Bush vetoes expansion of kids' health insurance program

[Sinergy 3]

The Democrats who control Congress, with significant support from Republicans, passed the legislation to add $35 billion over five years to allow an additional 4 million children into the program. It would be funded by raising the federal cigarette tax by 61 cents to $1 per pack.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071003/ap_on_...ildren_s_health

Socialized medicine sucks. Just a backdoor attempt to shove it down our throats. Using "children" to fool the masses is despicable.

socialize medicine does not suck..ask a retired senior citizen on medicare..who would not have any medical coverage except medicare ...

[Dan J 277]

There is a better way to pay for it, but it would likely get on the bad side of a lot of parents. Right now parents get tax deductions and credits for having kids. We can remove that and simplify the tax system, and use the difference to pay for health care and education.

yea i wouldnt go there

i dont think parents should be penalized for having kids! basically we DONT get tax breaks on ######! we have to buy more food, more clothes, more everything. theres our contribution to taxes.

Shouldn't you also be paying for any benefits the government gives to your children?

I see it this way, provide no tax benefit, but instead provide better education and health care for children. Or provide a tax benefit, but no other benefits. Giving both is basically giving incentive to parents who cant afford children to have them. Thus generating more drain on public services.

[smoke20 0]

There is a better way to pay for it, but it would likely get on the bad side of a lot of parents. Right now parents get tax deductions and credits for having kids. We can remove that and simplify the tax system, and use the difference to pay for health care and education.

yea i wouldnt go there

i dont think parents should be penalized for having kids! basically we DONT get tax breaks on ######! we have to buy more food, more clothes, more everything. theres our contribution to taxes.

all the direct results of your choices. do you get earned income credit?

[Sinergy 3]

There is a better way to pay for it, but it would likely get on the bad side of a lot of parents. Right now parents get tax deductions and credits for having kids. We can remove that and simplify the tax system, and use the difference to pay for health care and education.

yea i wouldnt go there

i dont think parents should be penalized for having kids! basically we DONT get tax breaks on ######! we have to buy more food, more clothes, more everything. theres our contribution to taxes.

Shouldn't you also be paying for any benefits the government gives to your children?

I see it this way, provide no tax benefit, but instead provide better education and health care for children. Or provide a tax benefit, but no other benefits. Giving both is basically giving incentive to parents who cant afford children to have them. Thus generating more drain on public services.

edited per TOS and will respond when i get home.

Edited October 3, 2007 by Ionescu

[smoke20 0]

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Edited October 3, 2007 by smoke20

[peejay 327]

Nobody wants to be the ogre that eats little kids. It's all well and fine to make grand proclaimations that every child on American soil deserves an abundance of food, clothing, medical care, education, and loving parents to boot.

The same goes for old folks. It's not easy to kick grandma to the curb. Surely spending a million or two to keep grandma alive for an extra 6 months is a worthy cause.

Running the governments is just like running a house...if you want to play...you gotta pay. The money has to come from somewhere. Money in and money out.

The US government (i.e.: the American people) are in debt to the tune of trillions of $$$. Look at the value of the $$$ because of it.

At what point does the rubber hit the road (i.e.: when does reality sink in?) Cutting taxes and spending like a drunken sailor for numerous years is bankrupting our country. We cannot do this forever. Guns or butter...we can't have it both ways.

And I see some on VJ that want to expand America's largess to the world...when we cannot even fund our own!

Grand proclaimations and empathy are great...but there is no such thing as a free lunch. Somebody's paying!

Guess who? I'll give you 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count. That's my 2 cents (for what it's worth).

[Sinergy 3]

There is a better way to pay for it, but it would likely get on the bad side of a lot of parents. Right now parents get tax deductions and credits for having kids. We can remove that and simplify the tax system, and use the difference to pay for health care and education.

yea i wouldnt go there

i dont think parents should be penalized for having kids! basically we DONT get tax breaks on ######! we have to buy more food, more clothes, more everything. theres our contribution to taxes.

all the direct results of your choices. do you get earned income credit?

duh...i never said i dont want to do it, but im SO SICK OF THE NON PARENT B***ING ABOUT THE THE KIDS! and wanting the parents to be punished more money wise then anyone else.

trust me, no matter what YOU or anyone else says, im not going to sit here and think its ok to tax ONLY the parents for childrens insurance. ppl are ppl, who cares who they are, i certainly didnt complain over other ppl having kids when i didnt, and im sure my mom didnt trash your mom for having you!

so lets all get over the who "you have kids and i dont so im not gonna spend my presious dollar on your brats insurance"

[Dan J 277]

There is a better way to pay for it, but it would likely get on the bad side of a lot of parents. Right now parents get tax deductions and credits for having kids. We can remove that and simplify the tax system, and use the difference to pay for health care and education.

yea i wouldnt go there

i dont think parents should be penalized for having kids! basically we DONT get tax breaks on ######! we have to buy more food, more clothes, more everything. theres our contribution to taxes.

Shouldn't you also be paying for any benefits the government gives to your children?

I see it this way, provide no tax benefit, but instead provide better education and health care for children. Or provide a tax benefit, but no other benefits. Giving both is basically giving incentive to parents who cant afford children to have them. Thus generating more drain on public services.

Benefits from the government? what benefits? the government doesnt do ###### for my kids. I DO.

im not one of those moms, and i dont think that hard working parents should be punished tax wise to pay for others kids. i do believe that EVERY child should get free medical and im sure if they stopped this war going on wed have the money to do just that.

If they want to raise tax for children insurance, im find with that, but i dont think the parents should be the only ones to pay for it. i mean one day non-parents will have kids too, and then they will benefit as well.

and what tax benefit do parents get? other than being able to claim our kids on tax season? is that whats your referring to? if it is, and you want that extra money have kids. again we pay all that out all year, i pay more in clothes, food and whatever else a year than the average non-parent, yea i dont find getting a bit back at the end of the year a crime.

They do stuff for your kids, but you take it for granted. Take a look at public education for one. It isn't free.

The money for the war, comes from selling Government bonds. In other words, we are running up a really big credit card to fund the war. That would not be sustainable for a social program.

Not everyone will have kids. Why should they pay for programs that benefit kids? They will too some extent no matter what, but they are getting a rather large share, when parents get the benefits and tax breaks for kids.

What it comes down to, is if you want the government to provide health insurance for your kids, which isn't a bad idea, you should be willing to fund it. Pay full taxes just like any other person, that way you will be paying a fairer share of the benefits your children get. Whether its education or health care.

[Dan J 277]

There is a better way to pay for it, but it would likely get on the bad side of a lot of parents. Right now parents get tax deductions and credits for having kids. We can remove that and simplify the tax system, and use the difference to pay for health care and education.

yea i wouldnt go there

i dont think parents should be penalized for having kids! basically we DONT get tax breaks on ######! we have to buy more food, more clothes, more everything. theres our contribution to taxes.

all the direct results of your choices. do you get earned income credit?

duh...i never said i dont want to do it, but im SO SICK OF THE NON PARENT B***ING ABOUT THE THE KIDS! and wanting the parents to be punished more money wise then anyone else.

trust me, no matter what YOU or anyone else says, im not going to sit here and think its ok to tax ONLY the parents for childrens insurance. ppl are ppl, who cares who they are, i certainly didnt complain over other ppl having kids when i didnt, and im sure my mom didnt trash your mom for having you!

so lets all get over the who "you have kids and i dont so im not gonna spend my presious dollar on your brats insurance"

I never said only. I said fairer. As it stands right now, the group that would benefit from children's health program, is also paying less taxes.

Being a parent does not covey special privileges on to you. You are still just as responsible for making the government work as anyone else.

[smoke20 0]

ITS A SPECIAL DAY!!!! 10/3/2007 SMOKE & DAN AGREE!!!!

[GaryC 7]

There is a better way to pay for it, but it would likely get on the bad side of a lot of parents. Right now parents get tax deductions and credits for having kids. We can remove that and simplify the tax system, and use the difference to pay for health care and education.

yea i wouldnt go there

i dont think parents should be penalized for having kids! basically we DONT get tax breaks on ######! we have to buy more food, more clothes, more everything. theres our contribution to taxes.

all the direct results of your choices. do you get earned income credit?

duh...i never said i dont want to do it, but im SO SICK OF THE NON PARENT B***ING ABOUT THE THE KIDS! and wanting the parents to be punished more money wise then anyone else.

trust me, no matter what YOU or anyone else says, im not going to sit here and think its ok to tax ONLY the parents for childrens insurance. ppl are ppl, who cares who they are, i certainly didnt complain over other ppl having kids when i didnt, and im sure my mom didnt trash your mom for having you!

so lets all get over the who "you have kids and i dont so im not gonna spend my presious dollar on your brats insurance"

I have raised a total of 5 kids now. So I think I have the right to comment here. I think socalized health care sucks. And I think that my tax money shouldn't go to pay for someone elses kids. If you want to have kids then fine, pay for it yourself. I paid for my own.

[Peikko 1,575]

What sucks about socialized health care? I am really interested in this point. Personally, I don't think anything to do with health care should be in the domain of profit. One of the things that I find most distressing is the way drugs are pedalled in the US with the seemingly inevitable, but very sad result that drug companies are being constantly sued for selling products that not only don't help the patients, but actually harm or kill them.

I realise this is a tangent to the main idea of the thread though...

[no name 1]

What sucks about socialized health care? I am really interested in this point.

I'm still waiting to hear as well. But as often is the case on VJ, people say stuff to say it. Usually nothing to back it up.

Speaking as one who has benefitted from it, I can hardly wait to hear why.

[Cantankerous 0]

SCHIP spent what, something like $24 Billion over the past 10 years? Now the complaint is that it needs to be $60 Billion as the additonal $5 Billion the Administration offered isn't good enough.

How about $25 Billion re-authorized and maybe $25 Billion on Birth Control for low income families? That'll save $10 Billion from this convesation and I wonder how much more without all those low income children sucking the life out of the system?

I can't decide if I really mean this or if I just thought of this becuase I'm in a rotten mood right now... Maybe I'll just wait and see how bad I get flamed and then decide if I meant it or not... seems to be the way to respond as to what you really meant these days...

[Dan J 277]

What sucks about socialized health care? I am really interested in this point.

I'm still waiting to hear as well. But as often is the case on VJ, people say stuff to say it. Usually nothing to back it up.

Speaking as one who has benefitted from it, I can hardly wait to hear why.

I have no problem with it, but with this plan in particular, I have an issue with how its funded.