Bush vetoes expansion of kids' health insurance program

[no name 1]

One can only surmise, that CarolsM and Britty were reading an entirely different thread. Personally, I am not impressed by what you seem to think is irrefutable argument, or your 'I have said what I think and everyone else is a fool' post.

Nothing like drive-by posting. Speaks volumes.

I feel special I was allowed to hear her thoughts, don't you?

[no name 1]

I disagree with that blanket statement. Some countries may be better, but all? No.

Then why do we have the highest healthcare spending in the world?

[GaryC 7]

I disagree with that blanket statement. Some countries may be better, but all? No.

Then why do we have the highest healthcare spending in the world?

The spending may be less in other countries but the quality is also less in some of them.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The fault lies with the intention - you either believe that ALL human beings have a right to basic medical care or you don't.

So you don't believe that each human has a right to live, Charles....that's your choice. However, the reality is that emergency rooms don't turn away people because they don't have insurance...and those costs are added to the premiums that we all pay for. The reality is, we all end up paying for those who can't pay. Given that fact, I'd rather pay for cheaper, preventive care rather than emergency room bills for the uninsured.

Edited October 5, 2007 by Mister Fancypants

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

One can only surmise, that CarolsM and Britty were reading an entirely different thread. Personally, I am not impressed by what you seem to think is irrefutable argument, or your 'I have said what I think and everyone else is a fool' post.

Nothing like drive-by posting. Speaks volumes.

I feel special I was allowed to hear her thoughts, don't you?

You can hear thoughts? my goodness

[no name 1]

I disagree with that blanket statement. Some countries may be better, but all? No.

Then why do we have the highest healthcare spending in the world?

The spending may be less in other countries but the quality is also less in some of them.

In other news, the earth is round.

Tell me an 'uninsured in the US' story Gary. I'm sure you have one stored up.

Edited October 5, 2007 by devilette

[Empress of Groovy 373]

Health care in the U.S. is already "rationed," meaning there is a wait, and there are not unlimited resources. I am fortunate enough to have a generous employer-sponsored insurance plan, and I still had to wait nearly three months to see a dermatologist.

It's funny that so many people who side with the right on this issue say that they don't want to pay for "other people's care," apparently not understanding such concepts as group insurance and shared risk. If you pay an insurance premium, you're paying for the care of others. If you're part of an employer-sponsored group plan, you, who have gone to the doctor once in three years, and your coworker, who has diabetes and has had three surgeries, pay the same premium. Why aren't more people upset about that? Because that's the private model, and it seems distasteful to say, "Hey, Gina, our premiums have gone up because of you, how about $10 toward my premium?" And your insurance company will drop you as soon as you lose your job and/or can't pay the premium. Most unemployed people can't afford COBRA. I just find it weird that people who fear a "government takeover" of health care--that is, care financed (not necessarily delivered) through taxpayer funded entities that are transparent and accountable--don't have the same fear of the extremely inefficient, corrupt, profit-driven health insurance industry. In addition to paying our premiums or a portion thereof, we contribute toward Medicare, Medicaid, and myriad state and local programs, hospitals, and clinics through taxes. You could say that we're paying twice because the system is such a muddled mess.

It's also strange that so many people who don't want to pay for others' care don't make the same argument for other public services. Aren't you pissed off that your tax dollars go toward education for kids other than your own, or to fund the repair of roads you'll never drive on, or to keep books in libraries that you'll never use? Or to pay the salaries of firefighters who will never come to your house? We live in a society, and a healthy population benefits us all. It's weird that Americans are so proud of their open and free elections, yet most politicians are vilified as corrupt and self-serving. And "socialism" is such a dirty word. We are proud of our society and our connection to each other as Americans or U.S. residents, yet if it means contributing to a system that we don't benefit directly from, it's "wait! that's not my responsibility." There's a whole lot of complaining, yet voter turnout is dismal compared with other countries.

UHC is coming, and the push is going to come in equal measure from big business and popular opinion. I think that's a good thing. Dependence on a free market is wholly inappropriate when applied to health care, and the sooner people realize this in large numbers, the faster change will come.

I'll now step off my soapbox.

[GaryC 7]

I disagree with that blanket statement. Some countries may be better, but all? No.

Then why do we have the highest healthcare spending in the world?

The spending may be less in other countries but the quality is also less in some of them.

In other news, the earth is round.

Tell me an 'uninsured in the US' story Gary. I'm sure you have one stored up.

In other news the statement I disagreed with was false.

[no name 1]

I disagree with that blanket statement. Some countries may be better, but all? No.

Then why do we have the highest healthcare spending in the world?

The spending may be less in other countries but the quality is also less in some of them.

In other news, the earth is round.

Tell me an 'uninsured in the US' story Gary. I'm sure you have one stored up.

In other news the statement I disagreed with was false.

In Gary's world, perhaps.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Health care in the U.S. is already "rationed," meaning there is a wait, and there are not unlimited resources. I am fortunate enough to have a generous employer-sponsored insurance plan, and I still had to wait nearly three months to see a dermatologist.

It's funny that so many people who side with the right on this issue say that they don't want to pay for "other people's care," apparently not understanding such concepts as group insurance and shared risk. If you pay an insurance premium, you're paying for the care of others. If you're part of an employer-sponsored group plan, you, who have gone to the doctor once in three years, and your coworker, who has diabetes and has had three surgeries, pay the same premium. Why aren't more people upset about that? Because that's the private model, and it seems distasteful to say, "Hey, Gina, our premiums have gone up because of you, how about $10 toward my premium?" And your insurance company will drop you as soon as you lose your job and/or can't pay the premium. Most unemployed people can't afford COBRA. I just find it weird that people who fear a "government takeover" of health care--that is, care financed (not necessarily delivered) through taxpayer funded entities that are transparent and accountable--don't have the same fear of the extremely inefficient, corrupt, profit-driven health insurance industry. In addition to paying our premiums or a portion thereof, we contribute toward Medicare, Medicaid, and myriad state and local programs, hospitals, and clinics through taxes. You could say that we're paying twice because the system is such a muddled mess.

It's also strange that so many people who don't want to pay for others' care don't make the same argument for other public services. Aren't you pissed off that your tax dollars go toward education for kids other than your own, or to fund the repair of roads you'll never drive on, or to keep books in libraries that you'll never use? Or to pay the salaries of firefighters who will never come to your house? We live in a society, and a healthy population benefits us all. It's weird that Americans are so proud of their open and free elections, yet most politicians are vilified as corrupt and self-serving. And "socialism" is such a dirty word. We are proud of our society and our connection to each other as Americans or U.S. residents, yet if it means contributing to a system that we don't benefit directly from, it's "wait! that's not my responsibility." There's a whole lot of complaining, yet voter turnout is dismal compared with other countries.

UHC is coming, and the push is going to come in equal measure from big business and popular opinion. I think that's a good thing. Dependence on a free market is wholly inappropriate when applied to health care, and the sooner people realize this in large numbers, the faster change will come.

I'll now step off my soapbox.

Excellent post.

[no name 1]

UHC is coming, and the push is going to come in equal measure from big business and popular opinion.

Fingers crossed!

Great post, BTW.

Edited October 5, 2007 by devilette

[GaryC 7]

I disagree with that blanket statement. Some countries may be better, but all? No.

Then why do we have the highest healthcare spending in the world?

The spending may be less in other countries but the quality is also less in some of them.

In other news, the earth is round.

Tell me an 'uninsured in the US' story Gary. I'm sure you have one stored up.

In other news the statement I disagreed with was false.

In Gary's world, perhaps.

Why are you here? All you seem to do is to step into a thread and insult, berate, ridicule but never seem to try to have a civil conversation. You may not agree with what I say but you always seem to sink to the level of insults instead of conversation. Do me a favor, if you don't want to have a honest debate or have nothing of substance to add to the discussion then please just butt out. Your getting very tiresome.

[no name 1]

I disagree with that blanket statement. Some countries may be better, but all? No.

Then why do we have the highest healthcare spending in the world?

The spending may be less in other countries but the quality is also less in some of them.

In other news, the earth is round.

Tell me an 'uninsured in the US' story Gary. I'm sure you have one stored up.

In other news the statement I disagreed with was false.

In Gary's world, perhaps.

Why are you here? All you seem to do is to step into a thread and insult, berate, ridicule but never seem to try to have a civil conversation. You may not agree with what I say but you always seem to sink to the level of insults instead of conversation. Do me a favor, if you don't want to have a honest debate or have nothing of substance to add to the discussion then please just butt out. Your getting very tiresome.

Since when are you the post police? Gimme a break.

PS: It's 'you're'

Edited October 5, 2007 by devilette

[GaryC 7]

I disagree with that blanket statement. Some countries may be better, but all? No.

Then why do we have the highest healthcare spending in the world?

The spending may be less in other countries but the quality is also less in some of them.

In other news, the earth is round.

Tell me an 'uninsured in the US' story Gary. I'm sure you have one stored up.

In other news the statement I disagreed with was false.

In Gary's world, perhaps.

Why are you here? All you seem to do is to step into a thread and insult, berate, ridicule but never seem to try to have a civil conversation. You may not agree with what I say but you always seem to sink to the level of insults instead of conversation. Do me a favor, if you don't want to have a honest debate or have nothing of substance to add to the discussion then please just butt out. Your getting very tiresome.

Since when are you the post police? Gimme a break.

Give us all a break.

[featherB 1]

Health care in the U.S. is already "rationed," meaning there is a wait, and there are not unlimited resources. I am fortunate enough to have a generous employer-sponsored insurance plan, and I still had to wait nearly three months to see a dermatologist.

It's funny that so many people who side with the right on this issue say that they don't want to pay for "other people's care," apparently not understanding such concepts as group insurance and shared risk. If you pay an insurance premium, you're paying for the care of others. If you're part of an employer-sponsored group plan, you, who have gone to the doctor once in three years, and your coworker, who has diabetes and has had three surgeries, pay the same premium. Why aren't more people upset about that? Because that's the private model, and it seems distasteful to say, "Hey, Gina, our premiums have gone up because of you, how about $10 toward my premium?" And your insurance company will drop you as soon as you lose your job and/or can't pay the premium. Most unemployed people can't afford COBRA. I just find it weird that people who fear a "government takeover" of health care--that is, care financed (not necessarily delivered) through taxpayer funded entities that are transparent and accountable--don't have the same fear of the extremely inefficient, corrupt, profit-driven health insurance industry. In addition to paying our premiums or a portion thereof, we contribute toward Medicare, Medicaid, and myriad state and local programs, hospitals, and clinics through taxes. You could say that we're paying twice because the system is such a muddled mess.

It's also strange that so many people who don't want to pay for others' care don't make the same argument for other public services. Aren't you pissed off that your tax dollars go toward education for kids other than your own, or to fund the repair of roads you'll never drive on, or to keep books in libraries that you'll never use? Or to pay the salaries of firefighters who will never come to your house? We live in a society, and a healthy population benefits us all. It's weird that Americans are so proud of their open and free elections, yet most politicians are vilified as corrupt and self-serving. And "socialism" is such a dirty word. We are proud of our society and our connection to each other as Americans or U.S. residents, yet if it means contributing to a system that we don't benefit directly from, it's "wait! that's not my responsibility." There's a whole lot of complaining, yet voter turnout is dismal compared with other countries.

UHC is coming, and the push is going to come in equal measure from big business and popular opinion. I think that's a good thing. Dependence on a free market is wholly inappropriate when applied to health care, and the sooner people realize this in large numbers, the faster change will come.

I'll now step off my soapbox.

*applause*

What a very excellent post.