ever could be. So, some people can afford to have the choice and some people can just go along with the insurance that they have because that's the best they can afford, even if it isn't what they want, and some people don't have the choice of anything and all because profit is more important than health?

[GaryC 7]

August 30, 2007

Another National Health Care System Horror Story

The lack of facilities in a national health-care system has resulted in the death of a newborn. Japan, whose system has been cited as a model for the United States to consider, has few medical facilities in their rural areas, and the lack of obstetricians led one couple to be turned away from eight hospitals when the mother-to-be went into labor:

Japan's health minister has pledged to address the shortage of doctors in the country after a woman in labour was turned away by eight hospitals.

A ninth hospital refused to admit her even after she miscarried in an ambulance and her baby died.

The woman, who was in the sixth month of her pregnancy, lived just three minutes away from a hospital.

But she was forced to travel 70km (45 miles) by ambulance looking for a facility that would admit her.

Actually, the ninth hospital initially agreed to accept the case. However, the ambulance crashed on the way, and the woman miscarried and the baby died. After they found out what happened, that hospital then refused to admit her.

It's not the first time this has happened. Last year, a pregnant woman died under similar circumstances, only in that case twenty hospitals refused to admit her. None of them had bed space available, and Japan has a nationwide shortage of physicians, particularly in specialties such as obstetrics.

Why the shortage? Specialization costs more money, and in the Japanese system, the compensation does not make it worthwhile. Overall, compensation and malpractice costs have driven people away from studying to be physicians and surgeons. This is similar to the issues that Britain has had in the transplant specialties, first reported three years ago. Viable organ donations went to waste because the UK doesn't have enough transplant surgeons.

Japan has a somewhat different system than Britain or Canada. It allows for private insurers and facilities, but the government controls the market. It regulates prices, compensation, and the manner in which insurance operates. The effect is similar to that seen in other national health-care systems, which is that health care gets rationed through a mechanism other than patient choice. The NYU study claims that Japan has twice the beds per capita rate as the US, but that hardly explains these two instances of refusals. It also notes, probably more to the point, that Japan has one of the lowest physician per capita rates among industrialized nations, and that they spend less than seven minutes on an average for patient contacts (American doctors spend over 20 minutes).

Any system that allows a woman to die because 20 hospitals refused to treat her from lack of resources has serious problems. Any system that would refuse an emergency admission for a miscarriage in progress at nine separate facilities -- with an ambulance begging for assistance -- is not a model which we want to emulate here in the US.

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/012312.php

[Peikko 1,575]

I was, you suddenly dropped in the profit is the motivation for everything bit. I had no idea what way to take that. Back on track, I am sure you and I can both think of people who have contributed to innovations in health care, and I don't think any of them would be on a drug company payroll.

[GaryC 7]

The point is though, that not everyone is in the position to make those kind of decisions, and not everyone ever could be. So, some people can afford to have the choice and some people can just go along with the insurance that they have because that's the best they can afford, even if it isn't what they want, and some people don't have the choice of anything and all because profit is more important than health?

So for the "greater good" I should accept less? Sorry, I am not buying that.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

That is how it may start out but when costs start to go up the government will start dictating what treatments can be given and who can have them.

Currently, these things are dictated by the insurance companies, I don't really see how much choice there is, unless one is a millionaire. Take dental insurance for example, most dental insurance is way out of wack with what the actual costs of the the work. As a result, if you are unlucky enough to have defective teeth, you are either going to have them all pulled, or mortgage your house to pay for the work to be done. That's just crazy, and that's only teeth.

But I still have the control. With the government running things I have no control. Sorry, there is just no way anyone is going to change my mind on this. The government can kiss my butt if it wants to run my health care.

The only thing that will ever change your mind is when private insurers will not cover any pre-existing condition and you get stuck with what you have. God forbid you'd lose your job through which you have your insurance under such circumstances. Your control goes down the drain quickly then.

[Peikko 1,575]

If you care only about yourself, and you can afford to do anything healthcare wise, then there is no reason why you would/should care about anyone else. However a lot of people are more ultruistic than that and can see that having health care for everyone is a laudable aim.