Bush vetoes expansion of kids' health insurance program

[britty 1]

My input for what its worth. The proposed expansion of S-CHIP to include "children" under the age of 25 is a transparent attempt by the left to introduce socialized healthcare in the US on an instalment plan. There isn't a need for parents who can afford healthcare to rely on the government to look after THEIR kids. For parents who can't afford private healthcare, then its a fact that emergency rooms across the US are required to treat patients without a means test. Our healthcare system is expensive but it is also the best in the world. If you want to reduce healthcare costs, put an end to the vultures and freeloaders that drive up malpractice insurance premiums through endless, frivolous lawsuits, and that drive good doctors out of poor areas. Once again the law of unintended consequences will mean rationed healthcare and increase the suffering of the sick and needy Politicians on the left are buying votes with what they call free healthcare, but none of us are stupid enough to not realize its funded from increased taxes on the productive and useful members of society. Go and visit your local DMV office and ask yourself whether you would want to trust your healthcare to the same government bureaucrats that reside in that cesspit.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

And as we argue about it and health care continues to be too expensive my friends child is a day closer to dieing, sounds fair to me

hes on a waiting list for a kidney, but guess what, the kids with the insurance get the kidneys first. how fair is that???

gary dont worry ill keep you update and you will be the first to know if he dies. im sure your passion for "living hard earning good" will still stay the same, but atleast ill give a rats ####### about ppl who are not as fortunate as you are.

im sorry to be bitter, but you hit me in a sore spot.

You fail to mention the 300,000 other people that are in line!

My input for what its worth. The proposed expansion of S-CHIP to include "children" under the age of 25 is a transparent attempt by the left to introduce socialized healthcare in the US on an instalment plan. There isn't a need for parents who can afford healthcare to rely on the government to look after THEIR kids. For parents who can't afford private healthcare, then its a fact that emergency rooms across the US are required to treat patients without a means test. Our healthcare system is expensive but it is also the best in the world. If you want to reduce healthcare costs, put an end to the vultures and freeloaders that drive up malpractice insurance premiums through endless, frivolous lawsuits, and that drive good doctors out of poor areas. Once again the law of unintended consequences will mean rationed healthcare and increase the suffering of the sick and needy Politicians on the left are buying votes with what they call free healthcare, but none of us are stupid enough to not realize its funded from increased taxes on the productive and useful members of society. Go and visit your local DMV office and ask yourself whether you would want to trust your healthcare to the same government bureaucrats that reside in that cesspit.

YAY!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Our healthcare system is expensive but it is also the best in the world.

The best in terms of what? What specifically makes it the best? The fact that it leaves 47 million people in the dust? The overall health situation in the US is behind that of other industrialized nations that spend less on health care than we do. How is that possible if we have the best health care system?

[Dan J 277]

Our healthcare system is expensive but it is also the best in the world.

The best in terms of what? What specifically makes it the best? The fact that it leaves 47 million people in the dust? The overall health situation in the US is behind that of other industrialized nations that spend less on health care than we do. How is that possible if we have the best health care system?

Its not the best in the world. That distinction currently belongs to Japan.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Our healthcare system is expensive but it is also the best in the world.

The best in terms of what? What specifically makes it the best? The fact that it leaves 47 million people in the dust? The overall health situation in the US is behind that of other industrialized nations that spend less on health care than we do. How is that possible if we have the best health care system?

47 million is hypothetical!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If you want to reduce healthcare costs, put an end to the vultures and freeloaders that drive up malpractice insurance premiums through endless, frivolous lawsuits, and that drive good doctors out of poor areas.

And I thought Bush signed that bill that limits the exposure of the medical professional into law years ago? Has that made your insurance premiums go down yet? I haven't noticed the decline in premiums on my end. Quite the opposite actually. How can that be?

Our healthcare system is expensive but it is also the best in the world.

The best in terms of what? What specifically makes it the best? The fact that it leaves 47 million people in the dust? The overall health situation in the US is behind that of other industrialized nations that spend less on health care than we do. How is that possible if we have the best health care system?

47 million is hypothetical!

No, it's a real number.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

If you want to reduce healthcare costs, put an end to the vultures and freeloaders that drive up malpractice insurance premiums through endless, frivolous lawsuits, and that drive good doctors out of poor areas.

And I thought Bush signed that bill that limits the exposure of the medical professional into law years ago? Has that made your insurance premiums go down yet? I haven't noticed the decline in premiums on my end. Quite the opposite actually. How can that be?

Our healthcare system is expensive but it is also the best in the world.

The best in terms of what? What specifically makes it the best? The fact that it leaves 47 million people in the dust? The overall health situation in the US is behind that of other industrialized nations that spend less on health care than we do. How is that possible if we have the best health care system?

47 million is hypothetical!

No, it's a real number.

Okay, how many of these folks are illegal? Got some numbers?

Edited October 5, 2007 by CarolsMarc

[Dan J 277]

If you want to reduce healthcare costs, put an end to the vultures and freeloaders that drive up malpractice insurance premiums through endless, frivolous lawsuits, and that drive good doctors out of poor areas.

And I thought Bush signed that bill that limits the exposure of the medical professional into law years ago? Has that made your insurance premiums go down yet? I haven't noticed the decline in premiums on my end. Quite the opposite actually. How can that be?

Our healthcare system is expensive but it is also the best in the world.

The best in terms of what? What specifically makes it the best? The fact that it leaves 47 million people in the dust? The overall health situation in the US is behind that of other industrialized nations that spend less on health care than we do. How is that possible if we have the best health care system?

47 million is hypothetical!

No, it's a real number.

Okay, how many of these folks are illegal? Got some numbers?

http://www.cbpp.org/8-29-06health.htm

Illegal immigrants cost the health care system 2.5 billion a year. Uninsured citizens and residents cost $100 billion a year.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If you want to reduce healthcare costs, put an end to the vultures and freeloaders that drive up malpractice insurance premiums through endless, frivolous lawsuits, and that drive good doctors out of poor areas.

And I thought Bush signed that bill that limits the exposure of the medical professional into law years ago? Has that made your insurance premiums go down yet? I haven't noticed the decline in premiums on my end. Quite the opposite actually. How can that be?

Our healthcare system is expensive but it is also the best in the world.

The best in terms of what? What specifically makes it the best? The fact that it leaves 47 million people in the dust? The overall health situation in the US is behind that of other industrialized nations that spend less on health care than we do. How is that possible if we have the best health care system?

47 million is hypothetical!

No, it's a real number.

Okay, how many of these folks are illegal? Got some numbers?

Even if this figure includes 12 million illegals, that would leave 35 million uninsured Americans and Lawful Residents.

That's still more than 1 out of 10. Nothing I would consider acceptable.

[eric&gen 0]

Health insurance is all screwed up lol not worth having your paying most of the bill anywho lol.

[Widge 0]

And as we argue about it and health care continues to be too expensive my friends child is a day closer to dieing, sounds fair to me

hes on a waiting list for a kidney, but guess what, the kids with the insurance get the kidneys first. how fair is that???

gary dont worry ill keep you update and you will be the first to know if he dies. im sure your passion for "living hard earning good" will still stay the same, but atleast ill give a rats ####### about ppl who are not as fortunate as you are.

im sorry to be bitter, but you hit me in a sore spot.

Thats a low blow. Just because I don't want the federal government taking over the national health care you lay that on me. Ok, in your eyes I am a heartless monster. So be it.

I'm afraid to admit this is where Rheinhard and I diverge in this thread (couldn't believe we agreed thus far lol) because I don't actually think this is a low blow. All Ionescu has done is "personalise" just one instance of the 47 million who have no health insurance at the moment. to argue that this situation is just fine because the govt isn't capable of administering it and I'm fine I can afford coverage for my family with a total disregard for others not in that comfort zone.

Even basic health insurance plans aren't worth the paper they are written on (by the time time co-pays, deductibles and exclusions and limits are taken into account) so I wonder what the true state of poor health coverage is among the middle lower income families of the US is. And to say that American Health service is the best in the world is a total joke when evidenced against the facts. One of the plusses of the VJ community is that the "America is best" attitude is usually missing due to the fact that we are all in multi cultural setups and have therfore seen beyond these shores I didn't expect that attitude here. (and before I get flamed I haven't a clue where is best I have far from experienced all the cultures of the globe so wouldn't presume to guess)

[britty 1]

And as we argue about it and health care continues to be too expensive my friends child is a day closer to dieing, sounds fair to me

hes on a waiting list for a kidney, but guess what, the kids with the insurance get the kidneys first. how fair is that???

gary dont worry ill keep you update and you will be the first to know if he dies. im sure your passion for "living hard earning good" will still stay the same, but atleast ill give a rats ####### about ppl who are not as fortunate as you are.

im sorry to be bitter, but you hit me in a sore spot.

Thats a low blow. Just because I don't want the federal government taking over the national health care you lay that on me. Ok, in your eyes I am a heartless monster. So be it.

I'm afraid to admit this is where Rheinhard and I diverge in this thread (couldn't believe we agreed thus far lol) because I don't actually think this is a low blow. All Ionescu has done is "personalise" just one instance of the 47 million who have no health insurance at the moment. to argue that this situation is just fine because the govt isn't capable of administering it and I'm fine I can afford coverage for my family with a total disregard for others not in that comfort zone.

Even basic health insurance plans aren't worth the paper they are written on (by the time time co-pays, deductibles and exclusions and limits are taken into account) so I wonder what the true state of poor health coverage is among the middle lower income families of the US is. And to say that American Health service is the best in the world is a total joke when evidenced against the facts. One of the plusses of the VJ community is that the "America is best" attitude is usually missing due to the fact that we are all in multi cultural setups and have therfore seen beyond these shores I didn't expect that attitude here. (and before I get flamed I haven't a clue where is best I have far from experienced all the cultures of the globe so wouldn't presume to guess)

If I addressed all the responses to my post then I would be typing all day, so I will address them here. Firstly, I have travelled extensively and have witnessed first hand some of the health care regimes across the globe. There are many parts of the world that I would not want to fall sick in. I also do not understand why stating "America is best" in terms of healthcare is an attitude that is not expected to be found in the US??! I am not American but yes I believe that America has the best healthcare system in the world due to its many research facilities, teaching hospitals, medial entrepreneurs, and robust, competetive environment. In socialized medicine there is no competition or no incentive. There is only rationing, which impacts the people who need healthcare the most as there is no alternative to the poorly run, inefficient, government bureaucracy. Its a myth that 47 million Americans do not have health care. There are state and federal programs that cover those unable to afford private healthcare, and as I have stated before, no one walking into an emergency room is refused treatment. Recently, in the Republic of Ireland, breast examinations were stopped due to the rationing effect of government run health care. In the US, even tiny hospitals have MRI machines. There is no waiting list for heart bypass and other critical surgeries. Cancer research and treatment in the US draws people from all over the world. In the socialized health care countries, people wait for critical surgeries, and wait even longer for things like hip and knee replacements, or other surgeries the governments call "non critical". At the end of the day someone has to pay for health care. Yes it is expensive in the US but that is becuase you are buying quality treatment. Being a UK citizen, I can testify to the shocking state of the National Health service there and all its many problems. It simply does not work so why should any similar system in the US be a roaring success? I was diagnosed with cancer last year and within 2 days I had that cancer removed and am now fine. My insurance plan was worth the paper it was written on as my personal costs haven't even reached $100.

[Sinergy 3]

And as we argue about it and health care continues to be too expensive my friends child is a day closer to dieing, sounds fair to me

hes on a waiting list for a kidney, but guess what, the kids with the insurance get the kidneys first. how fair is that???

gary dont worry ill keep you update and you will be the first to know if he dies. im sure your passion for "living hard earning good" will still stay the same, but atleast ill give a rats ####### about ppl who are not as fortunate as you are.

im sorry to be bitter, but you hit me in a sore spot.

Thats a low blow. Just because I don't want the federal government taking over the national health care you lay that on me. Ok, in your eyes I am a heartless monster. So be it.

was making a point and nothing more. its not just you dont want the fed gov to take over national health care its the other ####### you have stated in this thread. i dont think your a heartless monster, but the things you have said in this thread have put you in that catagory

as far as guilt trip, nah that wasnt what i was doing, again just showing you one situation, im very aware of the rest of the country, as far as the rest of the world, why do you think our country is the way it is with healthcare and poor and homeless, bc we focus more on outside countries and helping them than we do on our own. and yes im speaking of our precious fed gov.

Edited October 5, 2007 by Ionescu

[Sinergy 3]

And as we argue about it and health care continues to be too expensive my friends child is a day closer to dieing, sounds fair to me

hes on a waiting list for a kidney, but guess what, the kids with the insurance get the kidneys first. how fair is that???

gary dont worry ill keep you update and you will be the first to know if he dies. im sure your passion for "living hard earning good" will still stay the same, but atleast ill give a rats ####### about ppl who are not as fortunate as you are.

im sorry to be bitter, but you hit me in a sore spot.

Thats a low blow. Just because I don't want the federal government taking over the national health care you lay that on me. Ok, in your eyes I am a heartless monster. So be it.

I'm afraid to admit this is where Rheinhard and I diverge in this thread (couldn't believe we agreed thus far lol) because I don't actually think this is a low blow. All Ionescu has done is "personalise" just one instance of the 47 million who have no health insurance at the moment. to argue that this situation is just fine because the govt isn't capable of administering it and I'm fine I can afford coverage for my family with a total disregard for others not in that comfort zone.

Even basic health insurance plans aren't worth the paper they are written on (by the time time co-pays, deductibles and exclusions and limits are taken into account) so I wonder what the true state of poor health coverage is among the middle lower income families of the US is. And to say that American Health service is the best in the world is a total joke when evidenced against the facts. One of the plusses of the VJ community is that the "America is best" attitude is usually missing due to the fact that we are all in multi cultural setups and have therfore seen beyond these shores I didn't expect that attitude here. (and before I get flamed I haven't a clue where is best I have far from experienced all the cultures of the globe so wouldn't presume to guess)

If I addressed all the responses to my post then I would be typing all day, so I will address them here. Firstly, I have travelled extensively and have witnessed first hand some of the health care regimes across the globe. There are many parts of the world that I would not want to fall sick in. I also do not understand why stating "America is best" in terms of healthcare is an attitude that is not expected to be found in the US??! I am not American but yes I believe that America has the best healthcare system in the world due to its many research facilities, teaching hospitals, medial entrepreneurs, and robust, competetive environment. In socialized medicine there is no competition or no incentive. There is only rationing, which impacts the people who need healthcare the most as there is no alternative to the poorly run, inefficient, government bureaucracy. Its a myth that 47 million Americans do not have health care. There are state and federal programs that cover those unable to afford private healthcare, and as I have stated before, no one walking into an emergency room is refused treatment. Recently, in the Republic of Ireland, breast examinations were stopped due to the rationing effect of government run health care. In the US, even tiny hospitals have MRI machines. There is no waiting list for heart bypass and other critical surgeries. Cancer research and treatment in the US draws people from all over the world. In the socialized health care countries, people wait for critical surgeries, and wait even longer for things like hip and knee replacements, or other surgeries the governments call "non critical". At the end of the day someone has to pay for health care. Yes it is expensive in the US but that is becuase you are buying quality treatment. Being a UK citizen, I can testify to the shocking state of the National Health service there and all its many problems. It simply does not work so why should any similar system in the US be a roaring success? I was diagnosed with cancer last year and within 2 days I had that cancer removed and am now fine. My insurance plan was worth the paper it was written on as my personal costs haven't even reached $100.

sorry to burst your bubble, but our health care system is FAR from being the best. as your not an american, wait til you been here longer and have to actually use it.

[britty 1]

And as we argue about it and health care continues to be too expensive my friends child is a day closer to dieing, sounds fair to me

hes on a waiting list for a kidney, but guess what, the kids with the insurance get the kidneys first. how fair is that???

gary dont worry ill keep you update and you will be the first to know if he dies. im sure your passion for "living hard earning good" will still stay the same, but atleast ill give a rats ####### about ppl who are not as fortunate as you are.

im sorry to be bitter, but you hit me in a sore spot.

Thats a low blow. Just because I don't want the federal government taking over the national health care you lay that on me. Ok, in your eyes I am a heartless monster. So be it.

I'm afraid to admit this is where Rheinhard and I diverge in this thread (couldn't believe we agreed thus far lol) because I don't actually think this is a low blow. All Ionescu has done is "personalise" just one instance of the 47 million who have no health insurance at the moment. to argue that this situation is just fine because the govt isn't capable of administering it and I'm fine I can afford coverage for my family with a total disregard for others not in that comfort zone.

Even basic health insurance plans aren't worth the paper they are written on (by the time time co-pays, deductibles and exclusions and limits are taken into account) so I wonder what the true state of poor health coverage is among the middle lower income families of the US is. And to say that American Health service is the best in the world is a total joke when evidenced against the facts. One of the plusses of the VJ community is that the "America is best" attitude is usually missing due to the fact that we are all in multi cultural setups and have therfore seen beyond these shores I didn't expect that attitude here. (and before I get flamed I haven't a clue where is best I have far from experienced all the cultures of the globe so wouldn't presume to guess)

If I addressed all the responses to my post then I would be typing all day, so I will address them here. Firstly, I have travelled extensively and have witnessed first hand some of the health care regimes across the globe. There are many parts of the world that I would not want to fall sick in. I also do not understand why stating "America is best" in terms of healthcare is an attitude that is not expected to be found in the US??! I am not American but yes I believe that America has the best healthcare system in the world due to its many research facilities, teaching hospitals, medial entrepreneurs, and robust, competetive environment. In socialized medicine there is no competition or no incentive. There is only rationing, which impacts the people who need healthcare the most as there is no alternative to the poorly run, inefficient, government bureaucracy. Its a myth that 47 million Americans do not have health care. There are state and federal programs that cover those unable to afford private healthcare, and as I have stated before, no one walking into an emergency room is refused treatment. Recently, in the Republic of Ireland, breast examinations were stopped due to the rationing effect of government run health care. In the US, even tiny hospitals have MRI machines. There is no waiting list for heart bypass and other critical surgeries. Cancer research and treatment in the US draws people from all over the world. In the socialized health care countries, people wait for critical surgeries, and wait even longer for things like hip and knee replacements, or other surgeries the governments call "non critical". At the end of the day someone has to pay for health care. Yes it is expensive in the US but that is becuase you are buying quality treatment. Being a UK citizen, I can testify to the shocking state of the National Health service there and all its many problems. It simply does not work so why should any similar system in the US be a roaring success? I was diagnosed with cancer last year and within 2 days I had that cancer removed and am now fine. My insurance plan was worth the paper it was written on as my personal costs haven't even reached $100.

sorry to burst your bubble, but our health care system is FAR from being the best. as your not an american, wait til you been here longer and have to actually use it.

As stated in my post (you may have glossed over it), I HAVE used the health care system. I was treated within 2 days by a surgeon who is deemed to be the top surgeon in the area within which I reside, and who has since seen me on three further occasions, and to whom I am forever grateful as the scar on my face is barely visible. My health care insurance provided me with the best care, and the best surgeon.